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BuzzKillington

Service Attendant
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
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I just got back from a trip where I rode both in sleeper and coach on both the LSL and the Empire Builder and I was surprised at a few things. I was able to eat dinner on both trains and surprisingly, I actually liked the food on the "diner-lite" better than the meal I had on the Empire Builder. I suppose its possible that this was a fluke but I did like the Diner Lite dinner.

Sleeping cars went to the Viewliners over the Superliners by far. The in room sink and lack of constant rattling made the room much more enjoyable... as well as the top bunk windows and luggage rack and the overall size of the room.

Amfleet II coaches were definitely better as they had 2 outlets at every seat. The baggage space at the end of the row was more than enough for even the largest bags, and unlike the Superliner, you can keep an eye on your bags..

The part about the Superliners that did win was the sightseer lounge. Its a great place to spend a few hours of the trip... the Horizon Diner on the LSL is definitely an eyesore from the inside, but I guess it gets the job done just as well. I didnt spend more than 30 seconds in there. If anyone ever came up with a Viewliner sightseer lounge, the Eastern trains would definitely win hands down
 
Overall, I would give an edge to western trains.

  1. The scenery is better (in most place) and is better viewed from the upper level
  2. The Sightseer is better than the "lounge" on a single level train
  3. While the upper berth window is MUCH better on a Viewliner, I'd give the edge to the Superliner
  4. I feel the LD Superliner coach is better than the AFII (and there is "padding" - another level - between you and the trucks)
  5. The PPC is only on the Superliners
BTW, the same dinner I had in the PPC last October was also offered on the Diner-Lite on the LSL in March!
 
the_traveler said:
Overall, I would give an edge to western trains.
  1. The scenery is better (in most place) and is better viewed from the upper level
  2. The Sightseer is better than the "lounge" on a single level train
  3. While the upper berth window is MUCH better on a Viewliner, I'd give the edge to the Superliner
  4. I feel the LD Superliner coach is better than the AFII (and there is "padding" - another level - between you and the trucks)
  5. The PPC is only on the Superliners
BTW, the same dinner I had in the PPC last October was also offered on the Diner-Lite on the LSL in March!
Click to expand...

I also should say that Superliners have a lot more restrooms you can use.

And also, being Superliners, seems like you have a lot more "privacy" using them on the lower level

and you can take as long as you want without fear of holding it up! (because there are more per car than on Amfleets).
 
I've never ridden in a Superliner sleeper--my two western trips were both in coach--but aside from the outlet issue, I think the Superliner coaches are more comfortable. The ride is quieter on the upper level, you're not as disrupted by station stops, and the two levels just make it feel more open. If you don't mind lugging it upstairs, you can also fit a smaller suitcase into the overhead bin (it still beats the bins on the commuter bi-levels in the East, or the bins on buses).

I do love the Viewliner sleepers, though.

I'd be curious, though, about what new and/or more reluctant riders might think... especially what public reactions were in the late 1970s/early 1980s when the Superliners first arrived in the west (on non-Hi Level routes). When I was in Vancouver, BC a few months ago, I got into a conversation with two Canadians waiting for a bus, in sight of the Superliner consist for the SEA-VAC train, and they were rather impressed with how "modern and efficient" it looked. I don't mean to bash the VIA trains at all, but I found that to be an interesting comment.
 
I'll take the Viewliner sleepers hands down (windows/space/luggage room/toliet and sink) but IMHO the Superliner

coaches, Sightseer lounges and real diners (not CCC) give the edge to the Western Trains which do have the scenery!

As far as the food goes, sometimes its really good, sometimes its generic and sometimes its terrible, you just never know!

The other factor is the people, whether OBS or pax, genralization is sometimes a trap but generally the folks on the western trains seem more relaxed, smile more and seem to have a better time on the train! (lots of reasons for this, high stress in the cities and the harsh winters contribute to this in my experience!I know I was more uptight when I lived in the NE, even on the trains!) :D
 
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jimhudson said:
I'll take the Viewliner sleepers hands down (windows/space/luggage room/toliet and sink) but IMHO the Superliner coaches, Sightseer lounges and real diners (not CCC) give the edge to the Western Trains which do have the scenery!

As far as the food goes, sometimes its really good, sometimes its generic and sometimes its terrible, you just never know!
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I agree, I prefer the Viewliner. If I'm on a Superliner, I prefer the roomettes on the lower level. They are more convenient to the restrooms

and with fewer people. I've been to Dallas and to Denver, but not further west. I find the food about the same on all of the trains.

I haven't traveled in coach on the Superliners. Do most people prefer the upper level or lower level coach?
 
I definitely prefer the western trains, by a large margin.

The Viewliner rooms clearly have the edge on size and storage space, and I like having the sink ... but overall I think the rooms are fairly poorly designed and the cars are badly built. And I'd much rather have the toilet down the hall rather than in the room, both for sanitary and odor reasons, and because the toilet really reduces the size of one of the seats. And the view from an upper-level Superliner room definitely beats that from single-level equipment.

The remaining (Amfleet-type) equipment used in the east just doesn't have a good "feel" to me ... it's pretty obvious that we're riding in slightly-redesigned corridor equipment, rather than true long-distance cars. That's particularly the case with the lounges, which are really just coffee shops for coach passengers rather than true lounges. In contrast, the Superliner Sightseer lounges are great -- excellent places to hang out, watch the world go by, and meet people.

And finally, I think the western trains have a much better on-board ambience. Though I know I shouldn't make generalizations, I think that overall the western crews tend to be better, and the fellow passengers somehow seem more congenial. Interacting with other people is one of the great joys of train travel, and its much more pleasant to do that on the western trains.

And I won't even bother comparing the scenery, because most of the western trains win that hands down. :)
 
Montanan said:
The remaining (Amfleet-type) equipment used in the east just doesn't have a good "feel" to me ... it's pretty obvious that we're riding in slightly-redesigned corridor equipment, rather than true long-distance cars.
Click to expand...
The Amfleet II's were really designed to be used on runs like the Maple Leaf, Adirondack, Vermonter, Carolinian, and such; not so much for overnight long distance travel. They got pressed into duty as overnight cars thanks to a lack of funding to buy real overnight cars.
 
Montanan said:
And finally, I think the western trains have a much better on-board ambience. Though I know I shouldn't make generalizations, I think that overall the western crews tend to be better, and the fellow passengers somehow seem more congenial. Interacting with other people is one of the great joys of train travel, and its much more pleasant to do that on the western trains.
Click to expand...
I agree with you! ;)

Not to make generalizations, but when I lived out west, and traveled back to the east coast, I noticed a big difference between the western attitude and eastern attitude. Even among passengers from the east while on western trains! And the opposite happened when on eastern trains!

I still see the same thing today between east and west.
 
I really fail to see what is wrong with the Amfleet II's. They seem more modern than the Superliners, they have just as much leg room and room for baggage. Yeah, its cool to be able to sit up high in an upper level, but the single level equipment definitely does the job. I also like the red light up signs at both ends of the car.... it would be better if they could tell you what station was next.
 
BuzzKillington said:
I really fail to see what is wrong with the Amfleet II's. They seem more modern than the Superliners, they have just as much leg room and room for baggage. Yeah, its cool to be able to sit up high in an upper level, but the single level equipment definitely does the job. I also like the red light up signs at both ends of the car.... it would be better if they could tell you what station was next.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on the Amfleet IIs. Maybe it's just that I've had many dozen trips on Amfleet IIs and only six on Superliners (long after I'd become thoroughly accustomed to Amfleet IIs). I didn't find the Superliner coaches objectionable or inferior in any way, but I didn't find them better in any way either. More bathrooms, but much smaller and less-frequently/well cleaned in my experience and harder to get to. If anything, that's a slight negative in my opinion. And every passenger has to use the stairs -- downstairs passengers can't visit the lounge or diner without them, upstairs passengers can't go to the bathroom without them. Being young I don't mind so much, but I'm aware that it's very limiting for some riders.

Obviously, the single-level lounges are inferior and shouldn't even be considered "lounges" -- they're cafe cars, and that's it, ever since the seating was standardized to "all booth tables". Back in the day when lounge cars had little clusters of chairs and a smoking room, they were true lounge cars -- different than the sightseer experience, but great in their own right. You'd meet other passengers that way; on the single-level cafe cars, one or two people will claim a table as "their territory", and it's awkward to sit with them or start a conversation.
 
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Don't know "how" the first submission got there...apologise for any confusion.

NOW: When traveling solo the Viewliner is the hands down winner,roomwise;squeaks, rattles, etc included. There's pleanty of room for my underseat size bag and the top bunk comfort is super. Not to mention the ease of entry and egress.

When traveling with the bride, we opt for a Bedroom. With a Viewliner we HAVE to check the brides bag, as it is usually the first and last legs of a multiweek transcon trip. The Superliner on the other hand, accommodates her bag in the rack on the first level.

Food service wise, the route counts. The food service on the Silver Service has been quite good. The LSL and the Cardinal food service are in a word...awful. The Crescent blows hot and cold. The Superliners (SL, SWC, CZ) food service had been good but in the last couple of years has gone south; while the EB and CS seem to be bucking the trend and getting better.

The wild card is the lone Superliner east of Chicago, the CL. We usually take it on the penultimate leg of our trips, so we've had our fill with the same menu choices for four to six days.

It'd be nice if Amtrak could "standardize" their service to an acceptable/good level on all equipment, routes.

The high point of all our trips is the last leg; Acela First Class WAS/BOS. So far comfort and food service have been very agreeable.

Best regards,

Rodger
 
wayman said:
BuzzKillington said:
I really fail to see what is wrong with the Amfleet II's. They seem more modern than the Superliners, they have just as much leg room and room for baggage. Yeah, its cool to be able to sit up high in an upper level, but the single level equipment definitely does the job. I also like the red light up signs at both ends of the car.... it would be better if they could tell you what station was next.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on the Amfleet IIs. Maybe it's just that I've had many dozen trips on Amfleet IIs and only six on Superliners (long after I'd become thoroughly accustomed to Amfleet IIs). I didn't find the Superliner coaches objectionable or inferior in any way, but I didn't find them better in any way either. More bathrooms, but much smaller and less-frequently/well cleaned in my experience and harder to get to. If anything, that's a slight negative in my opinion. And every passenger has to use the stairs -- downstairs passengers can't visit the lounge or diner without them, upstairs passengers can't go to the bathroom without them. Being young I don't mind so much, but I'm aware that it's very limiting for some riders.

Obviously, the single-level lounges are inferior and shouldn't even be considered "lounges" -- they're cafe cars, and that's it, ever since the seating was standardized to "all booth tables". Back in the day when lounge cars had little clusters of chairs and a smoking room, they were true lounge cars -- different than the sightseer experience, but great in their own right. You'd meet other passengers that way; on the single-level cafe cars, one or two people will claim a table as "their territory", and it's awkward to sit with them or start a conversation.
Click to expand...
I could not agree with you more about single level lounge cars. The cafe seating concept is almost useless to me. I used to enjoy using the old lounge cars, built for the purpose. Whether I was eatng or drinking anything or not.

Contrast that with the superliner sightseer lounge , which is probably my number one favorite piece of Amtrak equipment.
 
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CHANGEATJAMAICA said:
When traveling with the bride, we opt for a Bedroom. With a Viewliner we HAVE to check the brides bag, as it is usually the first and last legs of a multiweek transcon trip. The Superliner on the other hand, accommodates her bag in the rack on the first level.
Click to expand...
Rodger,

If you're traveling in a Bedroom, and not a roomette, then you should have plenty of room for luggage in the Viewliner Bedroom. In addition to the cubby over the hall which can hold a bag or two depending on size, you can easily put 4 or 5 large suitcases on top of the shower/toilet/vanity unit.

You may find it easier to get the ladder out to put the suitcases up there, but there is a ton of storage space in that room.
 
the_traveler said:
Overall, I would give an edge to western trains.
  1. The scenery is better (in most place) and is better viewed from the upper level
  2. The Sightseer is better than the "lounge" on a single level train
  3. While the upper berth window is MUCH better on a Viewliner, I'd give the edge to the Superliner
  4. I feel the LD Superliner coach is better than the AFII (and there is "padding" - another level - between you and the trucks)
  5. The PPC is only on the Superliners
BTW, the same dinner I had in the PPC last October was also offered on the Diner-Lite on the LSL in March!
Click to expand...
The PPC is used only on the CS, not on other Superliner-equipped trains.

Is there any single-level equipment comparable to the Superliner LD coaches? That is, are there any recently constructed (IOW, constructed during the Amtrak era) coaches constructed especially for long-distance travel, not just for short trips, like the Amfleets seem to have been? Are the Horizons intended for long-distance travel, or, considering that they were adaptations from the Comet II commuter coaches, are they also primarily designed for shorter trips?
 
I think a big difference between the east and west trains, apart from the reasons mentioned, is that if you do the full trip, 3 days and 2 nights on a train seem like more of an adventure than the (at most) one nighters on the east side.
 
BuzzKillington said:
I really fail to see what is wrong with the Amfleet II's. They seem more modern than the Superliners, they have just as much leg room and room for baggage. Yeah, its cool to be able to sit up high in an upper level, but the single level equipment definitely does the job. I also like the red light up signs at both ends of the car.... it would be better if they could tell you what station was next.
Click to expand...
For me, being on the upper level of the sleeping cars for the view from the Superliner sleeping car is not a high priority on those routes that I have travelled many times. I wish that the Superliners had a bedroom or two on the lower level, but that would not work with the roomette configuration on the lower level.
 
I like the silly low platform steps-and-traps arrangement on eastern trains, I find it very fun! And it sort of gives some unique character to the operation of the trains that you don't find anywhere else whatsoever on any train in any other country I've been to.

I also like to hop out at stations sometimes (other than when I get a surly conductor who doesn't like it, but most seem to understand the desire for fresh air now and again), and therefore I see being disrupted by station stops a good thing, not a bad thing, which makes the uninterrupted superliner upper-deck a downside for me.
 
On single-level coaches (at least the older ones; I don't know about the Amfleets or Horizons), usually the vestibule is isolated somewhat from the seating area by the restrooms. Therefore, when the train stops to board passengers, the door opens at a point where passengers aren't disturbed.
 
For my money, my home train, the San Joaquin, along with the CC and the Surfliner, are among the best in the system. Especially now that they often run with refurbished Superliners, you get the outlet at every seat, the Superliner seat pitch and abundant restroom facllities (more restrooms mean cleaner restrooms). The California Amtrak cafe car is relatively new and clean and you dine on the upper level. Another amenity is bike racks. I like the way they look better too. The paint scheme is better and they just generally seem newer and less worn. Lower level seating is nicer too, and doesn't cost any more, for folks who have a hard time with the stairs. Comparing coach class of east and west, I'll take the far west.
 
As far as sleeping cars go, I'll take a Viewliner roomette over the Superliner roomette if traveling solo. Much better IMO. Private sink and toilet and I can leave the chairs alone and sleep in the upper berth with a full window. Dining cars depend on the equipment. A restored Heritage diner is just as nice as a Superliner diner, maybe nicer in some ways as they have more charm IMO. The Eastern lounge cars are awful as opposed to the Superliner Sightseer's which are great. Some dedicated Viewliner Lounges would make a huge difference. I don't ride coach overnight so I have no comment there, but the limited bathrooms on the Amfleet II's have to be a disaster.

The Eastern runs are all only one night so it's a different experience than the longer Western runs of two nights. But for me there's something about a single level train that feels more "authentic" than riding so high up on the Superliners.
 
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