Complaint with Amtrak Conductor

[zephyr17]

I can't say for certain, but I'm almost sure that some actions have been taken. You may not hear about each and every one, but they may have happened.

I am sure there have been actions in individual cases that are reported to Amtrak (and not just here). However, with that said, I have been riding Amtrak from the beginning. The wildly varying levels of onboard service staff professionalism remains one of Amtrak's worst problems and one that just has not improved over the course of many years in my experience. The problem clearly transcends individual disciplinary incidents and goes to the processes and procedures by which they manage their onboard staff. It is clearly a management problem.

There are a lot great people out there, but it just takes one bad one to ruin Amtrak's brand image ("...never again!"), and there is more than just one bad one.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I can't say for certain, but I'm almost sure that some actions have been taken. You may not hear about each and every one, but they may have happened.

I keep seeing the same employees I've reported over and over again. The employees who vanish into their hideaways. The employees who bark orders at my unsuspecting friends and family. The employees who respond to cheerful requests with patronizing retorts. The employees who do their best to turn even the most minor incident (like leaving a towel on the floor of the bathroom) into a one-way shouting match. Every business has a few bad apples, but on Amtrak sometimes it seems like it's the friendly employees who are vastly outnumbered. I'm not sure why that is, but it certainly hasn't changed much in all the years I've been traveling with them.

 

[nightrider]

One or more of the moderators of this forum have said that Amtrak managers DO read this forum. Assuming this is correct, what do they think when they continually read about inconsistent service?? More importantly, do they act upon it? Does someone monitor the customer relations tallies and determine that there is indeed a problem with a given train, or a given SCA or DCA?

It seems to me that any Amtrak manager with a sense of pride in the organization would be pulling his or her hair out when reading horror stories such as the woman from Oakland to Simi Valley recounted. The vexing thing for me is that there doesn't seem to be anything systemic that Amtrak management has done about such inconsistent service. Only the most abject apologist for Amtrak would at this point deny that service is frighteningly inconsistent.

I don't mean firing each and every employee who can be identified; that isn't realistic.

But does anyone know if Amtrak has instituted changes in its training programs for SCAs and similar employees? Are there periodic meetings where SCAs for certain routes or regions get together and have general flaws pointed out in overall service (not individual targeting of persons)? Are customer relations complaints ever shared with employees in group meetings? Is everything (I shudder to think) done by memo with awful government-speak language?

Certain companies are outstanding in their consistency of service? It's not brain surgery! Why can't Amtrak management cull those things that work and strive to implement them? And if Amtrak management has attempted to do so, why have their efforts seemingly failed??

I think this observation is spot-on....

And also agree with the last two posts, as well. The problem seems to be a very deep ingrained company culture that is extremely difficult to eradicate short of rehiring the entire staff....

While the miscreants probably do know that they are working for the customer's fare, their attitude is that they are more on a government entitlement job and are immune from penalty for poor performance....

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Maybe Im just lucky, but Ive only met one employee *sunset limited #2 LFT-NOL* that was a bit gruff about lunch options. Although maybe Im lucky because Im outgoing, but I try to stay out of the way, enjoy the trip, and ask for as litttle as possible. Im pretty forgiving and can overlook certain things as well. *shrugs*

I see alot of these reports, dealing with the Texas Eagle, admittedly a train I havent ridden yet. Ive ridden the SL, CZ, CONO, *soon to ride the Crescent, LSL, and CONO again*, so I will let you all know how those trips go. All I can say is that I will report good and bad experiences to Amtrak and hope that things do change for the better, not just for me, but for the sake of all passengers as well.

 

[VentureForth]

One or more of the moderators of this forum have said that Amtrak managers DO read this forum. Assuming this is correct, what do they think when they continually read about inconsistent service?? More importantly, do they act upon it? Does someone monitor the customer relations tallies and determine that there is indeed a problem with a given train, or a given SCA or DCA?

It seems to me that any Amtrak manager with a sense of pride in the organization would be pulling his or her hair out when reading horror stories such as the woman from Oakland to Simi Valley recounted. The vexing thing for me is that there doesn't seem to be anything systemic that Amtrak management has done about such inconsistent service. Only the most abject apologist for Amtrak would at this point deny that service is frighteningly inconsistent.

I don't mean firing each and every employee who can be identified; that isn't realistic.

But does anyone know if Amtrak has instituted changes in its training programs for SCAs and similar employees? Are there periodic meetings where SCAs for certain routes or regions get together and have general flaws pointed out in overall service (not individual targeting of persons)? Are customer relations complaints ever shared with employees in group meetings? Is everything (I shudder to think) done by memo with awful government-speak language?

Certain companies are outstanding in their consistency of service? It's not brain surgery! Why can't Amtrak management cull those things that work and strive to implement them? And if Amtrak management has attempted to do so, why have their efforts seemingly failed??

It is imperative that all customer service based companies have annual or bi-annual customer service training. People get into a routine in their job, they see it all, over and over again, and forget about the individual whom they serve and the expectations they have - and deserve.

About 6 years ago, I was T-Boned by a guy who ran a stop sign. The only memory I have of the wreck is me calling my wife and trying to guide her to my location and calling my friend and telling him I wouldn't be able to trick or treat with them and our kids. I don't remember any cops. I couldn't identify the guy who hit me or his car in a line up to save my life. I don't remember the 6-block ambulance ride. Don't remember anything. But I was wide awake and cognizant. Cops didn't want to call an ambulance because they thought I was fine. When my wife arrived, she immediately recognized that I was in an incoherent loop, repeating phrases, forgetting my youngest son's name, etc. I bring all this up because the cops - the fine men and women who do a good job - clean up dead bodies regularly and really didn't care about me personally. I'm awake, I'm walking, I'm fine. They were rude to my wife because she knew different and they wouldn't listen. Job atrophy. I finally got my ride to the hospital where I got a cat scan, and it turned out all right. But I needed that visit to prove that I wasn't at fault (blood test for alcohol) for insurance to pay for subsequent physical therapy visits (my muscles were messed up pretty bad in my shoulder and neck).

But the job atrophy mold doesn't fit around all people. There are those who stay with their job for decades because they love it. At Disney, the passionate most helpful employees were the ones that were around the longest. The rudest, "I don't care" people? The college kids just there for three months for school credit.

Then there are those who are super polite, absolutely wonderfully kind and pleasant to be around but can't do their job worth a lick. It's Amtrak Management's responsibility to not just weed out bad employees, but to ENSURE THAT THE RIGHT PEOPLE ARE IN THE RIGHT JOBS. Even stoic employees who have huge responsibilities (ie: conductors) need to be able to interact with a plethora of personalities with dignity and respect. Same goes for the SCA, LSA, SA, CA and every other A on the train. Some folks can't be put in the right job. They don't need to be with Amtrak.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

It seems to me that any Amtrak manager with a sense of pride in the organization would be pulling his or her hair out when reading horror stories such as the

But the job atrophy mold doesn't fit around all people. There are those who stay with their job for decades because they love it. At Disney, the passionate most helpful employees were the ones that were around the longest. The rudest, "I don't care" people? The college kids just there for three months for school credit.

 

I hope you don't mean ALL of the college kids (and I'm sure you don't).

My daughter interned at WDW in the Fall of 2009 (which is also when he dad died after a long period of ill health). I seriously doubt my daughter gave an attitude of "I don't care" even when she was depressed with her dad's passing.

 

[slimchipley]

Amtrak cant handle what is never reported. If people reported things more often, then maybe something would change. It takes the same amount of time to report an experience to Amtrak that it does to type it out here in a post.

It is certainly true that Amtrak can't handle what is never reported, however, after many reports (both good and bad), I get the impression that Amtrak (customer relations) can't (or won't) handle what is reported. How are these do-nothings evaluated and by whom? It is a very sad situation. I enjoy riding trains, but in order to do so I have to set very low expectations of personnel, maintainence, cleanliness and timeliness when travelling Amtrak. Many new riders will simply find the experience intolerable. There are certainly some stellar employees and they are so good that they seem to be trying to make up for the do-nothings, but in a service oriented business a do-nothing is more likely to be remembered.

 

[VentureForth]

It seems to me that any Amtrak manager with a sense of pride in the organization would be pulling his or her hair out when reading horror stories such as the

But the job atrophy mold doesn't fit around all people. There are those who stay with their job for decades because they love it. At Disney, the passionate most helpful employees were the ones that were around the longest. The rudest, "I don't care" people? The college kids just there for three months for school credit.

 

I hope you don't mean ALL of the college kids (and I'm sure you don't).

My daughter interned at WDW in the Fall of 2009 (which is also when he dad died after a long period of ill health). I seriously doubt my daughter gave an attitude of "I don't care" even when she was depressed with her dad's passing.

Absolutely not. I just mean that attitude is found predominately amongst the part time, short time cast members. There are certainly many CP employees that LOVE the experience and some return full time.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

It seems to me that any Amtrak manager with a sense of pride in the organization would be pulling his or her hair out when reading horror stories such as the

But the job atrophy mold doesn't fit around all people. There are those who stay with their job for decades because they love it. At Disney, the passionate most helpful employees were the ones that were around the longest. The rudest, "I don't care" people? The college kids just there for three months for school credit.

 

I hope you don't mean ALL of the college kids (and I'm sure you don't).

My daughter interned at WDW in the Fall of 2009 (which is also when he dad died after a long period of ill health). I seriously doubt my daughter gave an attitude of "I don't care" even when she was depressed with her dad's passing.

Absolutely not. I just mean that attitude is found predominately amongst the part time, short time cast members. There are certainly many CP employees that LOVE the experience and some return full time.

I didn't think you did. But some people might get that impression from the way you stated it. Unfortunately there are too many people "out there" who will lump everyone under generalizations.

My daughter would love to work for Disney some time in the future. It's just not feasible at the moment with her living in Utah and just starting a family.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

VentureForth, Im sorry about your accident, and I hope you are ok.

I agree slimchipley that bad service is always more likely to get noticed first before good service will.

AmtrakBlue: I hope your daughter is doing well.

Now, hear me out on this one..or should I say read me out on this one

I understand and accept the fact that yes, there are bad workers out there, and there are unclean train situations, but there is a flipside to that, where a person rides Amtrak, and expects the attendants to be at their beck and call *like they own the train*, and for the train to be spit shined clean 100% of the time, so on and so forth. What happens when they dont have either one? Then they go on an Amtrak sucks/this person sucked because they didnt dot the i's and cross the t's like i wanted them too" rant. How many of those reports are taken into account? There are people out there that will nitpick Amtrak into oblivion, and that is fine, but there is the flipside of the coin, where there are great experiences, and great workers, and that has been my experience with Amtrak.

Also, people are less likely to report good situations, even on forums, why? because they are happy, and they dont feel the need to shout it to the world, they are happy and will quietly continue to ride Amtrak. The negative experience and experiencers are going to be angry, and likely way more vocal than the happy people.

Example: how many of you surf vehicle forums? I do, and how many posts on said forum do you see where people are like OMG, I love X,Y,Z. and my vehicle is fine. A few, but people will post about vehicle problems, and OMG I hate X,Y,Z. and they will vocalize it many times over. So it makes that brand look bad, when to be honest, the majority are happy with the experience.

Now, admittedly, I may not have been in situations that some of you other members have been in, so Im just going off of my experiences with Amtrak. Im not trying to upset anyone with my above paragraphs, Im just trying to look at things from all sides. So forgive me if the above sounds harsh or naive even. Im trying to learn and understand like everyone else here. I will admit, If i rode Amtrak way more often, like some of you do, then yes, maybe Id see the "bad service" or the "bad attendants", but so far, I havent. Does the negative side of Amtrak make my positive view of it invalid? I hope not, because after the awesome service I experienced a couple of days ago when rebooking my trip, that just made me love Amtrak even more. I have to remember to call Customer Relations and give them a good word about Danielle in the Reaccomodation Center.

Sorry for the novel of a post too, I feel the need to explain things sometimes

Ant

 

[Ryan]

Amtrak cant handle what is never reported. If people reported things more often, then maybe something would change. It takes the same amount of time to report an experience to Amtrak that it does to type it out here in a post.

It is certainly true that Amtrak can't handle what is never reported, however, after many reports (both good and bad), I get the impression that Amtrak (customer relations) can't (or won't) handle what is reported. How are these do-nothings evaluated and by whom?

It is true that not every complaint is acted on as it should be.

However, we know for a fact that some of them are, so it is always best to give Amtrak the feedback as often as is necessary. If everyone encountering some of those "problem" employees actually complained about them, I'm certain that you'd see a marked improvement in customer service.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Amtrak cant handle what is never reported. If people reported things more often, then maybe something would change. It takes the same amount of time to report an experience to Amtrak that it does to type it out here in a post.

It is certainly true that Amtrak can't handle what is never reported, however, after many reports (both good and bad), I get the impression that Amtrak (customer relations) can't (or won't) handle what is reported. How are these do-nothings evaluated and by whom?

It is true that not every complaint is acted on as it should be.

However, we know for a fact that some of them are, so it is always best to give Amtrak the feedback as often as is necessary. If everyone encountering some of those "problem" employees actually complained about them, I'm certain that you'd see a marked improvement in customer service.

This has been my experience as well. I do suspect that Amtrak takes a somewhat 'grain of salt' approach to complaints, as no one is going to please everyone 100% of the time. However, they will take action if they become convinced it is warrented.

Where exactly they set the bar, I can't say, and I'm not going to get into whether the bar is too high or too low, but to say it is pointless to call customer service is simply not true. Maybe your call will be the one to 'break the camel's back.' Either to take action against a bad employee, or to help a good employee get a good review, and that employee decides to stay working for Amtrak, when they were considering leaving.

 

[zephyr17]

Maybe Im just lucky, but Ive only met one employee *sunset limited #2 LFT-NOL* that was a bit gruff about lunch options. Although maybe Im lucky because Im outgoing, but I try to stay out of the way, enjoy the trip, and ask for as litttle as possible. Im pretty forgiving and can overlook certain things as well. *shrugs*

I see alot of these reports, dealing with the Texas Eagle, admittedly a train I havent ridden yet. Ive ridden the SL, CZ, CONO, *soon to ride the Crescent, LSL, and CONO again*, so I will let you all know how those trips go. All I can say is that I will report good and bad experiences to Amtrak and hope that things do change for the better, not just for me, but for the sake of all passengers as well.

You can't go by train, you can sort of see crew bases that seem to have more crew members with attitude (Chicago), but the individuals vary.

Over the course of riding Amtrak for 41 years, mostly on the Western LDs I have had bad service (sleeping car, dining car, or lounge) at various times on the Coast Starlight, the California Zephyr, the Empire Builder, the City of New Orleans, and the Silver Meteor that I can recall offhand. And I mean bad, just indifferent I ignore and basically forget. The very worst incidents were on the Coast Starlight, but that train also had some of better crews and that is by far the train I have ridden the most and so have more exposure and will see more good and bad than a train I ride very occasionally. I will say the best overall crews I have ever ridden with were the two times I rode the Sunset Limited. But that cannot be construed to mean the Starlight is "bad" and the Sunset is "good".

Overall, I would class the crew members I have ridden with as about 10-15% truly excellent, 25% good but not great, 30 or 40% adequate, and about 10% awful. A bell curve. But a service industry can't really afford a bell curve and a bell curve means the customer experience is going to be unpredictable.

This is not an insoluable problem. The railroads that cared about service really didn't have this problem (and with an equally unionized workforce, I will add). I simply cannot imagine some of these people working for Santa Fe, for example, and getting away with it. And I pre-Amtrak most of my train rides were on Santa Fe, with some on SP.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Yeah, I can shrug off the indifferent crew members.

Maybe part of it too is that all of my trips have been Coach, I just sorta accept Coach as it being what it is?

I depart tomorrow for my first trip via sleeper, so maybe thats when I will start noticing differences between crew members, and levels of service, then I can really compare how I was treated in Coach vs Sleeper. Maybe things will become easier to understand once I see what the difference is or can be. Right?

Im taking the Crescent to New York on Saturday morning, so thats either going to be a New Orleans based crew or a New York based crew. I hear that the New York based crew can be a bit.....ummm.indifferent maybe is the best word there. I had the New Orleans based crew on the CONO last year, and it was a fun experience, they were cordial and fun and just really laid back.

I know there are more factors involved, but I do understand what others are trying to get across too.

Ant

 

[OBS]

Yeah, I can shrug off the indifferent crew members.

Maybe part of it too is that all of my trips have been Coach, I just sorta accept Coach as it being what it is?

I depart tomorrow for my first trip via sleeper, so maybe thats when I will start noticing differences between crew members, and levels of service, then I can really compare how I was treated in Coach vs Sleeper. Maybe things will become easier to understand once I see what the difference is or can be. Right?

Im taking the Crescent to New York on Saturday morning, so thats either going to be a New Orleans based crew or a New York based crew. I hear that the New York based crew can be a bit.....ummm.indifferent maybe is the best word there. I had the New Orleans based crew on the CONO last year, and it was a fun experience, they were cordial and fun and just really laid back.

I know there are more factors involved, but I do understand what others are trying to get across too.

Ant

Ant, you will have a combination of crews. The dining car crew is NY based and the rest of the train is NOL based.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Thanks OBS, I thought I had read that here on the forum a while back, but I couldnt remember quite where.

 

[fulham]

I know the issue of inconsistent service has been discussed before, but it is a major issue that Amtrak has never been able to get a handle on. The roots of the problem, I believe, go back to Amtrak's founding and the attitude of the private railroads regarding passenger trains at the time. Some railroads still provided good service, but the largest one (Penn Central) did not. Also, when one looks at Amtrak's major hubs, (New York, Washington, Chicago) this was all prime Penn Central territory. One could argue that the Penn Central culture made its way into Amtrak and became so ingrained, that to this day, it still exists.

The other point is are these "bad apple" employees not paying attention to what is going on in Washington? Right now Amtrak is a piece of raw meat that the Republican "wolves" are just waiting to get at. If Romney gets elected there is a fairly good chance the gate will open and that will be it. The politicians who want to eliminate Amtrak cite its poor service as a reason to get rid of it. People who read this blog know that poor service exists, and it is very frustrating that Amtrak employees are playing right into the hands of the politicians (see John Mica) who want to eliminate the company and cause the loss of thousands of jobs and a national rail system.

I would really like to hear the opinions of any current and former Amtrak employees who follow this blog regarding this situation.

 

[OBS]

I know the issue of inconsistent service has been discussed before, but it is a major issue that Amtrak has never been able to get a handle on. The roots of the problem, I believe, go back to Amtrak's founding and the attitude of the private railroads regarding passenger trains at the time. Some railroads still provided good service, but the largest one (Penn Central) did not. Also, when one looks at Amtrak's major hubs, (New York, Washington, Chicago) this was all prime Penn Central territory. One could argue that the Penn Central culture made its way into Amtrak and became so ingrained, that to this day, it still exists.

The other point is are these "bad apple" employees not paying attention to what is going on in Washington? Right now Amtrak is a piece of raw meat that the Republican "wolves" are just waiting to get at. If Romney gets elected there is a fairly good chance the gate will open and that will be it. The politicians who want to eliminate Amtrak cite its poor service as a reason to get rid of it. People who read this blog know that poor service exists, and it is very frustrating that Amtrak employees are playing right into the hands of the politicians (see John Mica) who want to eliminate the company and cause the loss of thousands of jobs and a national rail system.

I would really like to hear the opinions of any current and former Amtrak employees who follow this blog regarding this situation.

A couple comments...The OBS unions have gone out of their way to emphasize to employees the seriousness of the election, as well as the best way to protect your job (do it correctly). Unfortunately, the worst performers are also the employees who either don't care or don't think it will affect them (head in the sand).

In regards to the PC culture, when I hired on (1980's) there were many still around from PC and other RR's but most of those still carried the polish and professionalism that the RR's were known for. Over the years, Amtrak's hiring judgement has gone from good to outrageous and back again (IMHO). But in last 5 years or so i have observed a greater focus on hiring/training/weeding out during probation period, as well as greater emphasis on improving/terminating problem employees.

Are things perfect? Obviously not. But in terms of overall quality, the needle is slowly edging in the right direction...again MHO.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

I think the thing to remember is that changes do take time. People cant expect Amtrak to change overnight, it will happen in stages. Rome wasnt built in a day so to speak.

Some people have gotten into the habit of "I want things to change and I want it right now.". Patience is a virtue. The truth is, we dont know what changes are being made behind the scenes, and hopefully the good changes will start to be seen soon. I have hope that things will change for the better.

Ant

 

[NW cannonball]

I think the thing to remember is that changes do take time. People cant expect Amtrak to change overnight, it will happen in stages. Rome wasnt built in a day so to speak.

Some people have gotten into the habit of "I want things to change and I want it right now.". Patience is a virtue. The truth is, we dont know what changes are being made behind the scenes, and hopefully the good changes will start to be seen soon. I have hope that things will change for the better.

Ant

Yeah, well, I generally like riding Amtrak, but - what do SCA'S do? - put out a juice thing in the morning - make a pot of coffee. Hide away until you can find them after nightfall, and when you finally find the person they stomp on a foot-lever and throw your bedding on the bed. Which you could do yourself whenever you want to. For this I should give a generous tip? I just don't get it - having an employee to supervise and watch for terrorists and keep control of the various train spaces -- maybe - probably -- . Maybe throw some towels from the platform to the shower room.

I try to be considerate of the SCA'S -- BUT REALLY, what are they there for? Not to give service - just to be there? Anybody can stomp on the lever and lower the bed for themselves. Maybe one SCA per train, to help the noobs? not one per car?

I could clean the toilet myself, like they do on Navy ships - it would be as clean - heh.

What are Sleeping Car Attendants supposed to do? For me they are just there - no help, no use, wish they didn't demand to lower the berth because I can do it myself, thanks.

No wonder they get grumpy - anyone useless gets grumpy after a while.

l let them arrange the bunk, not because I need it, because they are peones - you must pay them - a tiny bit - which is what they are paid.

It's a total throwback to the ages of slavery and serfdom and peones.

Of course they get grumpy after a while -- I just ignore em.

In the Dining car - the staff always delivers the meal - tip accordingy.

In the Sleeping car - the SCA is mostly irrelevent, knows it, what can a passenger do?

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Well, Im about to take my first ever sleeper trip, so I cant answer that one for you.

 

[NW cannonball]

Well, Im about to take my first ever sleeper trip, so I cant answer that one for you.

Good for you - hope you enjoy your trip.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Ill make a nice trip report when I get back

By the way, I hope my response didnt sound sarcastic, if it did, it wasnt meant to be.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

I think the thing to remember is that changes do take time. People cant expect Amtrak to change overnight, it will happen in stages. Rome wasnt built in a day so to speak.

Some people have gotten into the habit of "I want things to change and I want it right now.". Patience is a virtue. The truth is, we dont know what changes are being made behind the scenes, and hopefully the good changes will start to be seen soon. I have hope that things will change for the better.

Ant

I could clean the toilet myself, like they do on Navy ships - it would be as clean - heh.

What are Sleeping Car Attendants supposed to do? For me they are just there - no help, no use, wish they didn't demand to lower the berth because I can do it myself, thanks.

No wonder they get grumpy - anyone useless gets grumpy after a while.

l let them arrange the bunk, not because I need it, because they are peones - you must pay them - a tiny bit - which is what they are paid.

It's a total throwback to the ages of slavery and serfdom and peones.

Of course they get grumpy after a while -- I just ignore em.

REALLY? :unsure:

I've done a lot of LD sleeper travel in the last couple of years and I have to disagree. SCAs do a heck of a lot and IMHO put up with some pretty bad pax. I've had some bad SCAs, but the majority have been quite good.

 

[NW cannonball]

Ill make a nice trip report when I get back

By the way, I hope my response didnt sound sarcastic, if it did, it wasnt meant to be.

Not at all, I think my own post was much more offensive to some, but take your trip, enjoy it - travelling Amtrak is usually real good.

When you've tried it - you'll probably like it - talk to your SCA if they are willing.