Coast Starlight no longer stopping at Richmond

[AudenHoggart]

I see on the Amtrak website that the Coast Starlight will no longer be stopping at Richmond. Since this was a convenient transfer point for BART trains, does anyone know the reason for this?

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&cid=1251623141957

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Low ridership? Trying to increase OTP?

 

[TinCan782]

I was thinking lack of use as well. When Richmond and Bob Hope Airport (Burbank) was added I wondered if Amtrak was making too many stops within a geographical area. Its almost becomes a commuter train instead of a LD train at that point.

 

[Nathanael]

One would guess low ridership. Stations like that are added to the schedule *in case* there are a whole bunch of people coming from points in between Richmond and Oakland on BART and heading north on the Coast Starlight. (Or the reverse trip, obviously.)

If after a few years it turns out there just aren't very many people doing that, you take the station off the schedule; the remaining users of the stations can backtrack and change trains in Oakland, or take a Capitol Corridor train and change trains in Sacramento.

 

[roadman3313]

The stop is used by a few people on each trip as far as I've noticed. Though I admit I do use the train for more of commuter purposes. I can say that stopping is generally not worth the dwell time spent on the station stop. Especially with the poor OTP of train 14 this should help a little bit. I assume the CZ will still stop at Richmond. It was noted by riders, at least on the CC that more people are now using BART to connect in Richmond rather than taking the Thruway buses to SF in Emeryville.

There are plenty of trains from RIC to EMY in the morning to connect to train 11. In the evening the last CC train from RIC to MTZ to connect to train 14 would be about 30 minutes earlier on weekdays and about an hour earlier on the weekends than train 14 is scheduled at currently. With the low ridership, the impact would not affect that many passengers.

 

[francis]

Richmond was my connection so I'm kind of sad it's gone, but after many trips when I was the only one taking advantage of the BART I understand. Fortunately there is actually another, though unadvertised BART connection - the Thruway stop at the San Francisco Hyatt. It is right next to the Embarcadero BART station.

 

[roadman3313]

Richmond was my connection so I'm kind of sad it's gone, but after many trips when I was the only one taking advantage of the BART I understand. Fortunately there is actually another, though unadvertised BART connection - the Thruway stop at the San Francisco Hyatt. It is right next to the Embarcadero BART station.

Shhhhh... we don't tell people about that one!! Haha... for those going elsewhere including the SFO airport that is a great connecting point in the city. SFS (4th/Market/Shopping Center) is also a great connecting for the Powell BART Station and Cable Car turntable. SFC (Ferry Building) for those buses that only stop there is about a (long) two block walk to BART. About 5 minutes at an average walking pace.

But to get to San Francisco the better option is now the Thruway connection at EMY/OKJ depending on if you take 11 or 14.

 

[Trogdor]

One of the biggest problems with serving Richmond is that if train 14 is late, the station can be closed. Not just unstaffed, but actually, physically closed. The platforms are after the BART entrance, and when BART closes for the night, the gates are shut and there is no (safe, legal) way to get to/from the platform.

 

[BCL]

One of the biggest problems with serving Richmond is that if train 14 is late, the station can be closed. Not just unstaffed, but actually, physically closed. The platforms are after the BART entrance, and when BART closes for the night, the gates are shut and there is no (safe, legal) way to get to/from the platform.

I remember checking out the platform years ago, before the current redesign with the parking garage. I don't recall there being a shared entrance back then.

I took the CS once from Richmond-San Jose because my kid loves trains and we had the opportunity to have breakfast in the dining car. There was one other passenger boarding at Richmond, and he was actually in the same BART car we took to get to the station. The odd thing was that the fare was $13, but was $14 for Emeryville-San Jose. We also had a little more time on the train, and of course the access to BART was convenient. I guess we could have done this on Capitol Corridor, but my kid loved the dining car, the crayons, and meeting people at a shared table.

I suppose the California Zephyr is still stopping in Richmond?

 

[City of Miami]

Yes. I got off #5 ric last night at 21:25; Quite a few folks around and easy ride into the city on bart. Fantastic ride on cz, busted rail and all. Solid snow from spi westward. 5 degrees in den. Busy train.....I loved it! Mts incredible, eagles, elk, foxes, turkeys, deer etc.

 

[Texan Eagle]

But to get to San Francisco the better option is now the Thruway connection at EMY/OKJ depending on if you take 11 or 14.

I wonder if anyone has used the Caltrain from SJC option to reach San Francisco instead of going to OKJ and taking the bus? I see scheduled arrival for 14 is 8.27pm. If it manages to arrive a few minutes before time, there is an 8.30pm Caltrain reaching San Francisco 4th and King at 10.01pm. If it is a cross-platform transfer, would it be a convenient option for some passengers?

 

[Blackwolf]

I wonder if anyone has used the Caltrain from SJC option to reach San Francisco instead of going to OKJ and taking the bus? I see scheduled arrival for 14 is 8.27pm. If it manages to arrive a few minutes before time, there is an 8.30pm Caltrain reaching San Francisco 4th and King at 10.01pm. If it is a cross-platform transfer, would it be a convenient option for some passengers?

If you already had a pass for CalTrain, I could see this being a viable option. But since CalTrain uses a Proof-of-Payment system and tickets cannot be purchased on-board, the time it took for a passenger to head into the station, use the ticket vending machine, then head back to the platform would be a great deal more time than such a small window allowed. Now, if CalTrain were to somehow reschedule that 8:30 train to perhaps a 9:00 train, then this would be much more inviting!

Of course, #14 has not been on-time or early into SJC in what seems like forever, so all bets have flown out the window. But yes, a rail-to-rail transfer between Amtrak and CalTrain would be a good idea!

 

[BCL]

But to get to San Francisco the better option is now the Thruway connection at EMY/OKJ depending on if you take 11 or 14.

I wonder if anyone has used the Caltrain from SJC option to reach San Francisco instead of going to OKJ and taking the bus? I see scheduled arrival for 14 is 8.27pm. If it manages to arrive a few minutes before time, there is an 8.30pm Caltrain reaching San Francisco 4th and King at 10.01pm. If it is a cross-platform transfer, would it be a convenient option for some passengers?

The time we went down to San Jose to take in stuff there, we took Caltrain to San Francisco, had dinner in SF, and took BART back to the station where I parked. Caltrain was $9 (25 cents less if you've got Clipper) and BART was about $4. I think it would have been $1 less if I'd taken BART at Millbrae and went straight home. However, we wanted to spend some time in SF (and spent a little more to ride MUNI).

The nice thing about Caltrain is that it's BYOB. I had a 24 oz can of beer while my kid took a nap. I've seen group sharing with 6 to 12-packs of anything from cheap beer to microbrews. I've even heard of passengers slamming down shots. A conductor was telling me about how useful the stainless steel becomes when it comes time to clean up the vestibules.

 

[BCL]

I wonder if anyone has used the Caltrain from SJC option to reach San Francisco instead of going to OKJ and taking the bus? I see scheduled arrival for 14 is 8.27pm. If it manages to arrive a few minutes before time, there is an 8.30pm Caltrain reaching San Francisco 4th and King at 10.01pm. If it is a cross-platform transfer, would it be a convenient option for some passengers?

If you already had a pass for CalTrain, I could see this being a viable option. But since CalTrain uses a Proof-of-Payment system and tickets cannot be purchased on-board, the time it took for a passenger to head into the station, use the ticket vending machine, then head back to the platform would be a great deal more time than such a small window allowed. Now, if CalTrain were to somehow reschedule that 8:30 train to perhaps a 9:00 train, then this would be much more inviting!

Of course, #14 has not been on-time or early into SJC in what seems like forever, so all bets have flown out the window. But yes, a rail-to-rail transfer between Amtrak and CalTrain would be a good idea!

There's another train at least on the hour.

I've got a story to tell about taking Caltrain. I once needed to drive to the station and was stuck for what seemed like 8 minutes at a light near the tracks at Castro Street and Central in Mountain View. A train was coming in the opposite direction and I didn't get a green arrow for quite a while. I found parking, checked my watch, and dashed to the station. I was out of breath, and didn't have my Clipper card (left it at home). I would have had enough time to buy a ticket, but there was someone already at the closest ticket machine, and the next one is way down the platform. He finishes buying his ticket, and I look at it and figured out that I'd never be able to complete my purchase before the doors closed. I think I missed it by about 30 seconds. If I had my Clipper card, it would have been a quick tag and on the train. In the end I just drove home. It's not that bad a drive for me, but I like it during the morning commute where I don't have to deal with as much bad traffic and/or people cutting me off.

I have witnessed Caltrain fare inspectors tell passengers without tickets that they're weren't going to fine them, but they could try and buy a ticket at the next stop. Of course it's typically about 30 seconds, and a couple of passengers together will never be able to do it. What that effectively means is that they were tossed and had to wait for the next train.

If someone really needs to do this, a Clipper card can be purchased in advance. However, they now charge $3 just for the card without any cash value added. I think part of it is the cost of the card, but another was to offset the abuse of people just buying a card and tossing it away with a negative balance. It's possible to enter Caltrain with at least $1.75 balance. I think charging for the card decreases the chances that people trying doing it again since new cards will cost them.

 

[roadman3313]

Caltrain would be a great option if train 14 were more reliable with OTP. Currently Amtrak uses the ACE (Altamont Commuter Express) train as the Thruway connection during the afternoon peek M-F (excluding holidays) to connect San Jose to Stockton and the Amtrak San Joaquin train. This connection is a bus when ACE is not running. If a similar agreement could be made with Caltrain and thru-ticketing was available that would be a great option.

There is an Amtrak Thruway bus from San Jose at 9:10pm that goes direct to SFC at 10:25pm but it is Discharge only at SJC. That bus originates in SBA and serves all the same stations (as well as a few additional stops) as the CS up to EMY and OKJ. With the OTP of train 14 being a bit lower this bus often arrives before train 14. Not quite the fun experience of the train but for those tighter on time who need to travel in the afternoon if provides another connecting Option. Train 14 is scheduled to depart SNS at 6:36pm and arrive via connection in OKJ to SFC at 10:10pm, often running far later than that. The Bus is scheduled to depart SNS at 7:55pm and arrive into SFC at 10:25pm though it can often be a little early.

 

[MG DeWitt]

*** The Richmond BART station had a multi-million dollar improvement made in the past decade - I don't know the exact amount.

*** The Richmond BART station is the only BART station with a co-located Amtrak station.

Amtrak closed the station because the didn't want to pay any more cab fares from Martinez.

Let me explain.

Due to BART operators closing the station near midnight, and train 14 frequently running hours late, ticketed passengers planning to exit Richmond station were forced to travel one station further to Martinez. This frequency got to expensive, so they closed this important station in the U.S. West Coast sole passenger line.

 

[CCC1007]

*** The Richmond BART station had a multi-million dollar improvement made in the past decade - I don't know the exact amount.

*** The Richmond BART station is the only BART station with a co-located Amtrak station.

Amtrak closed the station because the didn't want to pay any more cab fares from Martinez.

Let me explain.

Due to BART operators closing the station near midnight, and train 14 frequently running hours late, ticketed passengers planning to exit Richmond station were forced to travel one station further to Martinez. This frequency got to expensive, so they closed this important station in the U.S. West Coast sole passenger line.

Since you dug up a four year old thread, could you please provide more details as to why the CZ still stops there?

 

[fairviewroad]

*** The Richmond BART station had a multi-million dollar improvement made in the past decade - I don't know the exact amount.

*** The Richmond BART station is the only BART station with a co-located Amtrak station.

Amtrak closed the station because the didn't want to pay any more cab fares from Martinez.

Let me explain.

Due to BART operators closing the station near midnight, and train 14 frequently running hours late, ticketed passengers planning to exit Richmond station were forced to travel one station further to Martinez. This frequency got to expensive, so they closed this important station in the U.S. West Coast sole passenger line.

Since you dug up a four year old thread, could you please provide more details as to why the CZ still stops there?

Assuming the info about 14 is true, then the answer about the CZ would be self-evident: With calling times of 9:22 a.m. eastbound and 3:59 p.m. westbound, the odds of Amtrak having to pay cab fare for passengers on a late-running CZ are slim, since the odds of the CZ arriving after midnight are slim. The westbound train would have to be 8 hours late...something that has happened exactly zero times over the past year, according to ASMAD.

Train 14, OTOH, has departed EMY after midnight 17 times over the past year...though to be fair, three of those departures were so late the RIC station would have been already open the following morning. But you can certainly see how cab fare for passengers on late-running 14's would add up (assuming that's true).

 

[MG DeWitt]

Why did the Starlight ceased operations at the Richmond CA BART station but not the CZ (Zephyr)?

There was not a problem with the CZ arriving while the station was closed. You answered your own questions above.

"Assuming the info about 14 is true, then the answer about the CZ would be self-evident: With calling times of 9:22 a.m. eastbound and 3:59 p.m. westbound, the odds of Amtrak having to pay cab fare for passengers on a late-running CZ are slim, since the odds of the CZ arriving after midnight are slim."

My information on the cab fares was obtained through direct conversation with Amtrak staff at Martinez station.

I bring up this 4-yr old thread because Amtrak needs to find a way to put Richmond-CA back on the Starlight schedule.

This Amtrak station is the only station in the SF Bay Area co-located with a BART station. Thus, it is the central station for those using BART to board an Amtrak train. Hopefully this issue will get more attention and get local govt pressure on Amtrak.

 

[CCC1007]

Why did the Starlight ceased operations at the Richmond CA BART station but not the CZ (Zephyr)?

There was not a problem with the CZ arriving while the station was closed. You answered your own questions above.

"Assuming the info about 14 is true, then the answer about the CZ would be self-evident: With calling times of 9:22 a.m. eastbound and 3:59 p.m. westbound, the odds of Amtrak having to pay cab fare for passengers on a late-running CZ are slim, since the odds of the CZ arriving after midnight are slim."

My information on the cab fares was obtained through direct conversation with Amtrak staff at Martinez station.

I bring up this 4-yr old thread because Amtrak needs to find a way to put Richmond-CA back on the Starlight schedule.

This Amtrak station is the only station in the SF Bay Area co-located with a BART station. Thus, it is the central station for those using BART to board an Amtrak train. Hopefully this issue will get more attention and get local govt pressure on Amtrak.

What about the Oakland station at the stadium?

 

[zephyr17]

You mean the Coliseum station? The Starlight doesn't stop there, either and never has (unlike Richmond). Richmond is still served by the San Joaquins and the Capitol Corridor trains and Oakland Coliseum is served by the Capitol Corridor. California state and local governments are a lot more interested in their "own" trains than the Starlight, and those do serve Richmond.

But the Starlight still does not stop anywhere with good BART access.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Why did the Starlight ceased operations at the Richmond CA BART station but not the CZ (Zephyr)?

There was not a problem with the CZ arriving while the station was closed. You answered your own questions above.

"Assuming the info about 14 is true, then the answer about the CZ would be self-evident: With calling times of 9:22 a.m. eastbound and 3:59 p.m. westbound, the odds of Amtrak having to pay cab fare for passengers on a late-running CZ are slim, since the odds of the CZ arriving after midnight are slim."

My information on the cab fares was obtained through direct conversation with Amtrak staff at Martinez station.

I bring up this 4-yr old thread because Amtrak needs to find a way to put Richmond-CA back on the Starlight schedule.

This Amtrak station is the only station in the SF Bay Area co-located with a BART station. Thus, it is the central station for those using BART to board an Amtrak train. Hopefully this issue will get more attention and get local govt pressure on Amtrak.

What about the Oakland station at the stadium?

The CS doesn't stop there.

BART is supposed to eventually get to Diridon in San Jose. That would help erase the lack of a convenient BART transfer.

 

[MG DeWitt]

Re: What about the Oakland station at the stadium?

I believe neither of the 2 Amtrak lines; Zephyr or Starlight utilize this stop. Only Capital Corridor trains.

 

[TiBike]

BART is supposed to eventually get to Diridon in San Jose. That would help erase the lack of a convenient BART transfer.

Somewhere in the 2025-2030 time frame -- not worth thinking about right now.

 

[fairviewroad]

Why did the Starlight ceased operations at the Richmond CA BART station but not the CZ (Zephyr)?

There was not a problem with the CZ arriving while the station was closed. You answered your own questions above.

"Assuming the info about 14 is true, then the answer about the CZ would be self-evident: With calling times of 9:22 a.m. eastbound and 3:59 p.m. westbound, the odds of Amtrak having to pay cab fare for passengers on a late-running CZ are slim, since the odds of the CZ arriving after midnight are slim."

My information on the cab fares was obtained through direct conversation with Amtrak staff at Martinez station.

I bring up this 4-yr old thread because Amtrak needs to find a way to put Richmond-CA back on the Starlight schedule.

This Amtrak station is the only station in the SF Bay Area co-located with a BART station. Thus, it is the central station for those using BART to board an Amtrak train. Hopefully this issue will get more attention and get local govt pressure on Amtrak.

Um, no, I'm the one who answered that question.

Your point about BART access to the CS is a fair one, however.