Does Amtrak actually "own" stations?

[PRR 60]

IIRC The ALC platform is owned by Amtrak, but the parking lot and little park adjacent to the platform are owned by NS. NS has a MOW facility at ALC, and I think Amtrak only owns the concrete platform.

Norfolk Southern owns everything at Alliance, including the platform.

Great American Stations

 

[bjk]

Dave-

I am researching what Amtrak pays to lease stations. Speciffically where ridership (on-off) is around 30,000 per year.

I have been google and bining for 2 days with little success. You seem knowledgeable can you help me?

Thank you,

bjk

 

[Pastor Dave]

Dave-

I am researching what Amtrak pays to lease stations. Speciffically where ridership (on-off) is around 30,000 per year.

I have been google and bining for 2 days with little success. You seem knowledgeable can you help me?

Thank you,

bjk

Unfortunately, I usually come to the table with more questions than answers. This is one of those times.

My OP about the Orlando station came about because I falsely assumed that everything related to Amtrak belongs to Amtrak (all though I did know about other railroads actually owning most of the rails that they travel on). With my false assumptions, I would be quick to blame Amtrak for shoddy station conditions when, actually, Amtrak has little control.

Pennyk shared that Amtrak leases the Orlando station for $1 per year from CSX. Without anymore information at my disposal, I assume they have the same relationship with other stations (there I go "assuming" again :unsure: )

Dave

 

[MJL]

The Norman OK station is privately owned and was closed briefly recently in a legal kerfluffle:

http://www.koco.com/r/25232345/detail.html

OKLAHOMA CITY -- Travel troubles at Oklahoma City's train station could cause big problems for Oklahoma Sooners fans. The Heartland Flyer is set to take people to Dallas for the Red River Rivalry game at the Cotton Bowl.
"This is a really big weekend," said Brenda Perry of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation. "We have sold out trains heading out tomorrow morning."

But a sign at the depot tells visitors that the facility is closed and it has been closed since Monday.

The facility is owned and operated by the Brewer family, which is locked in a dispute with ODOT and Amtrak.

 

[AlanB]

Pennyk shared that Amtrak leases the Orlando station for $1 per year from CSX. Without anymore information at my disposal, I assume they have the same relationship with other stations (there I go "assuming" again :unsure: )

Dave,

It varries all over the map. Some stations Amtrak owns. Some stations are owned by the freight RR's. And still others are owned by the local city/town or even in a few cases private citizens/companies.

And the rents of course can vary depending on the size of the station and who owns it.

 

[Eric S]

The Norman OK station is privately owned and was closed briefly recently in a legal kerfluffle:

http://www.koco.com/...345/detail.html

OKLAHOMA CITY -- Travel troubles at Oklahoma City's train station could cause big problems for Oklahoma Sooners fans. The Heartland Flyer is set to take people to Dallas for the Red River Rivalry game at the Cotton Bowl.
"This is a really big weekend," said Brenda Perry of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation. "We have sold out trains heading out tomorrow morning."

But a sign at the depot tells visitors that the facility is closed and it has been closed since Monday.

The facility is owned and operated by the Brewer family, which is locked in a dispute with ODOT and Amtrak.

I believe that dispute involved the Oklahoma City station, not the Norman station.

 

[Pastor Dave]

The Norman OK station is privately owned and was closed briefly recently in a legal kerfluffle:

http://www.koco.com/r/25232345/detail.html

OKLAHOMA CITY -- Travel troubles at Oklahoma City's train station could cause big problems for Oklahoma Sooners fans. The Heartland Flyer is set to take people to Dallas for the Red River Rivalry game at the Cotton Bowl.
"This is a really big weekend," said Brenda Perry of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation. "We have sold out trains heading out tomorrow morning."

But a sign at the depot tells visitors that the facility is closed and it has been closed since Monday.

The facility is owned and operated by the Brewer family, which is locked in a dispute with ODOT and Amtrak.

I've never heard the term "legal kerfluffle" before. However, I will try to use it in this Sunday's sermon just for the heck of it.

 

[jis]

Amtrak does own some stations, generally the bigger ones like NYP & DC for example.

Many more stations are either owned by the original freight RR or its successor; or by the local city/town that the station is in.

And in some cases they are owned by the local transit system. E.g. all of the Amtrak stations in NJ except for EWR are owned and operated by NJTransit. EWR is owned and operated by the Port Authority of NY&NJ, the same guys that own (well sort of, actually have a very long term lease on I believe) and operate the adjacent airport and the monorail connecting the station to the airport.

 

[zephyr17]

In many cases, Amtrak got use of railroad facilities for free as a condition of joining Amtrak. So on the original routes, they still have use of the some of the old RR stations virtually for free. If a community wants the facilities improved, generally the city or something other entity buy the station (often for a symbolic $1, like King Street Station in Seattle) and improves it. Then Amtrak uses it, usually for a very low price. That sometimes causes problems. For example, there was a big issue at San Bernardino when they wanted to charge Amtrak more than Amtrak was willing to pay for use of the renovated station, so Amtrak didn't use the station building and turned it into an unmanned stop. I heard there was a similar situation in Albany when the new station there was finished and it ultimately got resolved, but don't know much about that.

At Los Angeles Union Station, the owner is Catellus which is a corporate descendent of the Santa Fe Land company. They got Santa Fe's share and they got got SP's share in the abortive SPSF merger when non-RR assets were merged before the RR merger, which was disapproved. They later picked up UP's share. At some point they sold the actual RR operating facilities (tracks, etc) to SCRRA (Metrolink).

In any case, one of the reasons that Amtrak doesn't have a Metropolitan Lounge at LA is because Catellus doesn't want to give them access to any more space. Amtrak pays very little for use of LAUPT because of the original conditions of use. There has been talk about using the old ticketing wing for something, perhaps a Metropolitan Lounge, but Catellus finds it much more lucrative to rent it out for special events and film shoots than let Amtrak use if for almost nothing.

 

[Anise]

Hi all,

I know that this an old discussion, but I found it through Google and it's exactly what I'm looking for. I'm writing a mystery novel in which the planned destruction of a historic train station is a major plot point. HOWEVER, in order for this to work, the station has to be owned 100% by a private family. This doesn't even have to be something that's ever actually happened, but is it possible/plausible? All info appreciated!

 

[AlanB]

Anise,

That's perfectly reasonable. Amtrak doesn't own many of the stations, most are owned by freight RR's or the local city where the station resides. But there are at least a few that are owned by someone. The station in Oklahoma City comes to mind, where the owner of the station has actually locked the station up once or twice over disputes with the agreement to use his station.

 

[tomfuller]

The Barstow station was built by ATSF and operated as a "Harvey House" for many years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_House_Railroad_Depot

The City of Barstow owns it now and there are 2 small museums on the property.

 

[Nathanael]

Anise, this is one plausible way it could work for your story. The private railroad would have sold the historic station building off to the highest bidder. The station would then pass through multiple owners, each with a different plan for what to do with the station. Then the city would get passenger rail service to its "historic station" reinstated after a political campaign of some sort, with the private owner of the station agreeing to let Amtrak use the station (perhaps for a nominal fee).

This has happened before, as noted with the Oklahoma City situation.

In cases where passenger service has been operated continuously without a break, the station building is unlikely to both be in private hands and be in use as a train station. Usually either the original freight railroad still owns it, or Amtrak bought it, or one of the local governments bought it, or most commonly Amtrak abandoned the building and just uses the platform. However, when there's been a break in passenger service, it's actually fairly common for the station buildings to be privately owned even though they're used by Amtrak.

There are a lot more cases where passenger service was operated continuously, where the historic station building is standing right next to the platforms, privately owned but not used for train service, while Amtrak uses a prefabricated shack off to one side or just uses the platform with no station.

A really impressive situation is in Grand Junction, Colorado, which has one historic brick station (privately owned) in use as an office building, a second historic brick station (privately owned) is sitting derelict, and a wood-and-cinder-block building -- which is *also* privately owned, originally being a restaurant -- is being used as the current station.

http://trainweb.org/...il/grandjct.htm

http://www.greatamer...JT/Station_view

 

[JoeSF]

Emeryville Station is the main station for the SF Bay Area (sorry Oakland) and is owed by the Capital Corridor Joint Power Authority. It was developed in the early 1990's via a public private partnership with the developer of the land around it to replace the Oakland Station at 16th Street. I think the developer owns the land while CCJPA owns the building.

The Oakland 16th Street staion was severly damaged in the Loma Prieta earthquake in 1989, and was in a not ideal location. The Capital Corridor started operating at the same time and Amtrak service to the Bay Area went from two LD trains a day (in each direction) and two San Joaquins to 15 CC round trips, 4 SJs and 2 LDs in a short period. In the meantime. Emeryville was a bit of a backwater until that time but since has started booming. The CC started acting more like a commuter train, so lots of office and condo developments have spring up around the station, taking advantage of the proximity to the train.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Whitefish (WFH) is the busiest Amtrak station in Montana, and it's owned by the Stumptown Historical Society (http://stumptownhistoricalsociety.org/). By paying dues, you can become a member & own part of a station yourself!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

As another example, King Street Station was owned by the BNSF until early 2008, when the City of Seattle bought it for $10.

Did the City of Seattle actually just pay $10? This caught my eye before reading anything else!

 

[Carolyn Jane]

The little station in Jesup, GA burned 8 years ago, and has recently been rebuilt, with the aid of grant money from the state. It is owned by the city and leased to Amtrak by the month. They rebuilt in the still standing walls, with the original look. The historical society has a postcard out of the station as it was in 1919. EM

 

[Dovecote]

I will add my two cents worth since this post has resurfaced. The Harpers Ferry station building is owned by the National Park Service. They also maintain the station parking lot and sidewalks. MARC, the previous owner, owns the two dilapidated wooden porches that connect the underground "subway" allowing passengers to circumvent crossing the tracks. These two structures are an embrassment to a restored beautiful station and stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[Anise]

Wow!! Lots of answers. Thanks, y'all. I also talked to some friends tonight at a post-Christmas get-together, and they had even MORE ideas. I'm still not completely sure how this will work, but basically, there are 3 buildings owned by the same eccentric family, all of which use Richardsonian Romanesque architecture (based on the William Temple House-- it's not letting me a post a link, the Armory, good pic here,, and finally, Union Station. Pretty good pic here. All of the mysterious clues eventually lead to... the train station. (Ominous music.) So that's why I'm trying to figure out how it MIGHT make sense for the private family to own it. If they'd bought it almost five years before the narrative opens, it could work... and it does sound like that's possible.

 

[X]

As another example, King Street Station was owned by the BNSF until early 2008, when the City of Seattle bought it for $10.

Did the City of Seattle actually just pay $10? This caught my eye before reading anything else!

Nope, they only paid $1.

http://seattletimes....gstreet21m.html

 

[PRR 60]

As another example, King Street Station was owned by the BNSF until early 2008, when the City of Seattle bought it for $10.

Did the City of Seattle actually just pay $10? This caught my eye before reading anything else!

Nope, they only paid $1.

http://seattletimes....gstreet21m.html

The original deal was revised to $10 prior to closing. Why? No clue.

Seattle Times, 3/5/08

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

As another example, King Street Station was owned by the BNSF until early 2008, when the City of Seattle bought it for $10.

Did the City of Seattle actually just pay $10? This caught my eye before reading anything else!

Nope, they only paid $1.

http://seattletimes....gstreet21m.html

The original deal was revised to $10 prior to closing. Why? No clue.

Seattle Times, 3/5/08

Now that's a STEAL! It costs so much more just to renovate!

 

[JoeSF]

Hi all,

I know that this an old discussion, but I found it through Google and it's exactly what I'm looking for. I'm writing a mystery novel in which the planned destruction of a historic train station is a major plot point. HOWEVER, in order for this to work, the station has to be owned 100% by a private family. This doesn't even have to be something that's ever actually happened, but is it possible/plausible? All info appreciated!

Anise, It's not a currently operating station, but the Michigan Central Station in Detroit is a big neo-classical station on the order of Grand Central (same architect) that is owned by a company called Controlled Terminals Inc.which acquired the station in 1996 (long after Amtrak ended operations there). Controlled Terminals is owned by a guy named Manuel Moroun, who also, somewhat incredibly, owns the Ambassador Bridge between Detroit and Windsor Ontario.

Michigan Central is one of Detroit's more famous and fabulous ruins. Depsite being listed as a hitoric landmarked it is in complete disrepair, and site of many mysteries I'm sure.