Ryan
Court Jester
As usual, you couldn't be more wrong, Volkris.
I think Volkris is 100% right.As usual, you couldn't be more wrong, Volkris.
I don't think that Volkris has ever been 100% right about anything, especially as he often contradicts himself. However, Volkris is an extremist libertarian. Extremists are never 100% right, including myself.I think Volkris is 100% right.As usual, you couldn't be more wrong, Volkris.
There is a penalty for the users, since most people don't pay off their credit cards right away, so they are paying interest on that money.The ability to book and cancel without penalty gives exactly the behavior you're seeing here: it encourages people to buy tickets on the chance that they'll be traveling on some day, knowing that if they decide not to make the trip there's no problem downside.
Accepting that view for the moment, here's a thought: instead of having that penalty go to credit card companies who certainly have neither Amtrak's nor the US transportation infrastructure's best interests forefront in their minds, Amtrak should take control of the situation by setting and collecting penalties for rebooking on its own terms. These reservations are Amtrak's inventory to manage, but what you describe cedes that control to otherwise-interested banks.There is a penalty for the users, since most people don't pay off their credit cards right away, so they are paying interest on that money.The ability to book and cancel without penalty gives exactly the behavior you're seeing here: it encourages people to buy tickets on the chance that they'll be traveling on some day, knowing that if they decide not to make the trip there's no problem downside.
And for Amtrak, even if the passenger does pay off their card, they are still getting an interest free loan in many cases for 11 months.
This may be the most ridiculous thing that you've ever written, and that bar is pretty high. Care to expound on how the banks have any control over the situation?These reservations are Amtrak's inventory to manage, but what you describe cedes that control to otherwise-interested banks.
Thanks for confirming, you're the worst kind of libertarian there is, the "common sense" libertarian that doesn't realize that their views are at the extreme. That kind of disconnect from reality why you're so utterly unable to understand so much of the time.And GML, no, I'm not an "extremest libertarian", and it's funny that I convey that impression through notions like "If I have two dollars, and you ask for four, well, that's just not going to work out" Only libertarians can do math? The concept of negative numbers is but a political stunt? You should see the cabal that came up with calculus!
I obviously have no access to such numbers, since Amtrak has never posted or made public such numbers. However, it is quite clear that Amtrak does have such numbers, are aware of what's going on, and that they don't consider it to be a huge problem. It's clear that they are aware from two recent events. The most recent, the simple fact that they are taking steps to stop Travel Agents from gobbling up rooms. The other event occured a few years ago when Amtrak made changes to one's ability to call up an agent and make an upaid reservation for travel on the NEC.But I doubt your view is particularly accurate based on what others here say, so let's see some numbers. What proportion of bookings are canceled? What proportion of those were clearly doublebookings trying to maximize the riders' flexibility? For that matter, what proportion of Amtrak riders canceling their bookings DO pay off their credit cards or have such low interest rates that the penalty is insignificant?
I'm sorry, but there is a real capacity issue on the trains, especially the single level trains. Let's look at the Crescent which had no special reasons to be full during the month of March; that's the latest stats released by Amtrak.Also, there is no real capacity issue (sorry GML). Just a false one, caused by many bedrooms being booked early on (11 months ahead). Of course, if not re-sold, those bedrooms all get dumped back into the system at the last minute, and may or may not be booked by others. Amtrak can, in an instant, go from a sold out full train, to a nearly empty one, at least in terms of sleepers.
My question about this is in regards to the travel agents who scoop up the low bucket rooms. Do they resell them to the public at a higher rate? Do they put the amtrak tickets into some sort of "package deal" with hotel rooms, thereby marking up the amtrak tickets? It sounds like amtrak is working to stop this practice which is a good thing, because they very well could be marking up the rooms at their own profit.I'm interested in the use of the word "scalping" here. To my knowledge, a scalper is someone who, for instance, buys a ticket to a sporting event and then stands outside the stadium and resells the ticket at a higher price to someone who wishes to attend the event but doesn't have a ticket. The scalper makes a profit on the tranaction, which is illegal in many places. Companies exist to resell tickets, often held by season ticket holders who can't attend every game. Of course, this is all based on the fact that the sporting event in question is already sold out and someone can't buy a ticket by simply waiting up to the box office. And that someone is willing to pay more than the marked value of the ticket. If a person reserves a room on an Amtrak train in advance, pays for it, then later decides to cancel the reservation and gets his money back, how is that scalping? There's no profit motive for the original buyer.
Quite honestly, it is not really a travel agent (as you know them) that is doing this on selected trains. The companies are wholesalers who do the same thing with hotels, airlines, attractions, etc. Most of these companies have a block of rooms, seats, tickets, etc that they commit to the wholesaler, who in turn spends their money to advertise the packages in a variety of different media - i.e. Sunday Travel Sections, magazines, etc. In most cases the company working with the wholesaler has a "sell and report" system that requires the wholesaler to provide rooming lists at a certain date prior to the arrival date, departure date, etc. Amtrak works with wholesalers who primarily focus on the western trains - SW Chief, Empire Builder, California Zephyr - that have attractive and historic scenery and locations to feature. The Crescent, Capitol Limited, Cardinal and even the Silver Service trains are generally not involved with this kind of activity. There is nothing illegal or wrong with this practice, unless the company does not have the ability to get the unsold space back with enough time to re-sell the unsold rooms. I believe Amtrak is working diligently to set up this kind of control to insure that space is not held until the last moment and then put back onto the market. It is not scalping, nor is it illegal or immoral - it just needs to be controlled properly.My question about this is in regards to the travel agents who scoop up the low bucket rooms. Do they resell them to the public at a higher rate? Do they put the amtrak tickets into some sort of "package deal" with hotel rooms, thereby marking up the amtrak tickets? It sounds like amtrak is working to stop this practice which is a good thing, because they very well could be marking up the rooms at their own profit.I'm interested in the use of the word "scalping" here. To my knowledge, a scalper is someone who, for instance, buys a ticket to a sporting event and then stands outside the stadium and resells the ticket at a higher price to someone who wishes to attend the event but doesn't have a ticket. The scalper makes a profit on the tranaction, which is illegal in many places. Companies exist to resell tickets, often held by season ticket holders who can't attend every game. Of course, this is all based on the fact that the sporting event in question is already sold out and someone can't buy a ticket by simply waiting up to the box office. And that someone is willing to pay more than the marked value of the ticket. If a person reserves a room on an Amtrak train in advance, pays for it, then later decides to cancel the reservation and gets his money back, how is that scalping? There's no profit motive for the original buyer.
It could also be normal folks taking advantage of Amtrak's fully refundable tickets. I have two sleeper trips on reserved next month to the same destination because I havn't decided when I want to go yet. I may use one, I might not go at all, but I won't be using both. It works out that I either hold these two reservations or risk not getting a sleeper at all. The way the return policy is set up I can make sure I am getting exactly what I want and shift all the risk to Amtrak and other passengers.
Not necessarily - I've got a hunch that the "Hurry only x rooms left" is keyed off of the number of rooms remaining in the high bucket (since those are the last ones sold). When a train is sold out, and then a less than high bucket ticket goes back into the inventory, the system assumes that since it's selling a less than high bucket ticket remaining that all of the high bucket tickets are left and so the message isn't triggered.It could also be normal folks taking advantage of Amtrak's fully refundable tickets. I have two sleeper trips on reserved next month to the same destination because I havn't decided when I want to go yet. I may use one, I might not go at all, but I won't be using both. It works out that I either hold these two reservations or risk not getting a sleeper at all. The way the return policy is set up I can make sure I am getting exactly what I want and shift all the risk to Amtrak and other passengers.
You could be correct about the cancellations but consider my argument. When a train is sold out it shows no bedrooms are available. Say two bedrooms are cancelled and become available again. It is common for Amtrak to post "Hurry only two, three or four bedrooms left'. The fact that I did not see this message posted means that a whole flock of rooms became available. I might buy the theory that Amtrak may be adding and deleting sleepers according to load but am more inclined to believe that someone was holding the bedrooms and trying to re sell them.
So long as Amtrak requires that a name go on the reservation, I don't think it is possible to "resell" it.
From the way I see this, if there was truly a general capacity problem with sleeper accommodations, then no one, and I mean here no one, would ever be able to do an on-board upgrade. Never. Because all sold out trains would actually depart still sold out.I'm sorry, but there is a real capacity issue on the trains, especially the single level trains. Let's look at the Crescent which had no special reasons to be full during the month of March; that's the latest stats released by Amtrak.
I think the consensus is, that we want no such exceptions for travel agencies. Travel agencies can book for a specific client, but they can't grab accommodations for speculation.So long as Amtrak requires that a name go on the reservation, I don't think it is possible to "resell" it.
Valid point but there must be some exception for travel agencies that book tours.
You know that statement applies to you as well, right?You know, not having available the data to either support or refute a position doesn't somehow make the position stronger. It means there is no available data to support the position.
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