Bucketology

[jmbgeg]

Bucket price ranges get a lot of attention on the board. I just got reminded how important timing is in getting low bucket prices on accomodations on long distance trains (the EB in this case).

After passing on a Labor Day Weekend trip because I did not like the sleeper pricing and hotel rooms were scarce, I have been thinking about a SPK-SEA RT in early October. Yesterday morning I started my price research and found deluxe sleepers at $194 each way (low bucket) on my chosen travel dates. Still, I was only 80% decided I wanted to make the trip. I got home yesterday afternoon with an hour to spare before I had to leave for a local river cruise. I was rushed, but stopped and made my reservation on Amtrak.

Now, about 10 hours later, just for sport, I checked to see what deluxe rooms were pricing at after I had purchased my ticket. The accomodations that were $388 yesterday afternoon are now $666; 72% higher. I would have been kicking myself if I had waited until this morning to make my reservation.

As I have readily observed before, even brief procastination can cost you, and when talking about sleeper accomodations, the percentages translate into real money.

 

[Bill631]

I agree that if you are planning a trip on Amtrak, you should grab up a low fare as soon as you find it. Fares can change suddenly. Usually, one can get the best fare by booking early.

However, I do not thnk that it a hard and fast rule that Amtrak steadily raises the fares on trips as the departure date gets closer. I would guess that it is more of a supply and demand type of thing.

Meaning, if a train is not at all full, they keep the fares low, but if the train is heavily booked they raise the fares. Can anyone else clarify this? I have often gotten the lowest fare bucket by booking just days before departure.

I take Amtrak several times a year, on the same few trains. I frequently check the sleeper fares on these trains (Crescent, TX Eagle, Lakeshore Ltd.) even if I am not planning a current trip. By doing this, I am familiar with the fares, and thus, when I am ready to book a trip, I will know what is a good fare and what is not.

Bill

 

[AlanB]

Bill,

Revenue management can indeed drop the prices of rooms if they don't feel that enough are selling, so that is one way to hit a low bucket room close to the departure date. A second way is thanks to how ARROW (Amtrak's computer system) works. Amtrak actually assigns each room to a bucket for that particular train and date. If someone books a low bucket room 2 days after they go on sale, and then cancels that reservation 2 weeks before departure, that room goes back into inventory at the low bucket price without regard for where the rest of the empty rooms are in price.

Once that low bucket room resells, then prices jump back up to the current bucket level.

 

[Shanghai]

I'm traveling from New York to Dallas next week. When I booked the trip, I could not get a roomette from Chicago to Dallas (TE) and from Chicago to New York (LSL). I was able to get a lower rate on the Cardinal from NYP to CHI and a roomette from DAL to CHI (TE). I kept checking online and found a roomette became available on the LSL from CHI to NYP - at low bucket rate. I called Amtrak and was able to change my reservation for the roomette. About one week ago, I checked again and found I could bet a roomette from CHI to DAL and had my reservation changed. The Amtrak representative told me there were 5 roomettes available on the TE. She thought there was group cancellation that freed up the accommodations.

 

[jmbgeg]

Bill,
Revenue management can indeed drop the prices of rooms if they don't feel that enough are selling, so that is one way to hit a low bucket room close to the departure date. A second way is thanks to how ARROW (Amtrak's computer system) works. Amtrak actually assigns each room to a bucket for that particular train and date. If someone books a low bucket room 2 days after they go on sale, and then cancels that reservation 2 weeks before departure, that room goes back into inventory at the low bucket price without regard for where the rest of the empty rooms are in price.

Once that low bucket room resells, then prices jump back up to the current bucket level.

I have benefited from others' "catch and release" several times, where they reserve or buy a low bucket room and then cancel close to the travel date.

Others should also keep in mind that if prices drop after you ticket a room, you can reticket and get a refund.

 

[railiner]

Bill,
Revenue management can indeed drop the prices of rooms if they don't feel that enough are selling, so that is one way to hit a low bucket room close to the departure date. A second way is thanks to how ARROW (Amtrak's computer system) works. Amtrak actually assigns each room to a bucket for that particular train and date. If someone books a low bucket room 2 days after they go on sale, and then cancels that reservation 2 weeks before departure, that room goes back into inventory at the low bucket price without regard for where the rest of the empty rooms are in price.

Once that low bucket room resells, then prices jump back up to the current bucket level.

While this system of revenue management may sometimes result in such lucky purchases, I'm sorry to learn that Amtrak hasn't modernized its now ancient Arrow programming to be more efficient and consistent. I suppose that the old system of coach inventory still prevails, in that if say there is no coach space from say station 'A' to station'C' on a long distance train, you can sometimes still book space by segmenting into 'A' to 'B', and then 'B' to 'C'?

 

[sky12065]

Bucket price ranges get a lot of attention on the board. I just got reminded how important timing is in getting low bucket prices on accomodations on long distance trains (the EB in this case).
After passing on a Labor Day Weekend trip because I did not like the sleeper pricing and hotel rooms were scarce, I have been thinking about a SPK-SEA RT in early October. Yesterday morning I started my price research and found deluxe sleepers at $194 each way (low bucket) on my chosen travel dates. Still, I was only 80% decided I wanted to make the trip. I got home yesterday afternoon with an hour to spare before I had to leave for a local river cruise. I was rushed, but stopped and made my reservation on Amtrak.

Now, about 10 hours later, just for sport, I checked to see what deluxe rooms were pricing at after I had purchased my ticket. The accomodations that were $388 yesterday afternoon are now $666; 72% higher. I would have been kicking myself if I had waited until this morning to make my reservation.

As I have readily observed before, even brief procastination can cost you, and when talking about sleeper accomodations, the percentages translate into real money.

You're not just whistling Dixie when you say "procastination can cost you!"

I remember back in '03 when I contacted Amtrak and got a price for an H room from ALB to Reno. I got the price but didn't reserve. I want to talk to my wife about it first. So I discontinued the call, talked to my wife and called back 5 minutes later. THE PRICE WENT UP! SAY WHAT? That's right, five minutes and the price went up! Unbelievable!!! But that's the was it is. C'est La Vie! I've also had it work the other way too. Call back within minutes and the price went down! Go figure!

As for your situation, you know there is the possibility that the bucket went up based on your reservation? If you didn't make it the first day, it may have still been the $338. But, you'll never know for sure.

As the Traveler would say... (even if he wouldn't) Book early! Book frequently!

 

[alanh]

I suppose that the old system of coach inventory still prevails, in that if say there is no coach space from say station 'A' to station'C' on a long distance train, you can sometimes still book space by segmenting into 'A' to 'B', and then 'B' to 'C'?

This is definitely true for combined trains -- if you're going from ELP-LAX, you might get a ticket on the Sunset Limited ELP-TUS, and on the Texas Eagle TUS-LAX, even if there was no ELP-LAX single ticket. Even for a single ticket it's worthwhile pricing it out on "both" trains, as one may be cheaper in coach and the other cheaper in a sleeper.

 

[jmbgeg]

Bucket price ranges get a lot of attention on the board. I just got reminded how important timing is in getting low bucket prices on accomodations on long distance trains (the EB in this case).
After passing on a Labor Day Weekend trip because I did not like the sleeper pricing and hotel rooms were scarce, I have been thinking about a SPK-SEA RT in early October. Yesterday morning I started my price research and found deluxe sleepers at $194 each way (low bucket) on my chosen travel dates. Still, I was only 80% decided I wanted to make the trip. I got home yesterday afternoon with an hour to spare before I had to leave for a local river cruise. I was rushed, but stopped and made my reservation on Amtrak.

Now, about 10 hours later, just for sport, I checked to see what deluxe rooms were pricing at after I had purchased my ticket. The accomodations that were $388 yesterday afternoon are now $666; 72% higher. I would have been kicking myself if I had waited until this morning to make my reservation.

As I have readily observed before, even brief procastination can cost you, and when talking about sleeper accomodations, the percentages translate into real money.

You're not just whistling Dixie when you say "procastination can cost you!"

I remember back in '03 when I contacted Amtrak and got a price for an H room from ALB to Reno. I got the price but didn't reserve. I want to talk to my wife about it first. So I discontinued the call, talked to my wife and called back 5 minutes later. THE PRICE WENT UP! SAY WHAT? That's right, five minutes and the price went up! Unbelievable!!! But that's the was it is. C'est La Vie! I've also had it work the other way too. Call back within minutes and the price went down! Go figure!

As for your situation, you know there is the possibility that the bucket went up based on your reservation? If you didn't make it the first day, it may have still been the $338. But, you'll never know for sure.

As the Traveler would say... (even if he wouldn't) Book early! Book frequently!

I do assume that my reservation was the tipping point. With my luck, had I waited, someone else would have taken the last low bucket fares and I would have paid the higher price.

 

[the_traveler]

Even for a single ticket it's worthwhile pricing it out on "both" trains, as one may be cheaper in coach and the other cheaper in a sleeper.

Last month, I had to buy a ticket from LAX to ONA (Ontario, CA) so I could get my AGR award to use the TE to CHI (and beyond )! The fare on the TE was $19, the fare on the SL was $10! Guess which "train" I took LAX-ONA to "connect" to the TE? :huh:

 

[the_traveler]

As the Traveler would say... (even if he wouldn't) Book early! Book frequently!

I just book frequently - especially to PDX! :lol:

 

[sky12065]

As the Traveler would say... (even if he wouldn't) Book early! Book frequently!

I just book frequently - especially to PDX! :lol:

Everyone see why I had to put in the disclaimer "(even if he wouldn't)? Dave, you're getting too predictable!

 

[the_traveler]

Everyone see why I had to put in the disclaimer "(even if he wouldn't)? Dave, you're getting too predictable!

Hey - I DO change every so often! My next trip is to Portland, Maine - not Portland, Oregon! :lol:

 

[Green Maned Lion]

$666? That's a devilish price increase. Truly satanical.

 

[jmbgeg]

$666? That's a devilish price increase. Truly satanical.

I held off on that reference but you are exactly right. I could assume it would be one "hell" of a trip.

 

[DowneasterPassenger]

An older fellow on the train told me that in the pre-Amtrak days, ticket price was based solely on distance traveled. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

 

[RTOlson]

Apparently that is true, when the railroads (and specifically passenger rail) were under the oversight of the Interstate Commerce Commission.

Here's what NARP wrote:

August 1920 – With ICC approval, railroads increased one-way fare from 3.0 to 3.6 cents per passenger-mile, and reimposed the Pullman surcharge that USRA had briefly applied during World War I (about 0.5 cents a passenger-mile) going to the railroads.

In 2009 dollars, that's a fee increase from 32¢ to 38¢ per mile.

Of course, if those rates were valid, a trip from Chicago to the Bay Area would cost about $85.33 -- more than $920 in today's dollars.

While pushing for a fare schedule that is fair to all is desirable, I can see how this specific rate structure could easily become outpaced by competition (likewise for the freight industry).

Edit - Doing some more Googling, it seems like the ICC rates were the maximum that a railroad could charge a passenger. A lengthy Time article from 1936 notes the impact a rate change would have on the Pennsylvania Railroad.

True, the Pennsylvania did not actually get 3.6¢ a mile from each customer, as the 3.6¢ rate represented a standard from which large reductions were commonly made. Actual 1935 revenue per passenger per mile was 2.69¢.*

At the time of that article, the ICC had ordered the maximum rates to be cut to 2¢ per mile for coach and 3¢ for Pullmans. In 2009 dollars, that's 31¢/mi. coach and 46¢/mi. Pullman. So, it would seem that the ICC cut rates below 1920 levels.