Diner Lite Experience

[RailFanNebraska]

On my way trip to chicago i had the change to sample both dinner and lunch in the dining car.

Lunch = Burger that definately felt and tasted zaped in a microwave. No fries, not even an option as a side order, which i really think amtrak needs to add. Overall a 40 dollar meal that tasted like it should have cost half that.

Dinner = Beef stew, which i really liked, it tasted good and felt very tender. The potatoes were fluffy and butter and had a nice texture; the rice however felt undercooked and had hard spots. Overall a 70 dollar meal (mom had a bottle of wine) that was good, but maybe not worth 70 dollars. We also payed for a traveling student we met so it was about 15 dollars a person.

OVERALL diner lite ... One, we payed over 100 dollars for food on the train, HOW in the hell can amtrak be losing money on this. The only way i could see it if is the vendors were really giving them a bad deal on food. Nevermind our food was served on PLASTIC plates, we still had the nice looking amtrak silverware; which was good. However, just a general rule, you don't serve a 70 dollar dinner on plastic plates, come on amtrak.

My dad and I are just completely baffled on how amtrak could be losing money on this ...

 

[AlanB]

First, no one has confirmed or denied that Amtrak is loosing money under the SDS program, although if you read my analysis of SDS, you'll see that I for one believe that they are still loosing money overall.

However the big picture isn't just that Amtrak is loosing money on the dining car only, they are loosing money on food service in general. That includes dining cars, cafe cars on shorter haul trains, and on the lounge cars for long distance trains. Additionally what prompted SDS is the loss in food service that was based upon the old way of running the dining car, not the new SDS way, coupled with the losses from the cafe cars and lounge cars.

 

[1702]

On my way trip to chicago i had the change to sample both dinner and lunch in the dining car.
Lunch = Burger that definately felt and tasted zaped in a microwave. No fries, not even an option as a side order, which i really think amtrak needs to add.

Just a quick note that if french fries were offered, they'd have to be of the microwaveable variety. There are no deep fryers in the kitchens.

 

[AlanB]

On my way trip to chicago i had the change to sample both dinner and lunch in the dining car.

Lunch = Burger that definately felt and tasted zaped in a microwave. No fries, not even an option as a side order, which i really think amtrak needs to add.

Just a quick note that if french fries were offered, they'd have to be of the microwaveable variety. There are no deep fryers in the kitchens.

And if I were working in the dining car's kitchen, I'm not sure that I'd want a huge vat of boiling hot oil sloshing around. :blink:

 

[DaveKCMO]

restaurants aren't hauled across the country using diesel fuel. that's obviously what makes on-board dining such an expensive operation. also, once the server is done serving dinner, he/she doesn't punch a clock and go home. when people aren't dining and paying good money for it, that car is just a drag on the whole train.

there are lots of captive audience dining experiences that don't seem to be "worth it". anything you buy on a plane, cruise, or in a theme park is going to have a premium tacked on. otherwise, pack your own damn meal and bottle o' wine. at least it's not like greyhound where you have to stop and everyone gets off to eat at a truck stop.

that being said, the food i've had on amtrak is 1,000 times better than the first class international food i've been served recently on delta.

 

[Bigval109]

restaurants aren't hauled across the country using diesel fuel. that's obviously what makes on-board dining such an expensive operation. also, once the server is done serving dinner, he/she doesn't punch a clock and go home. when people aren't dining and paying good money for it, that car is just a drag on the whole train.
there are lots of captive audience dining experiences that don't seem to be "worth it". anything you buy on a plane, cruise, or in a theme park is going to have a premium tacked on. otherwise, pack your own damn meal and bottle o' wine. at least it's not like greyhound where you have to stop and everyone gets off to eat at a truck stop.

that being said, the food i've had on amtrak is 1,000 times better than the first class international food i've been served recently on delta.

I've had some wonderful meal on the trains. They cost a little more but it is not something I do everyday. Plus with the beautiful countryside passing by it is well worth it. What resturant can top dinner on the train with all the beauty of America passing bye.

 

[PennCentralFan]

My concern is not with the dining car. I thought it was good and priced appropriately. A heck of lot better than airline food or fast food.

I am disappointed with the cafe car and lounge car sandwhiches and food. It's about the same as conveinence store food. You know the stuff you pull out of giant refrigerators and pop in a microwave. Well that's what the burgers, hot dogs and sandwhiches are like.

I think sandwhichs like ham, roast beef etc that are made before hand and stored cold would be better than a micro-waved chicked sandwhich or hot dog. Then how about cole slaw or potato salad stored cold.

Has anyone tried the cold fried chicken? That seems like it would be half-way decent.

 

[Everydaymatters]

That food sounds terrible. I guess I'll be avoiding the dining car for lunch. The stew sounded like it was ok.

As I said before, bad management is usually the reason a company loses money. With the prices Amtrak charged prior to their new meal arrangement, they should have at least broken even, if not made a little profit. I haven't yet experienced the new diner lite.

On the EB last year, they announced chicken dinners could be ordered in advance and picked up at one of the stops. Apparently they weren't much good from what I heard.

Amtrak has a captive audience. There's nowhere else the passengers can go for meals. They should make it edible.

 

[PRR 60]

For the record, Amtrak does not microwave dining car food. Dining car food is warmed in convection ovens. Anyone with knowledge of commercial food preparation will tell you there is a huge difference between microwave warming and convection warming. Most major casual dining restaurant chains prepare at least some of their offerings the same way. So does Acela in First Class. And First Class airline meals, which are pretty good meals by any measure, are also warmed in convection ovens.

Now, the lounge and cafe are a different story. Food there is warmed in a microwave, and I agree totally that the result is often second (or third) rate. But that is not the case in the dining car.

By the way, many posted reviews of the Simplified Dining Service (not "Diner Lite") suggest that the food is pretty good. That includes some posted on this site. That is not to say that any one individual might find the food otherwise, but that it is a matter of personal taste, not a general indictment of all the SDS-prepared food.

 

[Steve4031]

I had two meals in the dining car on the Lake Shore Limited in July. A chicken friend steak for dinner, and french toast for Breakfast. Both meals were Good. The service itself in the diner was the best I had expereinced on the Lake Shore Limited in years.

 

[1702]

That food sounds terrible. I guess I'll be avoiding the dining car for lunch. The stew sounded like it was ok.
As I said before, bad management is usually the reason a company loses money. With the prices Amtrak charged prior to their new meal arrangement, they should have at least broken even, if not made a little profit. I haven't yet experienced the new diner lite.

On the EB last year, they announced chicken dinners could be ordered in advance and picked up at one of the stops. Apparently they weren't much good from what I heard.

Amtrak has a captive audience. There's nowhere else the passengers can go for meals. They should make it edible.

I wouldn't base a decision to at least try the dining car on what you read on any of these forums. Some people say the food is fine, other say it's the worst they've ever eaten, & everything in between. The same was true before SDS came along.

What puzzles me is people having, according to what they post here, a bad, "overpriced" meal but seemingly not requesting the service attendant to correct the situation with a different entree or side item.

Railroad dining cars have seldom been anything but a losing proposition. Amtrak may have started shooting itself in the foot (again) when the sleeper passengers began receiving complimentary meals. Those sleeping car meal checks are tallied up & it looks like the dining car has taken in revenue when no money has changed hands. No matter which pocket the sleeper meal "revenue" comes out of, it's still the same pair of pants.

 

[1702]

For the record, Amtrak does not microwave dining car food. Dining car food is warmed in convection ovens.

Unless they've been removed since Jan 2005, Superliner diners have both convection & microwave ovens. Pre-SDS, food prep was done in both.

 

[AlanB]

As I said before, bad management is usually the reason a company loses money. With the prices Amtrak charged prior to their new meal arrangement, they should have at least broken even, if not made a little profit. I haven't yet experienced the new diner lite.

Once again, just to be clear, I have never seen evidence from Amtrak that specifically states that the over $150 Million lost in the food service area is the direct result of the old way of running the dining cars.

Yes the odds are that the pre-SDS dining cars did contribute to that overall food service loss, but they are not the sole reason that Amtrak lost money on food service. Amtrak closed the comissary in Albany and eliminated all cafe service on the Empire Corridor trains that run solely between Albany and New York City, simply because those cars were loosing big bucks!

I would also suspect that if the dining cars were loosing money pre-SDS, that at least part of the problem is exactly what Windy City touched upon, Amtrak wasn't allocating enough revenue from the sleeping cars to cover the meals eaten by sleeping car pax. Of course reallocating that extra money might well then cause a loss to occur in the sleeping cars.

This is one area where Congress needs to stop micromanaging Amtrak. Food service has always been a money loosing operation, even when the freight RR's ran the passenger trains in this country. Besides, when you are considering handing over at least $1.4 Billion dollars, it seems kind of silly to be worrying about one area that's only loosing 10% of that total number. I'm reminded of the little Dutch kid sticking his finger in the hole in the dike trying to hold back the inevitable. :blink:

 

[PRR 60]

For the record, Amtrak does not microwave dining car food. Dining car food is warmed in convection ovens.

Unless they've been removed since Jan 2005, Superliner diners have both convection & microwave ovens. Pre-SDS, food prep was done in both.

Note that I have never been in a Superliner kitchen, but my understanding is that the primary food preparation is in the convection ovens. The microwave, if used, would be used for secondary warming like heating rolls.

The microwave brings up an interesting story that may or may not be true. Early on there were horror stories about some SDS offerings being really, really bad while the same food on other trains was pretty good. As the story goes, some crews were following the heating instructions with one little error. They were using the microwave, not the oven. Yikes! That would explain some of the lousy looking and tasting food. That may be just another Amtrak legend, but it has enough plausibility that it may actually have happened.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

I have to laugh from all this posting about food. If you have seen a picture of me you know I like to eat good food and have always had good or better meals on a train. But what tickles my funny bone is rail fans are like musicians, actors, and stagehands. the first question "when do we get paid", second, "When do we eat"

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

Note that I have never been in a Superliner kitchen, but my understanding is that the primary food preparation is in the convection ovens. The microwave, if used, would be used for secondary warming like heating rolls.
The microwave brings up an interesting story that may or may not be true. Early on there were horror stories about some SDS offerings being really, really bad while the same food on other trains was pretty good. As the story goes, some crews were following the heating instructions with one little error. They were using the microwave, not the oven. Yikes! That would explain some of the lousy looking and tasting food. That may be just another Amtrak legend, but it has enough plausibility that it may actually have happened.

First off, let's get a couple of points straight regarding SDS. It was created simply as a means of operating the dining car with less crew members! That is actually the biggest reason right there in why it exists as well as to conform with the Congressional mandate! There were slight changes made with the menu cycles. Items such as steaks were removed. The rest of the food items are the very same "boil in bag, convection oven, brown and serve, or microwave items! The plastic plates and glasses were a product of the removal of the second cook position (also known as the food specialist) who washed the dishes as needed. Most of the trains operating with SDS are now short a waiter as well as the second cook. Over here on "Silver Service" we are still using that second waiter as needed. The Superliner diners as well as most of the single level diners are equipped with both convection ovens as well as microwaves. Some of the forty seat refurbished single level diners we use have a combination convection/microwave allowing us to use either mode or a combination of both at the same time. Another flaw (if it is viewed as a flaw) is with SDS's reservation system being set up to serve less people over the hours of its operation. It helps a little with keeping the crowds a little smaller at shorter intervals throughout the day, but with overall capacity it is reduced (that is unless crews are seating more folks than reservations are made).

I have seen the good and the bad with SDS. The average passenger should notice very little in changes when comparing the old way with SDS. The only thing they will necessarily see is the change to plastic plates and glasses, the newer reservations system (lunch and dinner only), and the few menu changes made to the actual menu cycles. The railfan or regular rider will notice other things such as less people running the diner, possible quality issues compared with what they are used to, etc.

And sadly I must concur with PRR60's previous comment. And be mindful it is not an Amtrak legend! We have crews who sometimes just don't follow instructions or make mistakes for a while before being corrected (stuff such as microwaving convection oven food items). It should also be noted that "Auto Train" and the "Empire Builder" are not part of the SDS program. They are still on the conventional system with pretty much the same items on the menu with the addition of steaks, and other cooked to order items.

As far as to Amtrak's savings with SDS.......... well SDS is simply a prelude to the supposedly coming "Diner Lite" program. If and when this equipment becomes available we'll start to see it rolled out on certain routes. Now how much is Amtrak saving? I don't really know the actual figures. I am sure they are saving payroll costs involved with the loss of the two positions in the OBS department. However, that fact aside, those who have read my postings over the last couple years should know where I stand in the "payroll savings" department! So personally, I don't quite see any savings with SDS yet, but if it keeps the trains running, and hardworking folks with jobs, then so be it! OBS...

 

[RailFanNebraska]

Well as for my fry's idea, they can be cooked in a oven lol.

Overall the food is fairly good, but it could be better, esp. when you are on a train for over 20 hours. I just dont understand how food service can be unprofitable. Esp when the dinner car is packed full pretty much 11 hours of the day. The plastic plates still bug me.

 

[AmtrakFan]

I have actually heard that the SDS in some cases IS BETTER then the old Dining Car Food. I have heard that the Superliner Diner-Lite's will be coming in 18 Months.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

Well as for my fry's idea, they can be cooked in a oven lol.
Overall the food is fairly good, but it could be better, esp. when you are on a train for over 20 hours. I just dont understand how food service can be unprofitable. Esp when the dinner car is packed full pretty much 11 hours of the day. The plastic plates still bug me.

As far as your "frys with the entre" idea, it would work. We used to have to kind you bake in the actual oven itself, and they probably would work well in the convection oven, too. I no longer work the dining car. I went to the train attendant side of the job to avoid the diner. But while I was in the diner, I always used the convection oven to heat the dinner rolls up! They were just as good as using the warmer drawer in the older diners! We kept the frys in those warming drawers, too after they were baked. They were sooo good, too! OBS...

 

[mrdisnie]

OBS,

I have a question, which is really not part of this topic, for which i apologize!!!! My family and I will be traveling on the 91 and 98 at the end of October and returning the second week of November. My question is do you know your schedule yet? It would be great to meet up with you on one the trips, we are staying in a sleeper, as we normally do and would love to catch up and chat!!!

 

[daveyb99]

[QUOTE='RailFanNebraska]OVERALL diner lite ... One, we payed over 100 dollars for food on the train, HOW in the hell can amtrak be losing money on this.
[/QUOTE]

That just might be the reason. Someone who paid $62.00 for a CHI-FTW ticket IS NOT going to pay $100 for meals --- even though they might spend $30 at the cafe.

Somehow Amtrak has to make these two services complimentary to each other. Maybe close the cafe during diner hours and offer a larger "cafe menu". Maybe adjust ticket prices up by a few $$$ an offer a "discount coupon".

Options could be endless, but I would agree: I would NOT pay $45.00 for the Beef for two, then another $20 for breakfast and yet another $25 for lunch. (But I wil pay for a sleeper.)

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

Somehow Amtrak has to make these two services complimentary to each other. Maybe close the cafe during diner hours and offer a larger "cafe menu".

You make a good point with your overall post, however, I can just see Amtrak closing the Cafe Car during the dining car hours while knowing the fact it (the diner) uses SDS!!!

Oh hell yeah......... do that over here on "Silver Service" and we might have a war break out! It is bad enough when the lounge LSA takes their break too close to the meal times! OBS....

 

[AlanB]

[QUOTE='RailFanNebraska]
 

OVERALL diner lite ... One, we payed over 100 dollars for food on the train, HOW in the hell can amtrak be losing money on this.

Options could be endless, but I would agree: I would NOT pay $45.00 for the Beef for two, then another $20 for breakfast and yet another $25 for lunch. (But I wil pay for a sleeper.)

[/QUOTE]
Please take note Davey, there were 3 people at each meal (Mom, dad, and RailfanNebraska) and for dinner they also paid for a guest student who joined them.

Overall a 70 dollar meal (mom had a bottle of wine) that was good, but maybe not worth 70 dollars. We also payed for a traveling student we met so it was about 15 dollars a person.