Could this work?

[GP35]

Freight railroads do not like reefer service. I'm sure they are starting to feel the fuel cost for the reefer.

So why not the Freight sub-contract out the service to Amtrak. Modify the reefer to accept HEP while connected

to a passenger train and its own power in a yard. Freight railroad saves money, Amtrak make a littlev extra money.

 

[the_traveler]

It might, but there are thousands of reefers around the country. You never know where they will end up. So you couldn't just modify a few.

Plus just using the SWC as an example, if the reefer needs to go to KC, Amtrak would need a switcher in KC to take it off. And if it goes from ABQ to FLG, Amtrak would need a loco in each city to put it on and/or take it off. And don't forget about the delays it would add for the switching!

 

[Rail Freak]

Freight railroads do not like reefer service. I'm sure they are starting to feel the fuel cost for the reefer. So why not the Freight sub-contract out the service to Amtrak. Modify the reefer to accept HEP while connected

to a passenger train and its own power in a yard. Freight railroad saves money, Amtrak make a littlev extra money.

Reefer service? (like Jimmy Buffet?)

 

[Guest]

...something to do with refrigeration.

 

[GP35]

It might, but there are thousands of reefers around the country. You never know where they will end up. So you couldn't just modify a few.
Plus just using the SWC as an example, if the reefer needs to go to KC, Amtrak would need a switcher in KC to take it off. And if it goes from ABQ to FLG, Amtrak would need a loco in each city to put it on and/or take it off. And don't forget about the delays it would add for the switching!

No they wouldn't. The reefer would still be under the freight railroads. Amtrak is only doing the pulling cross country and power during the pulling.

Amtrak SWC would stop in the KC yard, a yard its already pass through, uncouple 2 reefers, then leave. At that point the reefer is back with

the host freight railroad. The reefer power would turn on and the freight switcher would grab the cut for delivery.

 

[wayman]

No they wouldn't. The reefer would still be under the freight railroads. Amtrak is only doing the pulling cross country and power during the pulling.Amtrak SWC would stop in the KC yard, a yard its already pass through, uncouple 2 reefers, then leave. At that point the reefer is back with

the host freight railroad. The reefer power would turn on and the freight switcher would grab the cut for delivery.

What, they'd just leave two cars sitting on the main when they pull out of the station? I agree, they're BNSF's responsibility at that point (er, KC=BNSF, right?), but I kinda doubt the dispatcher would be pleased with that as a situation and thus would be reluctant to get into it. Then again, the cost of having a BNSF switcher sitting there ready to run in, pick up those two cars, and run them out to the yard proper might be way, way less than transporting them long distance. And if Amtrak just tacks them on the end of the train like all the old express cars tailing the Three Rivers, it's not a lot of work for them at all.

The big deal then becomes, how much does it delay Amtrak to wait for those cars to be put on and taken off? That was why Amtrak got out of the business in the first place, no, that it was delaying passenger service?

 

[AlanB]

The big deal then becomes, how much does it delay Amtrak to wait for those cars to be put on and taken off? That was why Amtrak got out of the business in the first place, no, that it was delaying passenger service?

That was part of the reason, yes. It was also not making money for Amtrak, it was loosing money for them and it was making the freight RR's angry since Amtrak was stealing their business in effect and not having to pay extra fees for hauling the freight on their tracks.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

The only case I can see where I think this would have any chance of making sense is if those were express refrigerator cars running on trains that carried mail and not passengers, because the switching delays do not mix well with trains that have passengers. I think if we ever build a sufficiently extensive high speed network, such mail trains may make sense (especially when you look at how the French TGV system does have mail cars).

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

It might, but there are thousands of reefers around the country. You never know where they will end up. So you couldn't just modify a few.
Plus just using the SWC as an example, if the reefer needs to go to KC, Amtrak would need a switcher in KC to take it off. And if it goes from ABQ to FLG, Amtrak would need a loco in each city to put it on and/or take it off. And don't forget about the delays it would add for the switching!

No they wouldn't. The reefer would still be under the freight railroads. Amtrak is only doing the pulling cross country and power during the pulling.

Amtrak SWC would stop in the KC yard, a yard its already pass through, uncouple 2 reefers, then leave. At that point the reefer is back with

the host freight railroad. The reefer power would turn on and the freight switcher would grab the cut for delivery.

Back to basics. It sounds all well and good, but this sorta defeats the purpose of WHY Amtrak was created in the first place (at least as far as the long distance network)!!!

OBS gone freight...

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

The big deal then becomes, how much does it delay Amtrak to wait for those cars to be put on and taken off? That was why Amtrak got out of the business in the first place, no, that it was delaying passenger service?

and it was making the freight RR's angry since Amtrak was stealing their business in effect and not having to pay extra fees for hauling the freight on their tracks.

That's actually one of the main reasons right there! Amtrak was created to operate the passenger component with the freight component hauling the cargo.

OBS gone freight...

 

[GP35]

It failed before because Amtrak took a boneheaded approach. No switching is needed. Amtrak pull into a siding, drop off, pick up, then go. 5 minutes. Smoking stops

last longer. Done correctly it can be successful. Extra revenue can't hurt.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

It failed before because Amtrak took a boneheaded approach. No switching is needed. Amtrak pull into a siding, drop off, pick up, then go. 5 minutes. Smoking stopslast longer. Done correctly it can be successful. Extra revenue can't hurt.

I won't argue with you with the "done correctly it can be successful" part. But my friend, I don't know how familiar you are with railroad operations, but it is easier said than done! There are many varibles which may come into play.

OBS gone freight...

 

[GP35]

It failed before because Amtrak took a boneheaded approach. No switching is needed. Amtrak pull into a siding, drop off, pick up, then go. 5 minutes. Smoking stopslast longer. Done correctly it can be successful. Extra revenue can't hurt.

I won't argue with you with the "done correctly it can be successful" part. But my friend, I don't know how familiar you are with railroad operations, but it is easier said than done! There are many varibles which may come into play.

OBS gone freight...

I would already have the cars in order for drop off. Mon/Wed/Fri drop off, Tues/Thurs/SAT pick ups. Amtrak

pull over to its designated siding, stop, uncouple, go. The rest is the freight problems.

 

[AlanB]

It failed before because Amtrak took a boneheaded approach. No switching is needed. Amtrak pull into a siding, drop off, pick up, then go. 5 minutes. Smoking stopslast longer. Done correctly it can be successful. Extra revenue can't hurt.

I won't argue with you with the "done correctly it can be successful" part. But my friend, I don't know how familiar you are with railroad operations, but it is easier said than done! There are many varibles which may come into play.

OBS gone freight...

And your forgetting that the freight RR's aren't going to want to pay Amtrak to do something that they can do. If it really becomes that important that refrigerated stuff needs to move that rapidly, they'll just get together with UPS and a few other people, along with the fridge crowd and start creating more hotshot trains.

Freight's can already go 70 MPH without special equipment on the same tracks that allow Amtrak to run at 79 MPH. When you factor in station stops for Amtrak, a speed difference of 9 MPH isn't going to get the refers to their destination any faster.

But there is no way that it's going to be cheaper for a freight RR to let Amtrak haul stuff for them, unless maybe they just waive their normal track fees from Amtrak and drop that revenue. And I don't know that Amtrak would agree to that.

And then you come back to the idea that most sidings aren't going to be at a place where Amtrak can hold a smoking stop. So now you've got angry passengers who are wondering why they are sitting for 5 minutes, when the train is already an hour or more late, to drop off a lowly freight car.

I appreciate that you're thinking of ways to increase Amtrak's revenue, but again there is a reason that Amtrak stopped doing this. In fact, even after dropping most of the Express Trak stuff, Amtrak was forced for a while to continue hauling refer service for stuff coming out of the State of Washington. But even that eventually was stopped because it doesn't work and it doesn't pay enough.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

GP35, can I suggest you look into history? Amtrak has tried a variety of methods to make themselves profitable. And believe me, they tried. We came within a hairsbreadth of losing Amtrak at the turn of the century, and even closer to losing ALL of the long distance services. Liquidation plans were drawn up and everything. Amtrak tried as hard as it could to succeed the glide-path to self sufficiency. It failed miserably.

Remember this word: Footprint. Amtrak's success depends almost solely on their footprint. That is, their impact on the country and the world around them. Kummant and others are very smart to concentrate on ridership! If Amtrak's long distance trains end up moving 10 million people each year, or more, its very hard to simply abolish something with such a large foot print. You follow?

If the new bill passes with one of its key requirements, the lack of need for profit from Amtrak, everything will be much better. They can spend more time concentrating on expanding their services rather than making money. The more people they move, the heavier they are. The heavier they are, the harder they are to get rid of.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

It failed before because Amtrak took a boneheaded approach. No switching is needed. Amtrak pull into a siding, drop off, pick up, then go. 5 minutes. Smoking stopslast longer. Done correctly it can be successful. Extra revenue can't hurt.

I won't argue with you with the "done correctly it can be successful" part. But my friend, I don't know how familiar you are with railroad operations, but it is easier said than done! There are many varibles which may come into play.

OBS gone freight...

I would already have the cars in order for drop off. Mon/Wed/Fri drop off, Tues/Thurs/SAT pick ups. Amtrak

pull over to its designated siding, stop, uncouple, go. The rest is the freight problems.

Well, like as mentioned earlier, it is "easier said than done!" What you say "can be done" as well as "what you personally would have done" compared to what "actually gets done and how" are two very different scenarios! I believe Amtrak should do just what they are doing now, and that is stick to the basics for what it was initially created for! That is operate "passenger rail service!" Let the freights handle the freight componet! AlanB covers that in better detail in his above post. Also, please remember that back in late 2005 and through early 2006, Amtrak was close to being done in and shut down! And mindful, a big part of the equation was connected to politics (regarding Amtrak's subsidy as usual), but a big portion was attributed to the stance certain leaders at Amtrak took on this "glide to self sufficiency" path! Green Maned Lion pretty much has that covered for you in his above posting! I can tell you first hand that all that was very damaging to Amtrak's well being at the time. I was so worried for my job at that time that it is one of the several reasons I left Amtrak to go freight!!! And I will state I really miss some of the little perks as well as some of the better conditions at Amtrak, but I am still happy I made that decision. It has helped in many ways, though I have paid for it a little bit by leaving Amtrak which now would be even more secure than it was then being things changed in time! You fellow railroaders know what I am talking about (yep..seniority)!!!

OBS gone freight...