California Zephyr

[catblue]

I recently rode the California Zephyr and was surprised at how dirty the food areas were. Most especially the Café Car. I was sitting in the front of the Café Car on the booth that the seat backs up to the window. I looked over the top of the seat to the space between the window and the back of the seat and was appalled. All I can say is EWWWWWWW Gross!!

It was evident that it had not been cleaned in ages. I don't mean a few crumbs and a little dirt. There was a ton of crumbs and grime down there.

I am glad I was traveling first class and not taking my meals in the Café Car. The Dinning Lounge was a little cleaner than the Café Car but by no means real clean.

I have to say the attendant in the Café car was a very nice and helpful person with a great sense of humor. Sorry I don't remember his name. I don't blame him in any way for the lack of cleanliness. I feel this falls on the cleaning crew at the Amtrak Yard.

Why is this acceptable?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Do you mean the diner or the Sightseer Lounge café?

When I was on the CZ this June the Diner was pretty dingy... I didn't much care though. I guess I didn't think about it--

 

[cpamtfan]

I recently rode the California Zephyr and was surprised at how dirty the food areas were. Most especially the Café Car. I was sitting in the front of the Café Car on the booth that the seat backs up to the window. I looked over the top of the seat to the space between the window and the back of the seat and was appalled. All I can say is EWWWWWWW Gross!!
It was evident that it had not been cleaned in ages. I don't mean a few crumbs and a little dirt. There was a ton of crumbs and grime down there.

I am glad I was traveling first class and not taking my meals in the Café Car. The Dinning Lounge was a little cleaner than the Café Car but by no means real clean.

I have to say the attendant in the Café car was a very nice and helpful person with a great sense of humor. Sorry I don't remember his name. I don't blame him in any way for the lack of cleanliness. I feel this falls on the cleaning crew at the Amtrak Yard.

Why is this acceptable?

It is accepted because it isn't hurting anyone or anything. Look, if you like total cleanliness, any public place will have it exceptions. The crews do clean (vacume, spruce up bathrooms, etc.) in yards, but the places where you were looking are only cleaned during an overhaul at Beech Grove shops. Overhauls only happen every few months/years, so this car may not have been in a while. Coach pax CAN eat in the diner, not just the cafe. You've just got to let this situation go, not every place you go will be totally perfect, and a food service cars serve food, people make messes+sometimes not cleaning up=what you saw.

 

[cpamtfan]

Do you mean the diner or the Sightseer Lounge café?
When I was on the CZ this June the Diner was pretty dingy... I didn't much care though. I guess I didn't think about it--

Probably sightseers lounge with upper level tables. The diner, along with the rest, are due in for overhauls in the next few years.

 

[catblue]

I was speaking of the lower level of the Sightseer Lounge where the café is.

cpamtfan I guess what might be acceptable to some is not acceptable to others. I know passengers can eat wherever they want but there are people who don't want to pay the prices in the dinning car and therefor eat in the café and might want a clean place to eat. I was not expecting "perfect" but I was not expecting to see what I saw either. This was not a "little mess" and I was not looking in hidden places.

Sorry but I think they can and should do better.

 

[sunchaser]

Catblue, I agree with you. When the cleaning is done, where ever & whoever does it should make an effort to at least try to wipe those areas down. I realize most of the time the attendant may not have time to clean it regularly, but once a trip wouldn't hurt. They must have some down time to do stuff like that. When I used to waitress, that's what we would do, clean/scrub when we weren't busy.

 

[Trainmans daughter]

Yep. I agree with Catblue and Sunchaser. Places where food is served must be clean. The "overhaul at Beech Grove" doesn't cut it. Even when I go to McDonalds for a cheap Happy Meal, I expect to eat in a clean environment. Is simple cleanliness too much to ask on the cafe car?

 

[AlanB]

Actually cpamtfan, cars don't need to go to Beech Grove for an overhaul to get the kind of cleaning that would be needed to solve the issue raised by Catblue. I'm not sure if any other yards are setup to do a deep cleaning, although I suspect that Chicago must be setup and I believe that Hialeah is too because of the Viewliners (perhaps Bear or Sunnyside do the Amfleets), but LA definitely has the facility and ability to do a deep cleaning.

Those on last October's Gathering in LA got to see first hand a PPC receiving just such a cleaning. They actually have a line setup there that has 4 or 5 tracks to it, where cars are deep cleaned. The process actually starts with one big fan being setup at one end of the upper level at the door, and another at one of the lower level entry doors. A crew person in a special suit with oxygen walks into the car via the side door with a high pressure air hose and the fan is pushed back into place. Once on the upper level, both fans are turned on and that crew member proceeds to basically blast every nook and cranny with the high pressure air hose to blow all the dust, dirt, and other stuff not already picked up by hand down the car, downstairs, and out the side door where the fan is pulling the air out of the car. And of course the upper level fan is blowing air into the car, in effect creating a quasi vacuum.

They even drop the ceiling panels for this, so as to get all the dirt out of the AC ducts that run through the roof of the car. After that step is complete, several more steps are taken, include washing floor, deep cleaning carpets, replacing worn out cushions as the car is put back in working order, and so on.

I seem to recall the manager telling us that they try very hard to get every car in the fleet assigned to LA through this process twice a year (and so far no one who was on that tour has said that they recall differently). They don't always succeed, as cars end up elsewhere at times, but that I believe is the goal.

And I do agree with Catblue that the crews in the various yards could still do better at a general cleaning as each train is turned. Yes, sometimes when a train is very late arriving, there just isn't time to get everything done. But I've seen too many trains where that wasn't the case and it was simply the fact that whomever was doing the general cleaning, either didn't notice or didn't care to notice what was there.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Catblue, I agree with you. When the cleaning is done, where ever & whoever does it should make an effort to at least try to wipe those areas down. I realize most of the time the attendant may not have time to clean it regularly, but once a trip wouldn't hurt. They must have some down time to do stuff like that. When I used to waitress, that's what we would do, clean/scrub when we weren't busy.

Aw, come on Sunchaser. A lotta years have passed between then and now. This is the way things are here in the 21st century. People don't do their jobs more than the bare minimum. We must accept this until people start raising their children right again.

 

[sunchaser]

Catblue, I agree with you. When the cleaning is done, where ever & whoever does it should make an effort to at least try to wipe those areas down. I realize most of the time the attendant may not have time to clean it regularly, but once a trip wouldn't hurt. They must have some down time to do stuff like that. When I used to waitress, that's what we would do, clean/scrub when we weren't busy.

Aw, come on Sunchaser. A lotta years have passed between then and now. This is the way things are here in the 21st century. People don't do their jobs more than the bare minimum. We must accept this until people start raising their children right again.

Yah Yah Yah how old do you think I am? (hint: it's wise not to answer that one!) :lol:

Are you gonna raise yours right when you have some? :lol:

I still do deep cleaning, but I'm not a clean freak.

I think people still clean that way or we wouldn't have all those new cleaners every time I go to the store.

It comes from wanting to do a good job & it also used to be a health violation to have food build up anywhere.

I don't know if that's true now, though.

 

[AlanB]

Here's a photo of the Pacific Parlour Car that we got to tour in LA under going that heavy duty cleaning that I was speaking of. Note the seat cushions that are removed and the panels that enclose the AC duct work are hanging down blocking the windows.

 

[Guest_Nancy_*]

The Café car, and all cars for that mattér, should bé cléaned with stéam and no chémicals.

 

[AlanB]

The Café car, and all cars for that mattér, should bé cléaned with stéam and no chémicals.

Can't steam clean the cars, too many things would melt rendering the car useless.

 

[oldtimer]

I think that all of Amtrak's food service cars are on a 92 day heavy cleaning cycle now and all non-food service cars are on a 186 day cycle.

In addition to what you saw in LA last year, this type of cleaning is done also in Hialeah for Viewliners, Chicago Brighton Park Yard for Horizons and Superliners. I am not sure of the Amfleet service point, it may be Sunnyside or Bear.

 

[RailFanLNK]

I know that the Amtrak employees are always in "different" cars than they were in on the previous run, but I work for a large delivery company and I have "my" delivery vehicle. Mine is very clean, just yesterday mine was taken out of the lineup and another package vehicle was substituted, the car I received was a pigsty. :angry: Sometimes cleanliness comes down to a matter of pride with a particular employee. I could pretty much tell what the previous driver of this vehicle had for breakfast, lunch and supper. I for one always keep things spic and span. I wanted to find a medical facility and borrow a pair of rubber gloves yesterday.

 

[DET63]

The Café car, and all cars for that mattér, should bé cléaned with stéam and no chémicals.

Wé agréé!

 

[catblue]

Wish I would of had my camera with me when I was in the Café Car. Words alone don't do it justice.

 

[Chatter163]

Aw, come on Sunchaser. A lotta years have passed between then and now. This is the way things are here in the 21st century. People don't do their jobs more than the bare minimum. We must accept this until people start raising their children right again.

Bull dinkey.

 

[GG-1]

Aw, come on Sunchaser. A lotta years have passed between then and now. This is the way things are here in the 21st century. People don't do their jobs more than the bare minimum. We must accept this until people start raising their children right again.

Bull dinkey.

Aloha

GML is being a little hard in his statement but to American same there is some truth to his statement. Not all parents, today, live up to there responsibilities as parents. I am to say my daughter did good in spite of me, and so is the granddaughter, I am proud of them both.

 

[sunchaser]

Aw, come on Sunchaser. A lotta years have passed between then and now. This is the way things are here in the 21st century. People don't do their jobs more than the bare minimum. We must accept this until people start raising their children right again.

Bull dinkey.

Aloha

GML is being a little hard in his statement but to American same there is some truth to his statement. Not all parents, today, live up to there responsibilities as parents. I am to say my daughter did good in spite of me, and so is the granddaughter, I am proud of them both.

That is so true about some parents-but as I have said before, I have seen it used as an excuse not to be responsible when someone becomes an adult. Thankfully, my children & grandchildren for the most part are doing well in the personal responsibility area. I know we weren't perfect parents, but they have told me they know we tried to do the best job we knew how. They are trying to improve on that, which is a good thing.

 

[jphjaxfl]

If Amtrak received unannouced Public Health Inspections like restaurants receive and they found the type of unsanitary conditions that Catblue mentions, they would be written up and if the problem was not corrected, the lounge would be shut down for food service. If they decided to inspect Amtrak system wide after finding enough cars with problems, Amtrak could have some problems continue to offer food service on trains until the problems were corrected. Amtrak Managers need to ride trains to assure that doesn't happen.

 

[cpamtfan]

If Amtrak received unannouced Public Health Inspections like restaurants receive and they found the type of unsanitary conditions that Catblue mentions, they would be written up and if the problem was not corrected, the lounge would be shut down for food service. If they decided to inspect Amtrak system wide after finding enough cars with problems, Amtrak could have some problems continue to offer food service on trains until the problems were corrected. Amtrak Managers need to ride trains to assure that doesn't happen.

What so now Amtrak has to have people thoroughly clean their trains DURING their trips? Amtrak has had the FDA bust therm a couple of times for other, worse things. These issues that cat pointed out happen at just about any restaurant, so because of this we should just shut down every restaurant so they can be thourouly cleaned? If people start getting sick on Amtrak trains that would get attention, but whose going to stick their hand down the side of a chair and clean that area. I'm sorry but I've seen much worse situations than this so this is just very minor to me.

 

[Larry H.]

If Amtrak received unannouced Public Health Inspections like restaurants receive and they found the type of unsanitary conditions that Catblue mentions, they would be written up and if the problem was not corrected, the lounge would be shut down for food service. If they decided to inspect Amtrak system wide after finding enough cars with problems, Amtrak could have some problems continue to offer food service on trains until the problems were corrected. Amtrak Managers need to ride trains to assure that doesn't happen.

What so now Amtrak has to have people thoroughly clean their trains DURING their trips? Amtrak has had the FDA bust therm a couple of times for other, worse things. These issues that cat pointed out happen at just about any restaurant, so because of this we should just shut down every restaurant so they can be thourouly cleaned? If people start getting sick on Amtrak trains that would get attention, but whose going to stick their hand down the side of a chair and clean that area. I'm sorry but I've seen much worse situations than this so this is just very minor to me.

You and Green Manned Lion ought to start your own third rate railroad somewhere, that is seemingly all you will stand up for. Its what is wrong with the deterioration of he country, no one is willing to accept or stand up for standards that once were the norm. It is probably the educational system that has been trying to ruin the country for years by teaching that mediocrity is fine and nothing or no one should ever be criticized for a lousy performance. Pride used to be taught at home and followed into the schools and work place, no longer it would seem. The issues discussed here are not typical of most restaurants, any McDonalds is held to a much higher standard than amtrak every seems to have dreamed. I supervised cleaning for a lot of years and it comes directly from the top. If no one is held responsible for the job the works seemingly except in rare instances any longer don't seem to care either. But if they know there job is on the line and that the work is inspected and lousy cleaning will not be accepted, then things will get better. Amtrak has consistently failed to do either and evidently is falling even farther behing. It speaks volumes as to their commitment to passenger rail.

 

[rrdude]

I recently rode the California Zephyr and was surprised at how dirty the food areas were. Most especially the Café Car. I was sitting in the front of the Café Car on the booth that the seat backs up to the window. I looked over the top of the seat to the space between the window and the back of the seat and was appalled. All I can say is EWWWWWWW Gross!!
It was evident that it had not been cleaned in ages. I don't mean a few crumbs and a little dirt. There was a ton of crumbs and grime down there.

I am glad I was traveling first class and not taking my meals in the Café Car. The Dinning Lounge was a little cleaner than the Café Car but by no means real clean.

I have to say the attendant in the Café car was a very nice and helpful person with a great sense of humor. Sorry I don't remember his name. I don't blame him in any way for the lack of cleanliness. I feel this falls on the cleaning crew at the Amtrak Yard.

Why is this acceptable?

It is accepted because it isn't hurting anyone or anything. Look, if you like total cleanliness, any public place will have it exceptions. The crews do clean (vacume, spruce up bathrooms, etc.) in yards, but the places where you were looking are only cleaned during an overhaul at Beech Grove shops. Overhauls only happen every few months/years, so this car may not have been in a while. Coach pax CAN eat in the diner, not just the cafe. You've just got to let this situation go, not every place you go will be totally perfect, and a food service cars serve food, people make messes+sometimes not cleaning up=what you saw.

That is SO unacceptable!! Shame on any of us (me included obviously) at AU or any railfan in general for not taking note of the car number, trip, data and time, and firing off an email to Amtrak at the earliest opportunity. I'd also ask the conductor and OBS chief to make note of the condition. ESPECIALLY since food is served on this train. EXTRA shame on anyone who condones or makes excuses to let Amtrak off the hook for HACCP violations like this. Wiki Def for HACCP

Agree that OBS staff is USUALLY not to blame for conditions such as the OP reported, but it some small measure, if OBS crews did a better job of cleaning en route, the "appalling" conditions would be lessened somewhat.

 

[rrdude]

If Amtrak received unannouced Public Health Inspections like restaurants receive and they found the type of unsanitary conditions that Catblue mentions, they would be written up and if the problem was not corrected, the lounge would be shut down for food service. If they decided to inspect Amtrak system wide after finding enough cars with problems, Amtrak could have some problems continue to offer food service on trains until the problems were corrected. Amtrak Managers need to ride trains to assure that doesn't happen.

What so now Amtrak has to have people thoroughly clean their trains DURING their trips? Amtrak has had the FDA bust therm a couple of times for other, worse things. These issues that cat pointed out happen at just about any restaurant, so because of this we should just shut down every restaurant so they can be thourouly cleaned? If people start getting sick on Amtrak trains that would get attention, but whose going to stick their hand down the side of a chair and clean that area. I'm sorry but I've seen much worse situations than this so this is just very minor to me.

And "minor" or "seeing worse" makes this OK? I beg to disagree. If Ray Kroc can get it done, paying minimum wage, and btw thousands of companies have followed his "Quality, Service, Cleanliness and Value" Amtrak sure as Hell should be able to. Unacceptable, Unacceptable, Unacceptable, Unacceptable.