California Zephyr #5 Incident

[TexRail]

The #5 that left Chicago Friday had a run in with a boulder near the Moffat Tunnel. I am now on that same train as the return #6 and it left over 3 hrs late out of Emeryville. We have a UP engine leading with a Genesis behind it because the lead westbound Amtrak engine was either destroyed or will at least be out of commission for a while. An employee told us that they were on that train and the collision resulted in a 10 hr delay. I am unsure if the boulder fell on the tracks and the train hit it or if the boulder hit the engine as it fell. The former seems far more likely. Anyone know if Amtrak crews drive the UP engines when these things happen or do the UP crews handle it? Just as pilots are not rated for every type of aircraft, I wonder if it is the same for engineers.

Also, there are 2 Genesis engines that appear to be ready to go in a strange area on the CZ route. The engines are in the middle of the Rockies on a siding between the small towns of Bond and Kremmling, CO. and they have been there at least 2 days. I'm curious to know why they are just sitting there. There is not a yard or maintenace facility there as far as I could tell and it is a tight fit as it is just getting the regular through traffic through those canyons along the river. Seems like they could have been used instead of this UP locomotive that might be costing Amtrak a fortune in rental fees (I think there is some tension between Amtrak and UP anyway).

 

[Acela150]

It should be UP engineers. Now as far as the P40/42's sitting in the middle of no mans land... It could be that they are waiting to be put onto your #6. But IIRC the stand by point is DEN. So this doesn't make any sense. Unless there's a wye in that area where the units could be turned and readied for #6. Just an idea.

 

[TexRail]

It should be UP engineers. Now as far as the P40/42's sitting in the middle of no mans land... It could be that they are waiting to be put onto your #6. But IIRC the stand by point is DEN. So this doesn't make any sense. Unless there's a wye in that area where the units could be turned and readied for #6. Just an idea.

Well we passed the 2 engines twice on the east and westbound CZ so they weren't for us and I can't imagine them keeping 2 presumably good engines over there for too long, especially since Amtrak is down one fairly new locomotive for the time being after meeting a boulder.

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

Ever think that those two engines might be the two engines that were disabled during the boulder strike?

 

[TexRail]

Ever think that those two engines might be the two engines that were disabled during the boulder strike?

I doubt that is the case. The Moffat Tunnel is quite a distance from where these 2 engines are located and the incident occurred near one of the portals, not sure which one. Denver would be much closer.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Ever think that those two engines might be the two engines that were disabled during the boulder strike?

I doubt that is the case. The Moffat Tunnel is quite a distance from where these 2 engines are located and the incident occurred near one of the portals, not sure which one. Denver would be much closer.

Someone said the train crawled 12 miles to a siding...could this be the siding?

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

Check this thread for more info: http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/45654-cz-vs-rocky-mountains/

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

I saw the two Genesis units today as well, and they are definitely in a strange spot. They're sitting back to back, and didn't look visibly damaged though we did pass them quickly. Would be interesting to find out their story.

 

[TexRail]

Ever think that those two engines might be the two engines that were disabled during the boulder strike?

I doubt that is the case. The Moffat Tunnel is quite a distance from where these 2 engines are located and the incident occurred near one of the portals, not sure which one. Denver would be much closer.

Someone said the train crawled 12 miles to a siding...could this be the siding?

No, these two engines are a lot more than 12 miles away from the Moffat Tunnel. I checked my GPS as we passed them. Almost exactly between Bond and Kremmling from my estimation which is between Granby and Glenwood Springs stations.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=bond,+colorado&gs_upl=2111l8076l0l8321l16l13l1l0l0l0l1091l3265l5-1.2.1l5l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1600&bih=752&wrapid=tlif132745166440510&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x8741e306f3c119e1:0xae9a2bbf3b8bdee7,Bond,+CO&gl=us&ei=G04fT6H6DObr0QHK170H&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=2&ved=0CCcQ8gEwAQ

 

[Trogdor]

#5 hits a boulder in the middle of the Rockies and has to set out its two engines due to flat spots.

People report seeing two engines on a random siding in the middle of the Rockies.

It can't seriously be that hard to put two and two together.

 

[Blackwolf]

So, since we can pretty much be sure where the two locomotives came from, what happens next? When a situation where flat spots have occurred in a very remote and mountainous location, how do these locomotives get fixed? Does Amtrak need to crane them onto flatbed cars and then ship them somewhere, like Beach Grove, for repair? :blink:

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

Ever think that those two engines might be the two engines that were disabled during the boulder strike?

I doubt that is the case. The Moffat Tunnel is quite a distance from where these 2 engines are located and the incident occurred near one of the portals, not sure which one. Denver would be much closer.

Someone said the train crawled 12 miles to a siding...could this be the siding?

No, these two engines are a lot more than 12 miles away from the Moffat Tunnel. I checked my GPS as we passed them. Almost exactly between Bond and Kremmling from my estimation which is between Granby and Glenwood Springs stations.

http://maps.google.c...ved=0CCcQ8gEwAQ

Well, checking the Amtrak status maps page for train 5 of January 19:

* GRA * * 2 1037A * 1136A Departed: 59 minutes late. * GSC * * 2 153P * 1127P Departed: 9 hours and 34 minutes late.

It sure looks like something happened somewhere between Granby and Glenwood Springs, which is curiously close to where you saw those two random engines hanging out.

 

[Trogdor]

So, since we can pretty much be sure where the two locomotives came from, what happens next? When a situation where flat spots have occurred in a very remote and mountainous location, how do these locomotives get fixed? Does Amtrak need to crane them onto flatbed cars and then ship them somewhere, like Beach Grove, for repair? :blink:

Probably get a new set of wheels and some mechanical personnel sent out to the location and get the repairs done right there. Or, at the very least, get it so that the engines can move dead in a freight train to the nearest suitable repair facility.

If the only problem is flat wheels, no need to go to Beech Grove.

 

[AlanB]

If the only problem is flat wheels, no need to go to Beech Grove.

Just send out a couple of burly guys with a really big bicycle pump. :lol:

Seriously though, I'm trying to envision how one ends up with flat spots on the wheels of both locos, but no cars. Doesn't really make sense to me.

 

[VentureForth]

So it sounds like, and the schedule seems to reflect that, the incident happened in Gore Canyon rather than at Moffat Tunnel.

I didn't know UP had power with HEP.

 

[TexRail]

So it sounds like, and the schedule seems to reflect that, the incident happened in Gore Canyon rather than at Moffat Tunnel.

I didn't know UP had power with HEP.

Yeah, the evidence does look that way. I spoke with the SCA while in Frasier and she was very specific and even told us where to look as we passed the scene of the accident. She might have been mistaken because it is a very long stretch of track between the Moffat Tunnel and the two lonely locomotives.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Update: AMTKs 23 and 60 hitched a ride with the UP and got into Denver last night. Flat wheel damage was not as serious as originally thought. Both locomotives were idling in DEN this morning and are heading out tonight (presumably to CHI), according to Denver mechanical.

 

[The Chief]

FRA (and most RRs) has speed rules for loco's measured flat spots.

Flat spots occur for many reasons: brake lock; dry wheels initial contact with damp or wet rail, or oils / grease; axle hanging; wheels contacting autumn-winter leaves, conifer and pine needles (decomposition makes them all sludge-like); heavy brake use in mountains; etc. Host railroads (especially back East) spend a lot of time and money cleaning leaves off rails and I think the Brits even developed a laser car to handle the chore.

A 1-inch or smaller flat spot on a wheel "out of round" is OK for normal speed. But the ruled speed limits decrease exponentially with just a little more flat-spot size. For instance a wheel with over 2-inches flat spot requires loco set-out, then after inspection and reporting up the chain (dispatcher and mechanical dept. manager), allows movement of 10 mph (1 1/2- to 2-inches = 25 mph; 1- to 1 1/2= 40 mph).

Wheels with flat spots not only make noise, but can shatter themselves, or batter / break the rail. Wheels can be replaced in the boonies on a siding using a big highway/hi-rail wheel changer truck and crew. Many wheels are repaired in shop with wheel truing machines. True that.