Do we need increased security on Amtrak?

[NW cannonball]

Uuh - let's just be calm and figure the odds. Falls in the home - maybe 100 times or more more likely than ever meeting a "terrorist" on any public transport - rail, air, sidewalk.

What does the TSA thing cost us right now - a few billion -- not much per capita -- what do we get for that -- not much.

No way to figure risk of "terrorists" vs icy sidwalks. So small risk.

Yeah, we all know that us humans super-over-estimate ""scary!"" risks

Transport security as a jobs program, that I can understand.

But really -- a broken kerb or an icy sidewalk, is a lot more likely to kill you than all the terrorists in the world.

 

[46Dover]

To quote Don Phillips: Perfect Security? In about two hours, Penn Station (NY) sees more people than O'Hare sees all day

 

[VentureForth]

All we need are brave men and women who think like these Americans in France. We need more service people, police, first responders, etc - active and retired. And we need people who are willing ready and able to put their lives on the line for the sake of others.

What gets me about this incident in France is not ONE local has been reported to have helped subdue this terrorist. In fact, the onboard crew locked themselves up in their office.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

All we need are brave men and women who think like these Americans in France. We need more service people, police, first responders, etc - active and retired. And we need people who are willing ready and able to put their lives on the line for the sake of others. What gets me about this incident in France is not ONE local has been reported to have helped subdue this terrorist. In fact, the onboard crew locked themselves up in their office.

In the vast majority of cases I've read about there was simply no time to accurately witness, judge, and react before someone innocent was already dead or mortally wounded. Even in cases where Team America armed police, service people, and other "brave men" were on the scene it rarely helped to save lives in any immediate sense. I used to think the same way you apparently do, but a sudden and deadly attack on a local restaurant chain with armed policemen already onsite opened my eyes to the actual nature of violent attacks and the absurdity of hero worship.

In other words the statistical reality of the situation doesn't support America's view of the world around us. It's standard operating procedure for staff to lock themselves away here in the US as well so I'm not sure what you're getting at other than alerting us to your lack of knowledge on the matter. Some of the bravest things I ever did were also amazingly foolish in hindsight. It's a double-edged sword that occasionally works wonders but can also escalate and exacerbate a relatively minor issue into a major problem just as often if not moreso.

 

[dlagrua]

It is up to the railroad passengers themselves to be observers and provide security. Amtrak trains typically make dozens of stops, many of these in remote rural areas. It would be physically impossible to install security at all stations and secure thousands of miles of tracks and hundreds of bridges. If the TSA got involved, all we would end up with is a loss of constitutional rights, nothing more.

At the airport billions of our taxpayer money has been spent and the result is that old ladies in wheelchairs are being frisked while not a single terrorist has been caught. This is all about "feel good security" that has the American people brainwashed into accepting more government control over their liberty and freedom.

 

[KmH]

We should all be reduced to tears from laughing hard whenever TSA is mentioned in any context referencing 'security'.

 

[jis]

All we need are brave men and women who think like these Americans in France. We need more service people, police, first responders, etc - active and retired. And we need people who are willing ready and able to put their lives on the line for the sake of others. What gets me about this incident in France is not ONE local has been reported to have helped subdue this terrorist. In fact, the onboard crew locked themselves up in their office.

In the vast majority of cases I've read about there was simply no time to accurately witness, judge, and react before someone innocent was already dead or mortally wounded. Even in cases where Team America armed police, service people, and other "brave men" were on the scene it rarely helped to save lives in any immediate sense. Back when I used to think the same way you apparently do, but a sudden and deadly attack on a local restaurant chain with armed policemen already onsite opened my eyes to the actual nature of violent attacks and the absurdity of hero worship.

In other words the statistical reality of the situation doesn't support America's view of the world around us. It's standard operating procedure for staff to lock themselves away here in the US as well so I'm not sure what you're getting at other than alerting us to your lack of knowledge on the matter. Some of the bravest things I ever did were also amazingly foolish in hindsight. It's a double-edged sword that occasionally works wonders but can also escalate and exacerbate a relatively minor issue into a major problem just as often if not moreso.

Very well put.... Incidentally, the first person who challenged the attacker was a young French businessman, who for whatever reason prefers to remain anonymous, as per reports in Europe. The brave Americans followed, This does not take anything away from their bravery, but gives a broader perspective of the whole picture. So there is a bit of GIGO analysis going on here and there too.

 

[tommylicious]

yes we do

 

[Ryan]

It would be really awesome if you could actually stake out a coherent viewpoint rather than just troll the thread with your contrary opinion.

 

[fillyjonk]

If airport style security does get mandated for Amtrak, the only practical way I can see it could be carried out would be to have a checkpoint or two on and part of every train, staffed by trained personnel who go along on the train all along its route. How else could it be accomplished for boardings at an unstaffed station in a remote area? Does the phrase "can of worms" come to mind?

They close the unstaffed stations. And then, it's like flying all over again for people like me: have to drive to a major city, fight bad parking, maybe parking fees, get my bags x-rayed, get felt up, have my bags searched, be told the tiny bamboo knitting needles I am carrying could be a weapon and I need to throw them away.....but still "bad guys" keep doing bad while an overweight, pacifist, 46-year-old college prof gets harassed.

Actually, if "they" wanted to kill some of the LD routes, the whole idea of "we need more security" might be a good stalking horse for it.

 

[Lonestar648]

Using Congressional logic (make the public suffer so they feel their government is working hard to keep them safe) rail travel is unsecure, therefore it must be made to look secure or eliminate it. The goal is not better security, but rather make John and Jane Doe public think there is. Amtrak could easily become the victim if reasonable people do not prevail.

 

[jis]

Part of the problem is there are way too many idiots who vote who actually believe the nonsense doled out to them, and even get upset that they are not getting their requisite free massages before getting onto Amtrak trains. Interestingly those who use trains most regularly, like ones using Commuter railroads don't particularly worry about such things too much. It is the clueless occasional riders who are the biggest culprits.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Increased security on Amtrak, no we don't need it. Amtrak is already having money issues as it is, why put them in a position to throw more money away at something that won't even make a difference?

There are thousands of miles of tracks in the country that are unprotected. There aren't enough police in the country that could patrol all of those tracks even if they wanted too, plus it would cost us, the taxpayers a fortune too.

If they really want to do something about crazies these days, how about America starts taking mental health seriously? Stop ignoring the signs before it happens and start treating it. That's just my two cents on the matter, too bad most voters aren't that smart and they will suffer, along with all of us.