EB - Lateness Problems This Summer

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RRUserious said:
Phil S said:
Yup, #7(10) now down almost 7 hours out of Havre -- and it hasn't even gotten to NW Montana which is largely w/o power from today's storms. Though I suppose the storm's effects ripple outward pretty quickly as trains pile up in both directions.

Still, is BNSF just trying to push too much metal in both directions, more than its infrastructure can handle, especially given all the freak weather? I realize there have been serious problems on non-BNSF parts of the EB route but it seems the BNSF high-line is now permanently running at half speed.

Phil
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Is BNSF the company that wants to send coal and oil trains to the west coast to export to Asia? Why don't they just tell Amtrak "forget the Empire Builder, we've got the track time totally used". Or they will if all of these plans come to fruition. Especially galling since it seems carbon emissions are causing the whole country to bake and the crops are being incinerated. And they want to facilitate MORE coal and oil combustion?
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BNSF's looked at it in the past, but it doesn't look like they'll actually do it based on how the mines and tracks are set up. Any exports will likely go down to the Gulf and out through the Canal, taking advantage of the widening. Bear in mind that coal traffic has also been down significantly this past year, double digit drops in car traffic if memory serves, so if anything, BNSF probably has less freight traffic on the EB's route this year than last (though I wouldn't know that for certain, that's simply a guess).
 
Paulus said:
BNSF probably has less freight traffic on the EB's route this year than last (though I wouldn't know that for certain, that's simply a guess).
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You're mistaken. Between frack sand and chemicals heading west and unit trains of oil heading east, the Hi Line is probably pushing more tons than it ever has. There was a Trains article a couple of months ago that gave a few statistics, but what I remember was that the local peddler west of Minot, ND, could take 3 days to make it back 90 miles.
 
Ispolkom said:
Paulus said:
BNSF probably has less freight traffic on the EB's route this year than last (though I wouldn't know that for certain, that's simply a guess).
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You're mistaken. Between frack sand and chemicals heading west and unit trains of oil heading east, the Hi Line is probably pushing more tons than it ever has. There was a Trains article a couple of months ago that gave a few statistics, but what I remember was that the local peddler west of Minot, ND, could take 3 days to make it back 90 miles.
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There's less coal trains here in MSP - but there's still several coal trains every day that deliver to the Sherco plant that is halfway between SCD and MSP.

Here in MSP - I live near the main line - there are several unit trains per day now hauling crude oil somewhere east - I checked the hazmat signs and the trains are labelled "crude oil"

Last November rode the EB to SEA -- there was obvious work on pipeline near Williston but that will be another year or two before the pipeline is competed.

Frack sand -- the local neighborhood paranoids are worrying about the the crude sand gons that accumulate in the local MNNR yard and then ship out to somewhere in Texas a a couple times per week - the sand comes from southern Minnesota and gets refined into "frack sand" down south somewhere - several hundred carloads per week.

Me - I don't worry about the carloads of sand - actually rough-crushed sandstone. But some folks are panicking -- "silica! OMG! inhalation hazard! - sheesh!
 
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The new "normal" for EB arrivals in Chicago this summer appears to be somewhere between 2 1/2 and 4 hours late, with today's EB scheduled to arrive more than 6 hours late. Sort of blows away almost all connection chances in the windy city doesn't it. My BNSF contacts say that the high line issues are a combination of factors-heat, increased rail traffic into and out of the Bakken Field (bringing in everything needed for the field and departing with oil-over 2500 car loads a week according to the energy people in ND), construction and of course track/equipment issues like the massive derailment last week and the car problems in Seattle a few days ago. Just not the EB's summer is it?

:-(
 
I spent a couple of hours yesterday watching BNSF's main line from SEA-PDX in Centralia, WA, and I was surprised at the number of trains that went by in a very short time. I saw a couple with brand-new "Auto-Max" car carriers, and at least one being hauled by four UP locos. Is BNSF having to detour some of its freight further south?
 
No BNSF detours that I know of. UP uses that track to serve Seattle (required so that BNSF doesn't have a monopoly on Seattle traffic), so the train with UP engines was most likely a UP train. BNSF also routes some of its Seattle and Tacoma traffic through Portland and Pasco rather than Everett and the Cascade Tunnel. Likely due to capacity constraints, fuel savings (no grades to speak of on the Gorge route), and the desire to route manifest traffic through the large classification yard at Pasco.

Mark

CHamilton said:
I spent a couple of hours yesterday watching BNSF's main line from SEA-PDX in Centralia, WA, and I was surprised at the number of trains that went by in a very short time. I saw a couple with brand-new "Auto-Max" car carriers, and at least one being hauled by four UP locos. Is BNSF having to detour some of its freight further south?
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Bad summer, bad winters......that's why I still have a little bit of hope round trip on EB in the Fall (Sept 22-Oct 2) will be a little better.
 
anir dendroica said:
No BNSF detours that I know of. UP uses that track to serve Seattle (required so that BNSF doesn't have a monopoly on Seattle traffic), so the train with UP engines was most likely a UP train. BNSF also routes some of its Seattle and Tacoma traffic through Portland and Pasco rather than Everett and the Cascade Tunnel. Likely due to capacity constraints, fuel savings (no grades to speak of on the Gorge route), and the desire to route manifest traffic through the large classification yard at Pasco.

Mark

CHamilton said:
I spent a couple of hours yesterday watching BNSF's main line from SEA-PDX in Centralia, WA, and I was surprised at the number of trains that went by in a very short time. I saw a couple with brand-new "Auto-Max" car carriers, and at least one being hauled by four UP locos. Is BNSF having to detour some of its freight further south?
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UP has trackage rights over BNSF between North Portland Jct just south of the Columbia River and Reservation in Tacoma. UP runs a pretty good amount of freight using those rights. I know BNSF tends to route loaded grain trains via the Gorge at the very least.
 
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Would the Keystone Pipeline, if implemented, significantly reduce the traffic on the rail line used by the EB?
 
Naismith said:
Would the Keystone Pipeline, if implemented, significantly reduce the traffic on the rail line used by the EB?
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No. Would not even make that big a dent. North Dakota has a daily average production of close to 600,000 barrels. Keystone in total was going to carry 900,000 per day, almost all from Canada. North Dakota oil was to be allowed 100,000 barrels per day of capacity through that pipeline. So even at current levels, you'd still have 5 of 6 oil trains and with production still ramping up, it would have even less of an effect.
 
Most of the oil-related traffic is headed east, which is not so bad for the EB as increased westward traffic. From Minot to Fargo the Devils Lake line is operating below capacity with almost all freight (including oil) on the Surrey cutoff track. As the track raise progresses there may be more freight moved over to the route used by Amtrak, but there is capacity there. From Fargo to Minneapolis is almost entirely double track, which can take more trains without gumming up too badly.

Westward from Minot is mostly single track with passing sidings all the way to Sandpoint, ID, with a few stretches of double track over Marias Pass and near Havre. Adding 5-6 daily trains that direction (such as might happen with coal exports) would probably have a major impact on EB performance.

Mark
 
yarrow said:
train 8 that arrives chi today(7/24)lost 3 hours between msp and rdw. anyone know why?
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I was on train 8 into Chicago on 7/24/12. About 10 minutes out of MSP we came to a stop and sat without moving for about 2.5 hours. Announcements on board indicated there was a rail break ahead of us and then a freight train broke down and needed some assistance. We were originally told we would need to wait on a BNSF freight train sitting beside us waiting to go, but we were eventually released before them. There were a few other shorter stops and slower speed areas as we worked through the resulting congestion. We were behind coming into MSP due to heat restrictions through eastern Montanna and North Dakota during the afternoon sun. We actually arrived early into one stop in Montana and had to wait until our scheduled departure time--before the heat restrictions.

Jon
 
I just finished a trip on #8 into CHI on 7/24--arrived 5 hours and 26 minutes late! The train is snake bitten. We lost 2 hours due to "heat restrictions" thru MT (temps in the 90's), then the next AM just after MSP we lost another 3 hours as a CP rail train engine broke down, then one of the tracks failed and the resulting mess and congestion took 3 hours to sort out. The rest of the trip was uneventful.

I wonder what happened to #8 today in MT--another 3 hour delay between stations--bummer.

No train is arriving even close to arrival time in CHI anymore.

C'est La Vie'
 
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