EB Delay

[RRUserious]

Alan B: Don't ever try to "solve" a problem with a story like that. You have no idea if it is pertinent or not. So why even bring it up? Tell me, you think EVERY time they screw up, there somehow is a "human story" to explain it? If you put your child in a hospital and came back to find out it had died from a condition that almost never is fatal, would a "human story" make it all better? The FACT is that Amtrak is not a monopoly. No one is ever forced to choose them. So if they want JOBS, they better consider how their performance affects those who give them a chance. I could run off a long list of defunct companies whose employees thought their jobs were safe.

 

[JayPea]

The Amtrak Status Maps site says the 8 had a service disruption today and they have no arrival/departure info at all - making it look like the train never left Seattle. Anyone know what's up?

I believe that #7 was so late this morning that it turned in Spokane instead and passengers were bussed from Spokane to Seattle and points in between.

 

[AlanB]

Alan B: Don't ever try to "solve" a problem with a story like that. You have no idea if it is pertinent or not. So why even bring it up? Tell me, you think EVERY time they screw up, there somehow is a "human story" to explain it?

My point, which clearly you missed, is that sometimes there simply isn't time to do what you want, which is to call up the train's conductor, post a message on the website, and still manage to do all the other thing that employee in CNOC is charged with doing. And that employee isn't just working the Empire Builder. They're in charge of several other trains, which may or may not be having problems.

I don't excuse Amtrak's failures today to publicize the issues on the NEC. That was major, and well beyond the scope of their failure to notify you that your train might be late thanks to a last minute flood and closure on the normal route by a railroad that they don't control.

If you put your child in a hospital and came back to find out it had died from a condition that almost never is fatal, would a "human story" make it all better?

While you of course couldn't know it, you couldn't have chosen a worse analogy. While it wasn't my child, that did happen to one of my sisters.

The FACT is that Amtrak is not a monopoly. No one is ever forced to choose them. So if they want JOBS, they better consider how their performance affects those who give them a chance. I could run off a long list of defunct companies whose employees thought their jobs were safe.

I'm not arguing that Amtrak can't do a better job in many cases. I'm arguing that Amtrak couldn't do a better job in your case regarding the detouring of the Empire Builder. There are times where they've dropped the ball, like again on the NEC today. But your experience on the EB, NO.

 

[RRUserious]

Well, I guess this explains why you don't hear about Empire Building on Twitter (found this on the service disruptions page)

"Get real time updates on major Amtrak service disruptions in the Northeast Corridor, on Amtrak Cascades, Pacific Surfliner and San Joaquin"

Of course there is always "Julie". But when that came up on the trip,other people said they tried that and were told things that were obviously untrue.

 

[trainman74]

"Get real time updates on major Amtrak service disruptions in the Northeast Corridor, on Amtrak Cascades, Pacific Surfliner and San Joaquin"

Those are corridors that have specific Twitter feeds for service updates (@AmtrakNEC, @Amtrak_Cascades, @PacSurfliners, @SanJoaquinTrain). The latter three note in their Twitter profiles that the feeds are managed by Amtrak operations in Oakland, rather than going through the CNOC.

 

[PaulM]

I follow Amtrak on Twitter. Yet it did me no good at all.

Twitter

Based just on a general description, I've always put Twitter in the "just say no!" category; and now I know why. I clicked on the link and the first 4 twits were

We're glad you are enjoying the lounge How far are you traveling today?

We're sry to hear that. Pls call Cust Relations at 1-800-USA-RAIL, 7am-10pm, M-F (ET)

Awesome Welcome aboard. We hope you'll enjoy your ride with us.

Thank you for your kind words. We really appreciate it. Have a great day!

So my question is if you are looking for specific information, how do you cut through the drivel? Is non-drivel even allowed on Twitter?

 

[RRUserious]

I'm not arguing that Amtrak can't do a better job in many cases. I'm arguing that Amtrak couldn't do a better job in your case regarding the detouring of the Empire Builder. There are times where they've dropped the ball, like again on the NEC today. But your experience on the EB, NO.

If you honestly believe this, then I wonder what you've done all your life. Me, I've worked in critical situations and found TIME to communicate what needed to be communicated. You seem to believe that mass confusion is "understandable". Yeh, for the incompetent, it is. But I sincerely believe it is the RIGHT of passengers to know the record of response so they can walk into the circus in full awareness of how bad it can be. NO excuse for rationalizing bad performance. Only companies in deep trouble resort to that. And the record here clearly indicates an organization that is floundering. I can fully understand employees making up these things. But PASSENGERS? Since when do CUSTOMERS apologize for the bad service other customers experience? Tom Peters said it all about 30 years ago. If you make excuses for a company that gave you bad service, YOU become part of the problem!

 

[anir dendroica]

It's construction season on the hi line. Looking at the status files many of the trains are also losing time between MSP and Chicago, which I've heard is due to trackwork.

That is understandable, but the absence of any announcement is not. How about the railroad equivalent of those big lighted highway signs that say "road construction ahead - expect 1 hour delay." Even just an announcement to the effect of "Due to railroad maintenance work at several points along the route, the Train #8 has regularly been experiencing 2-4 hour delays through June, and these delays are likely to continue into July and August. If you are scheduled to connect to a train departing Chicago sooner than four hours after #8's scheduled arrival, be prepared for the possibility of a complementary overnight stay."

That would take, what, maybe five minutes of an employee's time. I understand when crises are not reported in a timely manner when information is lacking and employees are otherwise engaged, but I don't buy that as an excuse for Amtrak's overall failure to keep passengers in the loop.

Mark

 

[RRUserious]

Sounds like a nice, and sort of fundamental, idea. But let's not forget I was in cars in which even the routine announcements did not reach the passengers through some sort of difficulty with the PA system. Not sure what the attendants were up to, but I know it was not noticing and remedying the breakdown of the PA system.

 

[orion]

Just wait until the rail bridges around Devils Lake (Church's Ferry) close later this summer and fall for the big construction project which will shut down the line between Fargo and Minot North Dakota.... How timely will Amtrak alert the poor ticketed passengers in Rugby, Devils Lake, and Grand Forks which in total average 90 passengers a day/night or 630 a week (according to 2010 passenger numbers: http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/factsheets/NORTHDAKOTA10.pdf) that either alternate transportation will be provided or they will have to drive to the nearest station? We will see very soon. I will not hold my breath waiting for it to appear on the website or a "twitter" message.

 

[Ryan]

You personally monitored the attendant 100% of the time and verified that they were aware of the problem and made no attempt to solve it?

If you weren't sure what the attendants were up to, it's impossible to make the claim that they didn't notice the issue and attempt to solve it.

 

[AlanB]

Tom Peters said it all about 30 years ago. If you make excuses for a company that gave you bad service, YOU become part of the problem!

You see, the fundamental difference here is that only you believe that you got bad service regarding the issue of the EB's detour. You seem to expect that good service entails someone at Amtrak's CNOC located in Delaware first noticing that a river in Minnesota, more than a 1,000 miles away, was going to flood and close a rail line that they don't own. Then, after they figure out how to detour the train and get permission to do it, you seem to expect that they should send someone with a gun over to the head quarters of the detour host RR and hold the CEO hostage until he personally ensures that they have an employee standing by the tracks to guide the EB's engineer over the detour route. An employee that I might add, has to be fully rested under FRA rules in order to work. And no doubt that host is dealing with the repercussions of other trains being detoured, maxing out their available employees.

And then after all of that is done, you want that employee in CNOC to call up the train and make sure that the conductor personally comed to your room to explain all of what's been done and to seek your approval!

I'm sorry, but we live in the real world here.

I am truly sorry that things didn't work out for you and that you lost money on that hotel. I really am sorry!

But there are so many factors in that delay that were totally outside of Amtrak's control that you either just don't wish to understand or do care about, I'm not sure. Yes, I'm sure that the crew probably could have done better at telling people just what was happening. But quite frankly I'm sure that they didn't know, because Amtrak didn't know.

Amtrak could not have known for sure that river would flood. Amtrak definitely could not have known that the host RR would elect to close the route. And it is NOT Amtrak's decision to close that route.

Amtrak then did the next best thing that they could do, they may arrangements to detour the train to get everyone where they needed to be. But under FRA rules, Amtrak's engineers are not qualified to operate the train over the detour route. That means that the host RR must provide what's called a pilot. A pilot is another engineer who regularly works that route. Amtrak does NOT control the scheduling of the pilot; the host RR controls that. And even the host RR must still comply with the FRA rules on hours of rest for engineers. It is quite likely that the host didn't have a properly rested, qualified engineer available and had to wait an hour or two before they could call someone who had just completed their required hours of rest.

Contrast that with what happened on the NEC this weekend. Amtrak does own and control the NEC. While they may not have known the full extent of the damage until the light of day on Saturday morning, they knew Friday night that they were in big trouble. The 9PM overnight run, train #66 never left Washington DC because of the storms.

Yet the first tweet didn't even happen until 3:30 AM Saturday morning. And it took until around noon, IIRC, to post anything on Amtrak's website. Yes, I'm sure that calling let people know that there was a problem. But, regardless, that to me is inexcusable. Yes, I'm sure that some people still would have shown up at a train station to catch a train that wouldn't run because they didn't check the website. But anyone aware of the power problems in MD & VA due to the storm, might well have checked, only to find nothing.

But these are vastly different events. Amtrak is the only entity involved on the NEC and the event affected dozens of trains. In the case of the EB, it affected only 1 train, involved several entities, and we don't even know when the host closed the original route. It may have been only a hour or two before Amtrak was to start down those tracks that they closed things.

 

[AlanB]

Sounds like a nice, and sort of fundamental, idea. But let's not forget I was in cars in which even the routine announcements did not reach the passengers through some sort of difficulty with the PA system. Not sure what the attendants were up to, but I know it was not noticing and remedying the breakdown of the PA system.

If the PA isn't working, there is very little that an attendant can do to fix it. Most things are beyond the ability of the attendant to fix. And short of a conductor climbing down to the tracks at a station to check the communications cables between cars, there is very little that they can do enroute to fix a failed PA system.

In most case the only thing that the crew of the train can do is to note the failure in the log and hope that the yard crews fix it when the train gets to the end of its run.

 

[EB_OBS]

Sounds like a nice, and sort of fundamental, idea. But let's not forget I was in cars in which even the routine announcements did not reach the passengers through some sort of difficulty with the PA system. Not sure what the attendants were up to, but I know it was not noticing and remedying the breakdown of the PA system.

The PA situation at Amtrak constantly frustrates me. I've come to find out that there are like 4 or 5 different PA units and none of them are compatible with the other's connections inside the cabinet.

The Empire Builder has the additional problem that the train is split apart mid-route and connection problems result in the PA working poorly or not working at all in the cars from the lounge back. As a former LSA in the diner I was, as I said, constantly frustrated, with the PA system. I'm in my eighth year here and it hasn't got any better IMO.

I can assure you it's just as frustrating for the crew on-board, the ones that care, as it is for the passengers.

 

[zephyrstar]

I agree that if the PA system in a particular car is broken, there is probably little the crew can do to fix it enroute. However, even a simple acknowledgement of the problem to passengers would go a long way. A crew member could enter the car and say "Folks, the PA in this car is not working, but we would like to give you an update of what is happening. Also, the PA is working in the lounge and dining cars as well as the coach in front of this one. If you would like to hear further updates, please go to one of these cars." This would take 30 seconds of an employee's time and go a LONG way toward reassuring passengers and keeping them happy. Same can be said for the lack of information on the Amtrak website with the East Coast weather problems. Delays due to weather are certainly understandable. Not keeping passengers informed (even via very simple methods) is not.

 

[EB_OBS]

Well, BNSF coal train derailment 30 mi ease of Pasco, WA. I hear it's 30 cars on the ground on single track.

 

[CHamilton]

Well, BNSF coal train derailment 30 mi ease of Pasco, WA. I hear it's 30 cars on the ground on single track.

Coal train derails in Mesa; no one injured