Coast Starlight #14 seems to get hung up at Sacramento

[acelafan]

I noticed that #14 arrives at SAC close to on time or early, but leaves late a lot of times - losing 30 minutes or more. It seems Amtrak has the scheduled departure and arrival times the same for this station when you check Amtrak.com - as if it doesn't need any dwell. Does that seem unusual for a "major" stop, unlike small towns?

Maybe it doesn't matter in the end for those tracking on time performance since the end point only matters. Although that's about to change in a few months.

(link)

 

[KmH]

Of course the engineer can't move the train until given permission to do so from the dispatcher working for the rail line that owns the tracks - UP I think.

It's likely the late departures are to accommodate a variety of things - freight traffic, CS maintenance, weather, other, and/or some combination of all of the above.

 

[Triley]

In addition to what KmH said, SAC is also a connection point for train 703, which could delay it every now and again.

 

[Sactobob]

Sacramento is a servicing stop, and it requires twenty or more minutes to accomplish that. If the scheduled departure were to be shown as a "more accurate" 12:20am or later, it would cause no end of confusion since train #14 would be leaving SAC "the day after" the arrival of San Joaquin #703. To alleviate that confusion, the departure is shown as 11:59pm, even though from an operational standpoint 12:20am or later would be more accurate. There is recovery time built into the schedule before the next stop up the line.

Although, even the 11:59pm departure time can cause confusion. On at least three occasions, while serving as Volunteer Station Host at the Sacramento station, people have wandered in about 11:15am or so asking about the train to Seattle, or Portland, or Eugene. I had to tell them that they were either twelve hours early or twelve hours late.

 

[bmjhagen9426]

Not surprising to know that. I've traveled on #14 quite a bit out of Emeryville/Oakland, and it is always late out of Sacramento (usually even when pulling in as well). I believe that's the case because SAC is a service stop, and a crew change point, where, in the case of #14, the new crew will take over the overnight portion up to K.Falls. I also believe that the train is late out of SAC because it is where people connecting from #703 get on #14 (usually coming from the Central Valley, but sometimes people who missed #14 due to a late #1 or #3 is possible, and headed for the overnight shortstop trios, or even to Oregon or Washington) I see a lot of people (supposedly) connecting from #703 to #14. Unless the train was delayed for more than two hours coming in (happened to me twice, once for broken restroom, another for striking a road vehicle), or the train is delayed during the overnight portion, the train will usually make up time by the time it reaches K.Falls.

 

[niemi24s]

Although, even the 11:59pm departure time can cause confusion. On at least three occasions, while serving as Volunteer Station Host at the Sacramento station, people have wandered in about 11:15am or so asking about the train to Seattle, or Portland, or Eugene. I had to tell them that they were either twelve hours early or twelve hours late.

All that could be eliminated by using the 24 hour clock for printed schedules - like just about every other country in the world.

 

[Sactobob]

I gave a bit more thought to the artificial SAC departure time of 11:59pm. It might have to do just as much with not confusing the computer as not confusing passengers. I can't think of a single instance of a legitimate Amtrak connection between a train arriving one day and one departing the next day. Perhaps the reservations/ticketing system simply could not deal with it as currently programmed.

 

[CCC1007]

I gave a bit more thought to the artificial SAC departure time of 11:59pm. It might have to do just as much with not confusing the computer as not confusing passengers. I can't think of a single instance of a legitimate Amtrak connection between a train arriving one day and one departing the next day. Perhaps the reservations/ticketing system simply could not deal with it as currently programmed.

What about Atlanta to Houston?

 

[bmjhagen9426]

And what about, let's say from Portland to Flagstaff (#11 to #4)? #11 to #4 shows up as a valid connection on the online reservation system, despite a 21-hour layover at LA (at least when I tried it).

 

[acelafan]

Interesting discussion. I guess it just seems like Amtrak is hurting themselves with OTP reporting by scheduling the train to leave at 11:59PM but in reality it never does. The reason why it's set that way, we may never know...

 

[MikefromCrete]

Although, even the 11:59pm departure time can cause confusion. On at least three occasions, while serving as Volunteer Station Host at the Sacramento station, people have wandered in about 11:15am or so asking about the train to Seattle, or Portland, or Eugene. I had to tell them that they were either twelve hours early or twelve hours late.

All that could be eliminated by using the 24 hour clock for printed schedules - like just about every other country in the world.

Yeah, like people would understand the 24-hour clock.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

They could book 703 as if it is a split train, with people bound for SAC on the present time and connecting passengers booked on a separate train number with an arrival time of 12:00 AM, allowing the CS to be moved back.

 

[zephyr17]

Under the current system, it looks like they'd have to manage the separate train (call it 1703) as a separate inventory and each "train" would have fixed number of seats (at least for each departure). I think that would cause some real inventory management and, especially, confusing pricing for the consumer. See what happens with 7/27 or 1/21/421.

 

[MikefromCrete]

This again is another solution looking for a problem. What difference does it make if the Starlight leaves "late" every night from Sacramento, yet makes up the time overnight? If passengers arrive on time at their destination, do they care if the train is late departing from an intermediate station?

 

[Bob Dylan]

This again is another solution looking for a problem. What difference does it make if the Starlight leaves "late" every night from Sacramento, yet makes up the time overnight? If passengers arrive on time at their destination, do they care if the train is late departing from an intermediate station?

They do if they're catching the train in the wee hours Mike!

 

[zephyr17]

This again is another solution looking for a problem. What difference does it make if the Starlight leaves "late" every night from Sacramento, yet makes up the time overnight? If passengers arrive on time at their destination, do they care if the train is late departing from an intermediate station?

They do if they're catching the train in the wee hours Mike!

If, when it arrives on time, they allow the passengers to board and settle in at the expected time, then leaves a bit late but makes up time and gets them there on time, I'm with Mike, it is a solution in search of a problem.

 

[acelafan]

Agree with BD on that; plus the timetable should strive to be accurate. In this case it's clearly not.

 

[TiBike]

If outbound passengers can board at 11:59 p.m. or thereabouts, and they get where they're going on time, what difference does it make what the train does in between? Listing the time as 11:59pm instead of 12:01 a.m. is marginally less confusing for a lot of people -- it's a common sense solution of the sort Amtrak should be encouraged to adopt.

 

[sechs]

Interesting discussion. I guess it just seems like Amtrak is hurting themselves with OTP reporting by scheduling the train to leave at 11:59PM but in reality it never does. The reason why it's set that way, we may never know...

Nope. On-time performance is measured by arrival time, not departure time.

Most stops don't even have a scheduled departure time.

 

[SP&S]

Although, even the 11:59pm departure time can cause confusion. On at least three occasions, while serving as Volunteer Station Host at the Sacramento station, people have wandered in about 11:15am or so asking about the train to Seattle, or Portland, or Eugene. I had to tell them that they were either twelve hours early or twelve hours late.

All that could be eliminated by using the 24 hour clock for printed schedules - like just about every other country in the world.

Just like we've taken to the metric system so well :lol:

 

[willem]

Interesting discussion. I guess it just seems like Amtrak is hurting themselves with OTP reporting by scheduling the train to leave at 11:59PM but in reality it never does. The reason why it's set that way, we may never know...

Nope. On-time performance is measured by arrival time, not departure time.

Most stops don't even have a scheduled departure time.

The timetables I've seen show most times as "Dp" and almost never show "Ar" without "Dp" except at the end point. I had always assumed that meant departure times were shown and arrival times usually were not shown.

 

[west point]

The southbound CS has a split for arrival and departure times at Sacramento. But northbound shows arrival 11:59 and departure 11:59. It may be this has something to do with the California rail pass in the reservations system . The pass has a certain number of days so 11:59 will prevent a day's charge on pass use when connecting from San Joaquin trains ? Maybe a request from joint powers authority ?

 

[unitedstatesfan]

The northbound CS being delayed at SAC has also been true during most of the last few nights.

Amtrak appears to have inserted about an hour's recovery time in the timetable overnight before the scheduled arrival at KFS.

Is this deliberate in recognition of delays at Sacramento?

Is it freight trains causing these SAC delays, a very slow changeover between the engineers, or simply waiting for a connecting train as discussed above?

I too don't understand why Amtrak doesn't adopt the 24 hour clock. If young people worldwide can manage the intricacies of smartphones, they can learn the difference between '1159' and '2359.' So can oldies!

 

[Montreal Ltd]

When I was in college in the 60's

 

[Montreal Ltd]

The Canadian Pacific Railroad had American style time, whereas the Canadian National Railway had the 24 hour clock.