Does anything with a locomotive going north originate in NYP?

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MattW

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Originally, I had wondered how anything with a locomotive that needed to be turned (not push-pull) would originate going north out of NYP. However, I looked through the Amtrak schedule and didn't see anything right off hand that uses a locomotive and heads North/East (toward Boston). Is there anything? The reason I ask, is because anything with a locomotive going south can simply use the locomotive to head out of Sunnyside, but if anything headed north, it would either require shoving all the way back to NYP, or attaching a pilot locomotive that would have to be detached in the station so I was curious what they did in that case...but it doesn't look like that's even a case!
 
Nope. Everything going to Boston is running through.

That said, trains shove from Ivy City down to WAS all the time. Put the conductor at the back door and let it rip.

Edit: Chicago, too.
 
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The question, and it's an interesting one, was whether there are any Boston-bound trains originating at NYP with a locomotive leading. The confusion is identifying the New York to Boston direction as "north." It is actually east. Since New York originating trains are serviced and assembled at Sunnyside Yard, located east of NYP, originating an eastbound train at NYP would require backing the train from Sunnyside to NYP - about 1.5 miles. That is not impossible, but considering the traffic congestion through the East River tunnels, it could present a dispatching challenge given the slow speed required for a backing move.

Even going back to the New Haven RR days, I can't think of an eastbound train that originated at New York Penn. Grand Central, yes. Penn, no.
 
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PRR 60 said:
The only Boston-bound (railroad east) originating trains at NYP are Acela's, which are, of course, push-pull.
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Also, looking at the schedule, I see only one Acela, #2190, that originates at NYP departing 6:20 AM to BOS on weekdays. #2290 departs NYP to BOS on Saturdays. If Amtrak had a Regional departing that early, they could conceivably back it up through the East River tunnels before the early morning LIRR traffic gets started and tie up a track for a while.

Before the Acelas came along, was there a Metroliner or Regional predecessor that originated in NYP for BOS in an early morning slot?

Compared to the early morning trains departing WAS northward to NYP, the NYP-BOS schedule is rather sparse. If Amtrak could run more than 19 trains a day from NYP to BOS*, say 21 or 23, and there were NHV line slots, there would probably be a 5 AMish Acela from NYP to get to BOS before 9 AM. But the Shore Line East and NHV line limits put significant constraints on the NYP-BOS schedule.
 
Yes, sorry for the confusion about the directions. I guess since the Empire Connection runs cardinal north out of NYP, that automatically makes the NEC East and West. But it's interesting that nothing locomotive hauled originated from there even before Amtrak. After looking at the revenue schedules again, I thought the same as afigg above, that there's a noticeable "gap" in early morning service to Boston.
 
There's not a HUGE gap between services. You've got 2190 at 6:20, 190 at 6:55, 2150 at 8:03, and 170 at 8:30. You don't get hourly service to Boston like you do to DC, but you still have fairly frequent service considering the constraints placed on the NEC by the Coast Guard.
 
PRR 60 said:
Even going back to the New Haven RR days, I can't think of an eastbound train that originated at New York Penn. Grand Central, yes. Penn, no.
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Back in the New Haven days, they did change from PRR to NH power (EP-5 "Jets"), for the thru trains at NYP...it wasn't until the Penn Central era, that GG1's went on to New Haven.

As far as a train originating at NYP for Boston....not sure if it was regularly done, but they could bring the train in from Sunnyside with the road power leading, and then run around the train at NYP. It would be an inconvenience, and probably tie up too much of the station tracks and switches for too long during busy periods, however....
 
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battalion51 said:
There's not a HUGE gap between services. You've got 2190 at 6:20, 190 at 6:55, 2150 at 8:03, and 170 at 8:30. You don't get hourly service to Boston like you do to DC, but you still have fairly frequent service considering the constraints placed on the NEC by the Coast Guard.
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From KIN, there are south bounds at 7:xx and 9:xx am - AE doesn't stop - but the morning north bounds are at 6:xx and then not until 10:xx am. So you either arrive BOS at 8 am or noon!
 
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Historically all New York originating eastbound trains on NYNH&HRR were from Grand Central, since that was NH's primary New York terminal. Only run through trains (like the Senator) exchanged with PRR went to Penn Station. So there never was a need to originate an eastbound NH loco hauled train out of Penn Station.

In the Amtrak days, there have been times when a very early morning departure towards Boston originated in Philly. There have also been those New England Express things for a little while that originated in New York. But back in those days, they did this AME-7 musical chairs in Penn Station. They used to platform two Metroliners nose to tail on the long platforms and just move the engine from the front of the rear train to the rear of the front train, and run the engine from the front train around to the rear train to turn two trains on one platform. So, running engines around was not unusual, and they had an engine or two ready to hook on in Penn Station. So it was no big deal for a consist to be towed in by an AEM-7 and another AEM-7 hooking on at the other end ready to depart east. But I think such practice has been discontinued since the advent of the Acelas, and specially since Regionals have grown to be consistently 7 or 8 or 9 cars.
 
battalion51 said:
There's not a HUGE gap between services. You've got 2190 at 6:20, 190 at 6:55, 2150 at 8:03, and 170 at 8:30. You don't get hourly service to Boston like you do to DC, but you still have fairly frequent service considering the constraints placed on the NEC by the Coast Guard.
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I was writing about the gap in the early AM trains from NYP to BOS compared to the southern half of the NEC. For southbound departures from NYP to PHL and WAS on weekdays, after #67 departs at 3 AM, there are Regionals departing at 4:40 AM, 5:30 AM, 6:05 AM; Acelas departing at 6 AM and 7 AM. I expect the #151 Regional departing NYP at 4:40 AM does not get a lot of passengers out of NYP, but is mainly for the PHL, WIL, BAL to WAS market.
For northbound departures from WAS to NYP on weekdays, there are Regionals at 3:15 AM, 4:00 AM, 4:52 AM, 5:30 AM, 6:30 AM; Acelas at 5 AM, 6 AM, 7 AM. The really early Regionals leaving before 5 AM presumably don't depart WAS with many passengers, but get WIL, PHL to NYP and for the 2 that run through NYP, NYP to BOS markets. I took the 5 AM Acela from WAS to NYP every couple of weeks s few years ago for business trips; typically left WAS with maybe 50-80 passengers, was full when it departed from PHL to NYP.

In comparson northbound from NYP, after #66 departs at 2:40 AM, the Acelas depart at 6:20 AM, 8:03 AM; Regionals at 6:55 AM, 8:30 AM. If there were slots available and enough Acela trainsets (and a faster ~3:15 trip time would help), it is a good bet that there would be an earlier 5 to 5:30 AM Acela from NYP to BOS, scheduled to arrive at BOS before 9 AM for the business market.
 
You would be surprised at the load factor of 190 (the 3:15 am departure from WAS) going to NYP. i have taken 190 many times, and it is heavily used thruout the southern NEC. And the turnover in NYP is large too. Even 66 has a large turnover in NYP - even at 3 am. (Not as large as later, but still significant.)
 
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