Daily Sunset is on Gunn's plate

[Amfleet]

According to a recent Rail Travel News news posting on March 4 Gunn does want to see a daily Sunset Limited.

David Gunn wants to see a daily Sunset, as capital money becomes available for additional equipment.  A fourth frequency may be in the works for the next year or two depending upon rebuilding of equipment.

This also from Gene Poon on the All-Aboard list.

A fourth frequency has been under discussion since November.  The mostlikely scenario doesn't seem to be a full-route fourth Sunset, but a

fourth Los Angeles-San Antonio frequency, partly utilizing equipment

that now lays over in San Antonio for an excessive length of time.

 

[Viewliner]

I guess that would be a realsitic start at it, and pratical, as it gives a way for that equipment to be utilized for revenue. I still would rather see something like say upgrading the Cardinal to Superliners (and Viewliners going to the Palmetto if we can) first. But a daily Sunset should definitely be a mid-long term goal.

 

[Amfleet]

I guess that would be a realsitic start at it, and pratical, as it gives a way for that equipment to be utilized for revenue. I still would rather see something like say upgrading the Cardinal to Superliners (and Viewliners going to the Palmetto if we can) first. But a daily Sunset should definitely be a mid-long term goal.

Regarding the Cardinal, I bet it is getting more revenue by going up to New York as it is getting more of a Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, and Indiana market. I would suspect it does say single level, but a Dining Car, another Sleeper, and a daily schedule would be nice. Maybe that will happen once new Heritage replacments are ordere.

 

[battalion51]

IMHO, the Palmetto bug needs that sleeping car and dining car more. The Cardinal has options as equipment goes, with the possiblity of Superliners that the Palmetto bug does not. I'd rather see the Cardinal as a Superliner train personally.

 

[Amfleet]

I think both the Palmetto and Cardinal need to be fully equipped (sleepers, diner, lounge, etc), daily, single level trains that run to NYC. However, if Amtrak goes one way or the other, ridership probably won't change. Though taking both moves will certainly help revenue.

 

[Chatter163]

I do not see making the Cardinal (or any Viewliner) a Superliner as an "upgrade."

I am taking the Cardinal in June from New York to Indianapolis. I have a deluxe sleeper and there will be a full service dining car at that time. There will, however, be no baggage car.

 

[battalion51]

Well technically a Superliner set is an upgrade, more possible revenue with fewer a cars. Right now a fully equipped Cardinal requires:

1 P-42

1 Baggage Car

1 Heritage Crew Dorm

1 Viewliner Sleeper

1 Heritage Diner

1 Amfleet II Lounge

3 Amfleet II Coaches

Meanwhile a Superliner set would only require

1 P-42

1 Baggage Car

1 Superliner Trans Dorm

1 Superliner Sleeper

1 Superliner Diner

1 Superliner Sightseer Lounge

2 Superliner Coaches

You use one less car for coaches because the Superliner Coaches have higher capacities. Also the Superliner Sleeper has 14 Standard Rooms, 5 Deluxe Rooms, 1 Handicap room, and 1 Family room (total 21 rooms). Meanwhile the Viewliner has only 12 Standard Rooms, 2 Deluxe Rooms, and 1 Handicap Room. So Amtrak can make more money with fewer cars on a Superliner Set. Also, for this route the height and large windows in the Sightseer Lounge are great for the scenery.

 

[engine999]

Well technically a Superliner set is an upgrade, more possible revenue with fewer a cars. Right now a fully equipped Cardinal requires:
1 P-42

1 Baggage Car

1 Heritage Crew Dorm

1 Viewliner Sleeper

1 Heritage Diner

1 Amfleet II Lounge

3 Amfleet II Coaches

Meanwhile a Superliner set would only require

1 P-42

1 Baggage Car

1 Superliner Trans Dorm

1 Superliner Sleeper

1 Superliner Diner

1 Superliner Sightseer Lounge

2 Superliner Coaches

You use one less car for coaches because the Superliner Coaches have higher capacities. Also the Superliner Sleeper has 14 Standard Rooms, 5 Deluxe Rooms, 1 Handicap room, and 1 Family room (total 21 rooms). Meanwhile the Viewliner has only 12 Standard Rooms, 2 Deluxe Rooms, and 1 Handicap Room. So Amtrak can make more money with fewer cars on a Superliner Set. Also, for this route the height and large windows in the Sightseer Lounge are great for the scenery.

There is aslight problem with your reasoning, the Cardinal has had increased ridership scince it was pushed to NYP. Superliners prevent the train from runnin in there, which may cut back ridership unless an easy connection at DC is well advertised by amtrak. Anyone know why amtrak is not putting the baggage car on the cardinal till october?

 

[battalion51]

Damaged baggage cars from Derailments or accidents are not available. Amtrak only owns about 80 cars, which when streched across the entire system leaves them a few short.

 

[engine999]

Damaged baggage cars from Derailments or accidents are not available. Amtrak only owns about 80 cars, which when streched across the entire system leaves them a few short.

wow, I didn't realize they had that few.

 

[Chatter163]

OK, I see what you mean by "upgrade." You are referring to the revenue potential for Amtrak, rather than the level of accomodations for passengers.

 

[battalion51]

Precisely. The comfort level is about the same between the Superliner and single level fleet, since the equipment has very similar interiors (only difference being the lack of toilets in Standard rooms and second row of windows in the sleepers). Overall a Superliner set is cheaper to operate/maintain and produces more revenue per car than a single level set. This is precisely why just about every railroad gets two levels where they can (bi-level coaches, double stack freight trains, multi level auto carriers) because you can do more with the same number of cars.

 

[engine999]

Precisely. The comfort level is about the same between the Superliner and single level fleet, since the equipment has very similar interiors (only difference being the lack of toilets in Standard rooms and second row of windows in the sleepers). Overall a Superliner set is cheaper to operate/maintain and produces more revenue per car than a single level set. This is precisely why just about every railroad gets two levels where they can (bi-level coaches, double stack freight trains, multi level auto carriers) because you can do more with the same number of cars.

Yeah, there was a rumor that amtrak was going to phase out the signle level cars on long distance trains. So hypothetically the silver service trains would end at washington and passengers would transfer to a corridor train.

 

[battalion51]

That's a really old rumor, with zero validity.

 

[Viewliner]

Precisely. The comfort level is about the same between the Superliner and single level fleet, since the equipment has very similar interiors (only difference being the lack of toilets in Standard rooms and second row of windows in the sleepers). Overall a Superliner set is cheaper to operate/maintain and produces more revenue per car than a single level set. This is precisely why just about every railroad gets two levels where they can (bi-level coaches, double stack freight trains, multi level auto carriers) because you can do more with the same number of cars.

Yeah, there was a rumor that amtrak was going to phase out the signle level cars on long distance trains. So hypothetically the silver service trains would end at washington and passengers would transfer to a corridor train.

Fortunately that rumor never occured, and can't at this point occur. I don't think cutting back Silver Service would be wise, as its operated to New York from the beginning, and a connection would mean either no checked baggage, or having to put baggage cars on regionals. In fact maybe as more Single level equipment becomes available, the reverse could happen and have one train extended to Boston.

 

[battalion51]

Fortunately that rumor never occured, and can't at this point occur.

Never say never. There was talk in the mid 90's about cutting Silver Service to Washington and giving them Superliner sets. It didn't happened, but that doesn't mean that it can't happen in the future. I personally would like to see all Reserved Regionals get baggage cars if and when the equipment becomes available.

 

[Amfleet]

Fortunately that rumor never occured, and can't at this point occur.

Never say never. There was talk in the mid 90's about cutting Silver Service to Washington and giving them Superliner sets. It didn't happened, but that doesn't mean that it can't happen in the future. I personally would like to see all Reserved Regionals get baggage cars if and when the equipment becomes available.

I doubt Regionals will ever see a baggage car unless whole new trains are ordered. Also, I would rather see Silver Service extended to Boston than cut back to Washington.

 

[battalion51]

Well I'm saying it'd be a nice thing anyway. It would create at least some baggage service on NEC trains that aren't the overnight Federal or long distance trains that can't be used locally by NEC passengers.

 

[Amfleet]

Well I'm saying it'd be a nice thing anyway. It would create at least some baggage service on NEC trains that aren't the overnight Federal or long distance trains that can't be used locally by NEC passengers.

Baggage service would never take on the NEC as it would lengthen station stops and I doubt any passengers would use the service. Most people find checking baggage a hassle, more so than bringing it on the train themselves. That's one of Amtrak's selling points over the airlines. Also, the Amfleet I's are designed with space for large pieces of luggage at the end of each car.

 

[engine999]

Well I'm saying it'd be a nice thing anyway. It would create at least some baggage service on NEC trains that aren't the overnight Federal or long distance trains that can't be used locally by NEC passengers.

Don't the baggage cars have a max speed of 110? Time is money so the drop of a trains max speed by 15 mph can greatly effect it's desirability.

 

[battalion51]

Good point. I've always thought that baggage coaches wouldn't be a bad idea, one half baggage, one half coach. This would also be helpful for the Palmetto bug so it can run at 125 on the corridor since it's pure Amfleet (except for the baggage car right now). It's just an idea, whether it happens or not no one knows.

 

[engine999]

Good point. I've always thought that baggage coaches wouldn't be a bad idea, one half baggage, one half coach. This would also be helpful for the Palmetto bug so it can run at 125 on the corridor since it's pure Amfleet (except for the baggage car right now). It's just an idea, whether it happens or not no one knows.

It actually dose not sound to far fetched an amfleet baggage car. If they had some extra of the old metroliner cars those would do well considering they are designed to go 125. To bad amtrak is short of all equipment. Will baggage cars be removed from more superliner trains with the new amtrak no smoking policy on superliner trains taking place in April. This is supposed to add more coach baggage's back to the roster so it could eb away to clear up some equipment.

 

[battalion51]

No, Coach Baggage's aren't coming back. It's been speculated that they might convert the cars, back but there is no confirmation on that. Could they use the smoking rooms as baggage areas, yes, but there's no guarantee it will happen.

 

[jccollins]

A fourth frequency has been under discussion since November.  The most likely scenario doesn't seem to be a full-route fourth Sunset, but afourth Los Angeles-San Antonio frequency, partly utilizing equipment

that now lays over in San Antonio for an excessive length of time.

This is similar to what I mentioned in an earlier post in a different thread. From what I have heard of this scenario, no new or extra equipment would be needed. Equipment parked in San Antonio would be run in revenue service more often instead. It would definitely be a nice complement for the heavily patronized western portion of the Sunset Limited route from San Antonio to Los Angeles and give passengers more travel options and seating availability.

The few staffed stations between Los Angeles and San Antonio (Maricopa, Tucson, and El Paso) could probably have their hours adjusted a little bit to accommodate the fourth frequency without requiring massive increases in station staffing hours.

 

[battalion51]

It would definitely be a nice complement for the heavily patronized western portion of the Sunset Limited route from San Antonio to Los Angeles and give passengers more travel options and seating availability.

Heavily patronized is not the set of words I would use. Every time I see a Sunset manifest the numbers drop off after NOL. Granted they pick up a little bit with the combination of 421, but not significantly enough to justify a fourth round trip out there. The numbers and demand are there for a daily Sunset east of NOL, but not to the west even for a fourth train.