Cafe space in Seattle's King Street Station for rent, finally

[CHamilton]

News from Seattle Mayor Ed Murray's State of the City speech.

SDOT and our offices of Economic Development and Arts & Culture have worked together on a plan to make the currently-empty upper floors of King Street Station available as new public space for Seattle’s arts and culture community, and affordable space for our small businesses.
Not only does this create more opportunities for our local artists, it gives thousands of commuters, neighbors and visitors access to Seattle’s arts scene and local businesses in a completely new way."

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2713958/2016-State-of-the-City.pdf

 

[Bob Dylan]

Any word on a Lounge for King Street Station Charlie?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Any word on a Lounge for King Street Station Charlie?

Sounds like it will become some sort of local art display rather than anything connected to actual transportation.

 

[seat38a]

I've only been to/through SEA a few times, so I'm not all that familiar with the station and layout. I remember thinking that it looked like the Amtrak and Sounder platforms were completely separate, but figured I must have just been missing some easy connection.

What's the story or history there? Was the Sounder platform added (or, if pre-existing but unused, rehabilitated) specifically for Sounder service and never used prior to that for Amtrak service? Was there a connection from it to the station building, either at-grade or above/below the tracks?

I believe the Sounder platform was added specifically for Sounder service, and I think it started with only the northern access point -- I may be wrong. Amtrak was *already operating at the time*.
If I remember correctly, the big fancy pedestrian overbridge was later added at the south side, but it carefully avoided having any access to the Amtrak platforms. This was the really bizarre move.

Well bizarre when you look at it from a global perspective... but it's not that bizarre coming from Amtrak who so tightly controls access to its platforms we have invented terms like "gate dragon" and "kindergarten walk" to describe it.

And on the opposite end of the spectrum, we have LA Union Station, which is just wide open for anyone to come and go. No lining up or kindergarten walk. I really hate the San Diego model, of everyone lining up 15-20 min before boarding outside exposed to the elements (It does rain in CA **sometimes**).

 

[neroden]

LA (the way they handle most trains, NOT the weird "boarding pass" nonsense for the Surfliners) should be the model for all stations.

 

[seat38a]

LA (the way they handle most trains, NOT the weird "boarding pass" nonsense for the Surfliners) should be the model for all stations.

What boarding pass for the Surfliner? You, just walk up to platform and board, and take any empty seat.

 

[zephyr17]

There was a connecting tunnel walkway under 4th Ave S (4th Ave S. is essentially a viaduct there, although it does not look like it) between King Street and Union stations, I wish I remember where I saw the diagrams with that, they were published somewhere. You had to cross tracks.

The Sounder platform is at the location of an original platform, IIRC. You had to walk across the tracks to get to it then. That access was not kept when they refurbished that platform for the Sounders (it was disused). So there is no direct connection between that platform and the station proper, you need to use the Weller St. pedestrian overpass and walk through the parking lot as was previously described. I think they did not want people crossing tracks when they did redesign. King Street never had walkway over the tracks or a tunnel for track access (until the Weller St. overpass) you just walked across (live) tracks. It is similar to Portland in that way.

 

[D T Nelson]

Any word on a Lounge for King Street Station Charlie?

Sounds like it will become some sort of local art display rather than anything connected to actual transportation.

There were never plans for a lounge. During the renovation the city was always talking about renting the second and third floors to businesses or restaurants -- all the renderings showed part of the be-graveled bum hangout facing Jackson Street as an outdoor dining area -- but they have obviously given up trying to find a paying customer for those spaces and are giving it over to the "arts community," as if we didn't have enough of our property handed over to them already. One hopes if someone shows up later with cash in hand the artists will be kicked out. And, as I understand it, if Amtrak wanted to use any of these spaces as a lounge they would have to pay rent to the city just as any other business would.

 

[niemi24s]

Well bizarre when you look at it from a global perspective... but it's not that bizarre coming from Amtrak who so tightly controls access to its platforms we have invented terms like "gate dragon" and "kindergarten walk" to describe it.

How much of that tight control is the result of the tendency of some Americans to live off the proceeds of wrongful injury suits? Remember the hot coffee at McDonalds deal some years back? After all, we probably have more lawyers per capita than anyplace else on Earth: http://www.answers.com/Q/What_country_in_the_world_has_most_lawyers_per_capita

 

[neroden]

The hot coffee case was a case of criminal negligence by McDonalds, who was delivering coffee at 190 degrees, which caused third degree burns. It's normal to serve coffee at 140 degrees. 155 degrees will consistently avoid serious burns.

The plaintiff basically got her medical bills and cost of suing paid.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

After the case was filed, McDonalds promptly reduced coffee temperature to 158.

Amtrak's behavior has absolutely nothing to do with fear of liability. You can tell this because *at most stations they just let people walk out onto the platform*. Until recently, they let people wander out onto gravel *with no platform* at some locations. They make people walk across active railroad tracks to board trains at other locations. Amtrak only applies its insane gate control at a few arbitrarily-chosen stations. That wouldn't give them any defense against liability.

 

[Ryan]

Also, she originally only asked McDonalds for $20,000 to cover her actual medical bills. It wasn't until it went to trial and the jury was so appalled at McDonald's misconduct that they slapped a few million in punitive damages on top.

The whole thing is a fascinating story, including the part where it's been turned into some kind of folk story about lawyers run amok by folks that are painfully unaware of the true facts of the case.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Remember the hot coffee at McDonalds deal some years back?

The real story behind the Liebeck v. McDonald's case is how easy it is to spoon feed uneducated people intentional misinformation in order to use their confirmation bias and low effort reasoning against them. Many people already know how the case helped sell the anti-consumer tort reform movement to an amazingly supportive and clueless electorate, but not everyone realizes that it also helped pave the way for the predigested partisan news movement that continues to this very day.

 

[fairviewroad]

At any rate, I think we can all agree that we don't want a McDonalds in King Street Station.

 

[Bob Dylan]

At any rate, I think we can all agree that we don't want a McDonalds in King Street Station.

But a Starbucks is OK right?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The question is why there has never been a Starbucks in that building before?

 

[neroden]

I think the spaces on the upper floors were once used as office space for the Great Northern and Northern Pacific Railroads.

Also the SP&S and some other long-forgotten railroads. The legal arrangements were pretty complicated back then.

 

[neroden]

LA (the way they handle most trains, NOT the weird "boarding pass" nonsense for the Surfliners) should be the model for all stations.

What boarding pass for the Surfliner? You, just walk up to platform and board, and take any empty seat.

Oh, they got rid of it? Good.

 

[rickycourtney]

Seattle mayor plans to open top floors of King Street Station

In Mayor Ed Murray's State of the City address on Tuesday, he announced plans to open the top floors of King Street Station to artists and small businesses.

The 17,000-square-foot space will be managed by the city's office of art and culture.

The city purchased the station in 2008 from BNSF railroad for $10. It paid tens of million of dollars for a major remodel.

Initially, the city hoped to lease the second and third floors to commercial developers, such as offices, restaurants or shops -- but there were no takers.

Tenants were discouraged by the high costs of customization required to turn giant empty floors into usable office space, said Randy Engstrom, art and culture director.

That's when Mayor Murray visited the third floor when it happened to be used for a one-time art exhibit.

The mayor decided the art and culture office could rent the space from the city's transportation department, which officially managed the building, for around $400,000 a year -- money partially funded by the admissions tax.

The city plans to open the space to artists, exhibitors and other cultural or performance venues in 2017.

It hopes hundreds of thousands of visitors will enjoy the space and "trickle down" to the second floor, which is also looking for paying tenants.

There's nice video of the space along with a look at the artwork being created there in article I linked to.

 

[Skyline]

Any word on a Lounge for King Street Station Charlie?

Sounds like it will become some sort of local art display rather than anything connected to actual transportation.

There were never plans for a lounge. During the renovation the city was always talking about renting the second and third floors to businesses or restaurants -- all the renderings showed part of the be-graveled bum hangout facing Jackson Street as an outdoor dining area -- but they have obviously given up trying to find a paying customer for those spaces and are giving it over to the "arts community," as if we didn't have enough of our property handed over to them already. One hopes if someone shows up later with cash in hand the artists will be kicked out. And, as I understand it, if Amtrak wanted to use any of these spaces as a lounge they would have to pay rent to the city just as any other business would.

Is there something wrong with there being an "arts community?" In my opinion, the existence of a vibrant, diverse arts scene is what makes some cities great and not so mundane.

If they can find paying permanent tenants -- great. Or maybe make it mixed use (part for traditional tenants, part for something more festive). If not, the space will continue being unused. No one wins with that.

Here's an idea: Charge each artist or group that wants to use a small piece of the space a modest fee per day, week, or month.