Diesel Exhaust Fumes in EB front sleeper car

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DaddyJim

Train Attendant
Joined
May 25, 2013
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22
Location
NC
We were on the EB out of CHI 09/22/13 to SEA and the 1st day into the 2 nd day the Diesel exhaust fumes were coming into the 1st sleeper car so bad that the crew had to used a couple of rolls of duck tape to try and seal the door at the front of the car . There were 3 engines and a baggage car then our sleeper. Our car attendant offered coach seats to all in the car but all roomettes and bedrooms on the train were sold out.

Has anyone had this problem with the exhaut coming into the cars this bad?
 
This situation was a result of the dorm car being added to the rear of the train so that the five occupied private cars on the rear could have access to the consist. This is not normal not even for private cars. The dorm car is always located in front of the two sleepers and this keeps the majority of the diesel exhaust from reaching the revenue sleeper cars.
 
EB_OBS said:
This situation was a result of the dorm car being added to the rear of the train so that the five occupied private cars on the rear could have access to the consist. This is not normal not even for private cars. The dorm car is always located in front of the two sleepers and this keeps the majority of the diesel exhaust from reaching the revenue sleeper cars.
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Does the exhaust enter the dorm car then? Revenue space is sold in there (not to mention all the employees)
 
No, because the opening to go into the next car is lower down and connected to the baggage car.

Without the dorm, the opening to the next car is up high and hanging out in the air, which allows the exhaust in.

It also allows for pictures like this:



DSC_7429 by Ryan Stavely, on Flickr

Taken out the leading door of the SSL on the Portland section of the EB over the top of the locomotive. You could smell exhaust in the car, but it wasn't too awful for the hour or so we spent in there. I can imagine it would be much worse in a sleeping car over a longer period of time.
 
What's in front of the SSL on the Portland section of the EB? I know the baggage is on the lower level of one of the coach cars, so is the SSL just right behind the engines?

I took the EB from PDX to CHI last December, but it was dark shortly after I got on, and I had a river-side roomette, so I did not even go up to the SSL till the next day (after it had been attached to the back of the Seattle section).
 
I did CHI-Spokane on EB in the transdorm that's right behind the locomotives and baggage car, did not notice any diesel fumes or smell during 40-odd hours of the journey.

Then from Spokane-PDX, I was sitting in the SSL right behind the locomotive, and spent some tie taking pictures similar to what Ryan shared, and again did not notice any fumes, though the heat from the locomotives is very much felt if you stand by the front door for a long time.
 
Sounds like one of the locomotives may have had a problem with an "assist blower" ejecting the diesel exhaust high enough into the air to get out of the near slipstream, so that it was being carried back along the top of that locomotive and then spilling down into the space between the baggage car and the high-level door of the sleeper.
 
Maybe the Superliner had a faulty door, they're pretty old cars and may be suffering for poor maintaince or just regular wear and tear. The locomotives could also have suffered the same problem.
 
Go back and read my first post in the thread, which explains why it is actually a good solution.

Edit:

Here, I drew you a pretty picture:

Exhaust_Flow.png
 
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Considering that the TransDorms are all a product of the 1990's, having the doors flush with the exhaust of the locomotive is not a new phenomenon. In fact, just look at any fully Superliner train from the late 1970's through to the arrival of the Superliner II's and you'll see F40's right up against the passenger cars; door looking right over the top of the locomotive.

Still happens on a regular basis today, actually. Many California runs are pushed/pulled by P42's with an end door right against the locomotive. You can occasionally smell exhaust, but it's never an issue to the point of needing to relocate people.

Sounds like the end door on this effected car was faulty. Are they supposed to be air-tight? I imagine they were, but to to the same degree as a car door is. Unfortunately, Amtrak is negligently underfunded and things like door seals are probably absolutely last on the maintenance priority list.
 
There are guards used on Surfliners that cover the end diaphragm to prevent exhaust from entering the first car. These are only needed when a P 42 is up against a high level diaphragm, yet LAX often forgets to put them on. Looks like 16th St either forgot or had none available. Make sure you mention in your letter that the private cars having train access was obviously more important than the health and comfort of Amtrak's first class passengers.
 
Nice picture Ryan, but that car you added between the locomotive and the passenger car looks like a baggage car, not a Transdorm. So I still don't see how a Transdorm stops the exhaust.

If the doors actually are faulty sometimes, like Blackwolf said, then the only real way to stop the exhaust would be to fix the door.

Am I missing something here? I'm not trying to cause trouble, I'm just confused.
 
Swadian Hardcore said:
Nice picture Ryan, but that car you added between the locomotive and the passenger car looks like a baggage car, not a Transdorm. So I still don't see how a Transdorm stops the exhaust.

If the doors actually are faulty sometimes, like Blackwolf said, then the only real way to stop the exhaust would be to fix the door.

Am I missing something here? I'm not trying to cause trouble, I'm just confused.
Click to expand...
It is a baggage car. The transdorm doors are meant to seal against the baggage car doors, which provides a seal against the exhaust in the car connection (along with the doors themselves.) This is different from the all-Superliner because the passageway is not sealed, and so only the door is preventing the exhaust from coming in.
 
Swadian Hardcore said:
Nice picture Ryan, but that car you added between the locomotive and the passenger car looks like a baggage car, not a Transdorm. So I still don't see how a Transdorm stops the exhaust.

If the doors actually are faulty sometimes, like Blackwolf said, then the only real way to stop the exhaust would be to fix the door.

Am I missing something here? I'm not trying to cause trouble, I'm just confused.
Click to expand...
Confused? Consider -- the Transdorm has no upper-level door on the front end - only the lower-level door that connects to the single-level baggage car (or sometimes to other single-level cars). And that connection is protected by the bendy-bus pleated weather-resistant thingy -- diaphragm it's called. So unlike most Superliner equipment there's no front-end door up in the smokestream to leak.
 
Swadian Hardcore said:
Nice picture Ryan, but that car you added between the locomotive and the passenger car looks like a baggage car, not a Transdorm. So I still don't see how a Transdorm stops the exhaust.
Click to expand...
It is a baggage car, as clearly indicated by the caption that says "lower level door hooked to baggage car". The fact that it's a lower level door and hooked to the baggage car is what stops the exhaust. Contrast that with an upper level door, not hooked to anything and exhaust getting pushed right up against it.
Come on dude, this isn't rocket surgery here.
 
This is a "problem" we have to endure all the time on the Heartland Flyer as it has an engine at both ends attached directly to the Superliner Coach set. As often as I have been assigned into Car 1 (the one right behind the lead engine) noticeable fumes are few and far between, depending on how smoky the engine is.
 
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