Conservatives and Mass Transit: all aboard !

[WICT106]

See link: Politics Daily: Conservatives and mass transit, or why so many conservatives do not like mass transit and rail.

Exerpt:

"Effete liberals love mass transit and red-blooded American conservatives disdain it, right?That's the stereotype, all right. Libs love their commuter trains, while we conservatives dig our pickup trucks. There's surely something to those images, but a new book titled, "Moving Minds; Conservatives and Public Transportation," seeks to lead some 21st century conservatives to rethink their view of riding the subway."

"For starters, their book seeks to shape conservatives' views on mass transit by pointing out that our current system is anything but the product of free market forces.

Since the invention of the Model T, the U.S. government has poured hundreds of billions of dollars into the highway system, while mass transit (which historically had been privately owned) received vastly smaller infrastructure benefits -- while being taxed heavily to boot. What's more, the government simultaneously prohibited these mass transit companies from raising fares.

Privately owned mass transit companies simply could not compete when they had to build and maintain infrastructure while their competition was funded by tax dollars. In addition, the authors note that post-World War II building codes in many areas created sprawl – a situation where homeowners cannot walk to work or to shop, and thus, must rely on an automobile. The authors present numerous and convincing arguments in favor of mass transit."

"The book also challenges . . . the notion that trains often have empty seats. Most cars on the road during rush hours have three empty seats."

Comment below.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

More food for thought;

A Train Running A Profit is Charging Too Much

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

I consider myself a conservative/republican (although Im pretty much ready to drop any part affiliation) , but I support Amtrak and mass transit, because of this when my stance became known to several other conservatives I know pretty wrote me off as no good card carrying communist.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I consider myself a conservative/republican, but I support Amtrak and mass transit, because of this when my stance became known to several other conservatives I know pretty wrote me off as no good card carrying communist.

There's a real difference between a real conservative, an old time Republican (the party of Lincoln) and the Red hot T- Party yahoos running around with guns and signs with hateful, untrue slogans and disgusting pictures! I'm an old fashioned LBJ libreal Democrat but the new libreals would read me out of their clique because I'm a patriot who believes in security and National defense of our beloved country ( I was totally against the Vietnam and Iraq fiascos but understand the need to fight terrorists, there is a real threat in Iran,Afghanistanand other terrorists havens that we must defeat!)

Doesnt matter what your political beliefs are if you enjoy riding trains, suport all things Railroad like most of us do! Guess that make us old fashioned conservatives since we believe in things that were good in our past that deserve preserving and improving!

 

[volkris]

More food for thought;A Train Running A Profit is Charging Too Much

It just replaces one subjective assertion with another, slightly less substantiated one: "ALL the beneficiaries should pay, not just the users."

There's no written in stone rule that nobody can derive a benefit unless he pays. The levels of indirection and difficulty of monetizing abstract benefits make it that much easier to reject the position taken by the article.

 

[jphjaxfl]

Many of the conservatives I know won't use public transportation including Amtrak because they feel its below their station in life. They may have to rub shoulders with people that are different than they are. Its almost like its a class thing with them. Its just the opposite for me. I enjoy meeting people of all types and their status in life is of no concern to me.

 

[caravanman]

Why always "Effete Liberals" ? Seems to me that those of us who truly care about the disadvantaged in society, at a cost to our own personal wealth, are

active and big hearted in a way that those who wish to spend their wealth just on themselves are not.

My blood seems red to me, or maybe it could be a shade of pinko ...

Ed

 

[lepearso]

I'm a Conservative Republican on fiscal and social issues, and I support mass transit. I support Amtrak, however I do not condone several aspects of their corporate culture.

In my circle of like-minded friends, you would be surprised how many of us support passenger rail, including subsidies. Yes, there are those who think that government funding of transit and intercity rail is a form of communism, but they are completely wrong. I firmly believe that we can and we should have a smaller federal government, but that a national transportation policy, including rail, is perfectly in line with our conservative values.

 

[PRR 60]

Many of the conservatives I know won't use public transportation including Amtrak because they feel its below their station in life. They may have to rub shoulders with people that are different than they are. Its almost like its a class thing with them. Its just the opposite for me. I enjoy meeting people of all types and their status in life is of no concern to me.

I really love stereotyping.

It great to know that conservatives are snobs who will not use public transportation because they don't like rubbing shoulders with the "little people." Thank you for that valuable piece of information. I'll have to try to alter my behavior to match your expectations.

I just curious how "many" conservatives you know, how do you know they're "conservatives", and exactly what is a "conservative?" I'm very glad you like meeting people of all types and status. That's a wonderful trait, except, of course, if they are what you have predefined as a "conservative", then maybe you're not so happy to meet them.

Looks to me like class snobs come in all political colors.

 

[transit54]

I'm a Conservative Republican on fiscal and social issues, and I support mass transit. I support Amtrak, however I do not condone several aspects of their corporate culture.
In my circle of like-minded friends, you would be surprised how many of us support passenger rail, including subsidies. Yes, there are those who think that government funding of transit and intercity rail is a form of communism, but they are completely wrong. I firmly believe that we can and we should have a smaller federal government, but that a national transportation policy, including rail, is perfectly in line with our conservative values.

I just wish we could see more of this on a national scale. While I generally consider myself a liberal, I could easily get behind a Republican who believed in curbing government spending but ensuring a balanced transportation policy and a commitment to reasonable (and preferably market based and efficient) regulation on some issues. And someone who is not beholden to the corporate interests, either - but that's a problem on both sides of the aisle.

 

[henryj]

I consider myself a conservative/republican (although Im pretty much ready to drop any part affiliation) , but I support Amtrak and mass transit, because of this when my stance became known to several other conservatives I know pretty wrote me off as no good card carrying communist.

Well I live in the Houston, Texas area and we had Tom Delay as our representative in Congress. We still have Culbertson. And former Mayor Bob Lanier who hated light rail once proposed using 'Jitneys' for Houston's mass transit system. These people are dinosaurs. With this kind of representation you can understand why rail transport has taken a back seat down here. I am a so called conservative/Republican also, with radical Republican friends that absolutely are opposed to anything that runs on rails or even looks like it can. I have never understood them or the Republican parties stance on public transport. They need to wake up and change their tune on this subject. Their arguments just don't make any sense and are short sighted and just plain stupid. Hopefully, now that Obama and Biden have opened the debate on passenger rail and high speed rail this will change for the better.

 

[Ryan]

Many of the conservatives I know won't use public transportation including Amtrak because they feel its below their station in life. They may have to rub shoulders with people that are different than they are. Its almost like its a class thing with them. Its just the opposite for me. I enjoy meeting people of all types and their status in life is of no concern to me.

I really love stereotyping.

It great to know that conservatives are snobs who will not use public transportation because they don't like rubbing shoulders with the "little people." Thank you for that valuable piece of information. I'll have to try to alter my behavior to match your expectations.

I just curious how "many" conservatives you know, how do you know they're "conservatives", and exactly what is a "conservative?" I'm very glad you like meeting people of all types and status. That's a wonderful trait, except, of course, if they are what you have predefined as a "conservative", then maybe you're not so happy to meet them.

Looks to me like class snobs come in all political colors.

How the heck is that stereotyping? He didn't say "all conservatives" were like that, but that "many of the ones that I know". I guess some conservatives are just easily offended?

 

[WICT106]

One quick little comment here: I'm kind of right-ward leaning myself, and purchased this book in order to better acquaint myself with pro-rail arguments that I could use in the event that I encounter those who are anti- rail, and anti-transit. This post was not intended as a criticism of those who are anti-transit. How can we best argue in favor of better service and additional service with those who are opposed to spending (except when it happens to benefit them) ?

 

[jis]

Many of the conservatives I know won't use public transportation including Amtrak because they feel its below their station in life. They may have to rub shoulders with people that are different than they are. Its almost like its a class thing with them. Its just the opposite for me. I enjoy meeting people of all types and their status in life is of no concern to me.

I really love stereotyping.

It great to know that conservatives are snobs who will not use public transportation because they don't like rubbing shoulders with the "little people." Thank you for that valuable piece of information. I'll have to try to alter my behavior to match your expectations.

I just curious how "many" conservatives you know, how do you know they're "conservatives", and exactly what is a "conservative?" I'm very glad you like meeting people of all types and status. That's a wonderful trait, except, of course, if they are what you have predefined as a "conservative", then maybe you're not so happy to meet them.

It seems to me like you may be overreacting a bit. Reading what the OP said it is quite clear that his/her statement applies only to "many of the conservatives s/he knows", not even all of them, let alone all conservatives, which you seem to be assuming is what s/he is saying, in order to think that it is "stereotyping".

Secondly, it is not clear to me from the OP's message whether by his/her own measure the OP considers him/herself to be a conservative or not. This would have a bearing on the stereotyping issue too since the OP claims that s/he is very different from the "many of his/her conservative friends" that s/he talks about. For all you know the OP may be a conservative by some measure sharing many traits with you, assuming of course that you consider yourself to be a conservative by the same or similar measures.

One of the real problem hindering meaningful communication IMHO is with the ambiguities involved with the sweeping categorizing terms like "conservative" and "liberal", together with the politically motivated ascribed meanings to them by various sides of the political spectrum in the US, which seems to give them a meaning sometimes far removed from the usual meanings ascribed to those words in the rest of the world. Sigh..

But now this has very little to do with railroads anymore so I will just shut up :-X

 

[DET63]

There's a real difference between a real conservative, an old time Republican (the party of Lincoln) and the Red hot T- Party yahoos running around with guns and signs with hateful, untrue slogans and disgusting pictures!

Talk about stereotyping!

 

[jphjaxfl]

Many of the conservatives I know won't use public transportation including Amtrak because they feel its below their station in life. They may have to rub shoulders with people that are different than they are. Its almost like its a class thing with them. Its just the opposite for me. I enjoy meeting people of all types and their status in life is of no concern to me.

I really love stereotyping.

It great to know that conservatives are snobs who will not use public transportation because they don't like rubbing shoulders with the "little people." Thank you for that valuable piece of information. I'll have to try to alter my behavior to match your expectations.

I just curious how "many" conservatives you know, how do you know they're "conservatives", and exactly what is a "conservative?" I'm very glad you like meeting people of all types and status. That's a wonderful trait, except, of course, if they are what you have predefined as a "conservative", then maybe you're not so happy to meet them.

Looks to me like class snobs come in all political colors.

I wasn't stereotyping. I was referring to a number of people I know and work with who consider themselves to be conservative on most issues. They are also blantantly against subsidies for public transportation including bus systems and rail systems because they never have and probably never would use these. These people fly or drive but they don't consider those forms of transportation heavily subsidized and even if you show them figures they will reply "well thats what we pay taxes for". These people look at me strangely because I would take public transportation with the masses or ride on a passenger train with "strange" people or have to sit with complete strangers in the dining car. I consider myself to be middle of the road. I don't support one party or the other, but I vote in every election based on candidates merits. One of the reasons I enjoy traveling by train or public transportation is just opposite of my conservative acquaintances. I enjoy the people I meet without any regard to who they are.

 

[sunchaser]

There's a real difference between a real conservative, an old time Republican (the party of Lincoln) and the Red hot T- Party yahoos running around with guns and signs with hateful, untrue slogans and disgusting pictures!

Talk about stereotyping!

Hear hear!

I have many experiences with gun toting, pick up driving, racist, stingy, women using, anti God, hateful, beer swilling rednecks.

The people I am referring to for the most part would never use public transportation, & consider riding the train "beneath their station"-whatever that is.

Almost every job that we have worked over the years, we took the bus/light rail.

I regularly took the bus to buy groceries.

We did this for decades, we owned cars, but they were always used & broke down a lot.

Most of the people we worked with drove to work & certainly would not take a bus or train.

They would only fly or -shudder- drive if they couldn't afford to fly.

The first group of people I am referring is our families, both sides, who are all democrats.

The second group were also for the most part democrats/liberals too. This would include friends as well.

You can stereotype all you want. You will find on both sides of the aisle, gun toting, pick up truck driving, hateful, racist, stingy, anti God, who use & mistreat people.

My experience, however has not been that it is more common with republicans/conservatives.

We enjoy riding the train, & we are conservatives.

Since I have been on this board I have been very cautious about responding to these types of threads because usually the name calling starts in against conservatives/liberals-usually against conservatives-just should not happen. We should be able to discuss the issues of train riding without resorting to name calling.

So can we talk about trains now? I would love to see any constructive ways to support passenger trains! I know we always talk about more money, where do we think all that money is coming from? It's either printed, or it comes from us! I will now step down from my soap box.

 

[coxm50]

I also consider myself conservative and love Amtrak and and light rail, although many of my friends think I'm crazy for it.

 

[Trainmans daughter]

How informative! Until this thread, I had no idea that train travel or public transportation was loved by liberals and scorned by conservatives! I didn't know it was a political thing.

And here I am, a God-loving, gun toting, train-loving, Libertarian Tea Partier. Where do I fit in?

 

[WICT106]

How informative! Until this thread, I had no idea that train travel or public transportation was loved by liberals and scorned by conservatives! I didn't know it was a political thing.
And here I am, a God-loving, gun toting, train-loving, Libertarian Tea Partier. Where do I fit in?

You fit in here. Several of us are conservative, and pro-rail.

 

[Ryan]

There's a real difference between a real conservative, an old time Republican (the party of Lincoln) and the Red hot T- Party yahoos running around with guns and signs with hateful, untrue slogans and disgusting pictures!

Talk about stereotyping!

That's not stereotyping either! Jim's just (correctly, IMO) pointing out that the "liberal/conservative" labels aren't worth a whole lot, since both groups of people probably would self-identify as "conservative", but have vastly different beliefs (and the kind of discussion tactics that would work on one aren't likely to work on the other!).

 

[sunchaser]

How informative! Until this thread, I had no idea that train travel or public transportation was loved by liberals and scorned by conservatives! I didn't know it was a political thing.
And here I am, a God-loving, gun toting, train-loving, Libertarian Tea Partier. Where do I fit in?

You fit in here. Several of us are conservative, and pro-rail.

I hope we all can fit in here.

I was actually quite surprised when I found that the general opinion here was that conservatives are against public transportation and train travel. As I mentioned earlier, that has not been my experience. I hope I have not offended anyone with my earlier comments, I just wanted to point out that each side has their share of problem children.

 

[JayPea]

Count me in as part of the conservative but pro-rail crowd.

 

[pennyk]

I am one of those that people they call very liberal, progressive, socialist, etc. (however, I think I am somewhat of a fiscal moderate). Most of my moderate to conservative friends are neutral with regard to train travel, but pretty much against public funding of the trains. The same folks that are against government funding wonder why the trains in Europe are always on time and our trains are not.

BTW - thanks Jim for your insight.

 

[Guest]

How informative! Until this thread, I had no idea that train travel or public transportation was loved by liberals and scorned by conservatives! I didn't know it was a political thing.
And here I am, a God-loving, gun toting, train-loving, Libertarian Tea Partier. Where do I fit in?

I am just confused as how a libertarian got mixed in with the "tea partiers". I thought that was just for rabid republicans.