TraneMan
Conductor
Glad to see you son made it on the train, and he's out doing some adventure! I bet that warm train felt good to get on!
I'm so glad it worked out for you, I thought about your son's situation off/on yesterday. I wish him the best of luck with his military future. Peace.Tickets, voucher, I don't know, he did like a 15 day pass allowing 8 segments of travel. He has something printed that shows the 'reservations' and customer relations was concerned that he might have issues if he didn't pick up new 'tickets' with updated times and dates. He just texted a couple minutes ago...office was closed, guess the office person is the baggage handler and was unloading, go figure! Office re-opened he got his new 'tickets', back on the train headed to Portland! All is well!!
The thing is West Glacier IS NOT a flag stop. The train always stops there.Maybe Amtrak needs to install "flags" at the flag stops.
Good summary, Ryan.This one and the other one that had this happen on the Cardinal recently both.
It's easy to imagine a guest poster showing up here absolutely irate and just venting about how Amtrak is the worst and they're going to sue and call their congressperson and we're all stupid for liking Amtrak and yeah, they should have gotten out of their car and gone to the platform when they saw the train but IT'S AMTRACKS FAULT THEY SHOULD HAVE WAITED FOR ME!!!11!1!!!
Instead, both were level headed, and rolled with the punches. Sad that they were put in the situation and hopefully Amtrak will take corrective measures, but they handled it way better than most would.
Interestingly, I don't think this would have happened at a true flag stop, because IIRC they have methods with which they can create visibility to the loco engineer of their presence (usually a light switch).The thing is West Glacier IS NOT a flag stop. The train always stops there.Maybe Amtrak needs to install "flags" at the flag stops.
This falls in the "firing offense" category of mistake, however. Quite possibly the most important regular job of the conductor, outside emergencies, is to pick people up at flag stops.Amtrak conductors are human.
Humans make mistakes.
Indeed, hopefully the conductors involved will be fired with cause.It sounds like in this case and the other one, Amtrak handled the aftermath properly and did what it could to make things right.
Hopefully extra reminders will go out and they'll do better in the future.
That's an idea. Though I was just reminded that West Glacier isn't a flag stop, so I suppose Amtrak would need flags at every unstaffed station!Maybe Amtrak needs to install "flags" at the flag stops.
As any good company, I would expect Amtrak to investigate this thoroughly, to see if there were extenuating circumstances. However, not stopping at a station, especially one that has a ticketed passenger waiting on the platform, is to me, definitely cause to fire a conductor. Or at least, demote that person to a lower position where they would not be burdened with responsibilities they can't successfully handle.This falls in the "firing offense" category of mistake, however. Quite possibly the most important regular job of the conductor, outside emergencies, is to pick people up at flag stops.Amtrak conductors are human.
Humans make mistakes.
Indeed, hopefully the conductors involved will be fired with cause.It sounds like in this case and the other one, Amtrak handled the aftermath properly and did what it could to make things right.
Hopefully extra reminders will go out and they'll do better in the future.
That is a very good question (policy for station stops). Some of the stops on the Zephyr are in the middle of Nevada, where on winter nights people might be waiting in their cars until the train comes. I wonder if the conductor, if they are expecting boarding passengers, takes a look in the parking lot or even down the road to see if a vehicle is approaching?. I would think that they must have some written policy on this; hard to believe that the Glacier incident occurred (unless something was amiss).As any good company, I would expect Amtrak to investigate this thoroughly, to see if there were extenuating circumstances. However, not stopping at a station, especially one that has a ticketed passenger waiting on the platform, is to me, definitely cause to fire a conductor. Or at least, demote that person to a lower position where they would not be burdened with responsibilities they can't successfully handle.This falls in the "firing offense" category of mistake, however. Quite possibly the most important regular job of the conductor, outside emergencies, is to pick people up at flag stops.Amtrak conductors are human.
Humans make mistakes.
Indeed, hopefully the conductors involved will be fired with cause.It sounds like in this case and the other one, Amtrak handled the aftermath properly and did what it could to make things right.
Hopefully extra reminders will go out and they'll do better in the future.
This does have me wondering (and I am not attempting to come up with an excuse for this conductor), does Amtrak have any policies regarding station stops? For example, is there a minimum "open door" time at any station? A requirement that the conductor actually step out of the train, and onto the platform, to look both ways for any boarding passengers?
I have seen flags available in past years at flag stops. Maybe they've been eliminated because they were being placed out on the platform by malcontents just to stop a train that otherwise might have coasted thru?Maybe Amtrak needs to install "flags" at the flag stops.
I am hoping for such.I'm sure someone has the blue book and can post chapter and verse...
OK. One more time for those who missed it...... West Glacier is NOT a flag stop. It is a scheduled stop. So whether there is a flag or not at West Glacier is irrelevant.I have seen flags available in past years at flag stops. Maybe they've been eliminated because they were being placed out on the platform by malcontents just to stop a train that otherwise might have coasted thru?Maybe Amtrak needs to install "flags" at the flag stops.
Or maybe they were being stolen? (which would be a virtual guarantee today if the signs were made of copper).
Williams Junction, Arizona would be a Perfect Example of this! There's No There There! And the Van that Picks Up/Drops Off Passengers in the Dark to take them to the Grand Canyon is the Only thing Around for Miles! Wonder what Folks do that Drive themselves to this Stop? Or do they go to Flagstaff to Catch the Train/Pickup Passengers??? :hi:That is a very good question (policy for station stops). Some of the stops on the Zephyr are in the middle of Nevada, where on winter nights people might be waiting in their cars until the train comes. I wonder if the conductor, if they are expecting boarding passengers, takes a look in the parking lot or even down the road to see if a vehicle is approaching?. I would think that they must have some written policy on this; hard to believe that the Glacier incident occurred (unless something was amiss).As any good company, I would expect Amtrak to investigate this thoroughly, to see if there were extenuating circumstances. However, not stopping at a station, especially one that has a ticketed passenger waiting on the platform, is to me, definitely cause to fire a conductor. Or at least, demote that person to a lower position where they would not be burdened with responsibilities they can't successfully handle.This falls in the "firing offense" category of mistake, however. Quite possibly the most important regular job of the conductor, outside emergencies, is to pick people up at flag stops.Amtrak conductors are human.
Humans make mistakes.
Indeed, hopefully the conductors involved will be fired with cause.It sounds like in this case and the other one, Amtrak handled the aftermath properly and did what it could to make things right.
Hopefully extra reminders will go out and they'll do better in the future.
This does have me wondering (and I am not attempting to come up with an excuse for this conductor), does Amtrak have any policies regarding station stops? For example, is there a minimum "open door" time at any station? A requirement that the conductor actually step out of the train, and onto the platform, to look both ways for any boarding passengers?
And in these days of electronic manifests, the conductor should know in advance if, and how many, pax are scheduled to board, flagstop or otherwise.OK. One more time for those who missed it...... West Glacier is NOT a flag stop. It is a scheduled stop. So whether there is a flag or not at West Glacier is irrelevant.I have seen flags available in past years at flag stops. Maybe they've been eliminated because they were being placed out on the platform by malcontents just to stop a train that otherwise might have coasted thru?Maybe Amtrak needs to install "flags" at the flag stops.
Or maybe they were being stolen? (which would be a virtual guarantee today if the signs were made of copper).
The dates of the rail pass are beginning and end dates and the reservations have to match. If his trip starts a day later, then the 15 days is a day later and it can mess up all the rest of the reservations, so yes, he would need new paper tickets with the new dates.Glad to hear it, sounds like you've got a good kid there.
Perhaps the rail pass explains why he needed new tickets, do they still need paper tickets?
I don’t see how there was enough time to realize something was wrong and alert anyone before the train was already moving again.Common sense should also make one react to the fact that other doors aren't opening and that one should be proactive if one doesn't wish to get left behind.
This doesn't sound like the kind of kid that would miss a train due to being confused by the lights.The OP John made mention of the fact that his son observed the lights and assumed that meant that the doors were about to open. Unlike you, I provided helpful information that he could convey to his son with whom he was in contact with so as to avoid having his son make the same mistake again.
You also said that just before you went into how the passenger didn’t do his own “common sense proactive” waving of arms and shouting at whoever happens to be around in the span of sixty seconds or whatever he had available to him. One step forward and two steps back.You ignored the part of my statement where I clearly stated that the conductor should have done more.
You seem absolutely convinced that Amtrak is almost never 100% at fault. There’s almost always something the other side did that must be discovered (or simply imagined) and pointed out to everyone else. This thread being no exception. Oddly enough you don’t seem to have any similar problem assigning the passenger 100% of the blame when they're at fault.The only one muddying the water here would seem to be you. You're the one reading what you want to believe into the statements & questions that I posted.
The Blue Book says the conductor "must be on the platform at all station stops".This does have me wondering (and I am not attempting to come up with an excuse for this conductor), does Amtrak have any policies regarding station stops? For example, is there a minimum "open door" time at any station? A requirement that the conductor actually step out of the train, and onto the platform, to look both ways for any boarding passengers?
I'm sure you don't.I don’t see how there was enough time to realize something was wrong and alert anyone before the train was already moving again.Common sense should also make one react to the fact that other doors aren't opening and that one should be proactive if one doesn't wish to get left behind.
If that were true, then he wouldn't have told his dad what he did. You should really try reading what gets written instead of making things up to suit your version of reality.This doesn't sound like the kind of kid that would miss a train due to being confused by the lights.The OP John made mention of the fact that his son observed the lights and assumed that meant that the doors were about to open. Unlike you, I provided helpful information that he could convey to his son with whom he was in contact with so as to avoid having his son make the same mistake again.
Just more nonsense from you.You also said that just before you went into how the passenger didn’t do his own “common sense proactive” waving of arms and shouting at whoever happens to be around in the span of sixty seconds or whatever he had available to him. One step forward and two steps back.You ignored the part of my statement where I clearly stated that the conductor should have done more.
Nope! Never said that. That's you pretending that you have any clue what I'm thinking, much less saying, and pretending that you're an advocate for anything. On the other hand, it most certainly does seem that you are 100% convinced that Amtrak is always at fault. I spend my time trying to figure out what happened and why. You spend your time trying to twist my words to suit whatever you think fits with your desire to bash Amtrak all the time.You seem absolutely convinced that Amtrak is almost never 100% at fault. There’s almost always something the other side did that must be discovered (or simply imagined) and pointed out to everyone else. This thread being no exception. Oddly enough you don’t seem to have any similar problem assigning the passenger 100% of the blame when they're at fault.The only one muddying the water here would seem to be you. You're the one reading what you want to believe into the statements & questions that I posted.
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