EB mess

[TraneMan]

A few video clips.

http://www.kstp.com/article/12303/?vid=5096663&v=1

I knew this one was going to happen after I saw the morning show saying something along the line of "We are live and waiting for the 8am train to be here...."

http://www.kstp.com/article/12303/?vid=5095782&v=1

 

[neroden]

BH doesn't really have a "business" per se other than being a holding company. BH already owned an incredibly diverse portfolio of companies before acquiring BNSF, from See's Candy to GEICO. BH originally, before Buffett, was textile manufacturing company. Buffett went heavily into insurance, then into anything that was profitable, undervalued and well-managed in Buffett's and Munger's analysis.

Buffet's approach has always been to let the existing management run the company, stand back, and leave it alone. Part of their acquistion strategy is that they evaluate the management in place and consider that management part of the assets they are buying. I know BNSF's management was left in place. BH itself has a tiny, tiny staff, deliberately, and really doesn't have the capacity or the desire to dig in and closely run any of it's acquired companies. It doesn't have very many "suits".

So this talk about BH interfering with BNSF isn't consistent with Warren Buffett's MO. Not to say it isn't true, I know no details here, but it is certainly inconsistent with Buffett's philosphy and track record and makes me wonder about that theory.

Agreed. The best hypothesis I've seen was that the "suits" at BNSF wanted to impress Warren Buffett and mistakenly thought that in order to do that, they should continue spewing out the same level (or more) of dividends to BH as before, even if it hurt their capital needs.

One thing that is generally expected is that every concern owned by BH take care of its own capital needs. Getting money from BH happens, but it is more the exception than the rule. BNSF not getting additional funds from BH beyond what it had access to on its own, and prioritizing accordingly, rightly or wrongly, I would believe.

The problem is that BNSF continued to spin money out to BH. This was an error. The correct thing to do was to keep all the income internally for capital needs. Previously, when it floated on the stock market, BNSF had to issue a dividend for market reasons; it doesn't any more, and so BNSF should now only send money "upstairs" to BH after taking care of its own capital needs. Perhaps this shift in mentality was difficult for the people running BNSF.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Amtrak is really starting to confuse me.

There are now TWO official EB schedules on amtrak.com - one labeled "effective April 15, 2014" (the new, padded schedule) and another labeled "effective June 9, 2014" (reverting back to the old schedule). I'm fairly certain that only the April / adjusted schedule was there until recently. This makes it appear that things are now going back to normal on June 9. However, Amtrak has clearly moved the "delayed" schedule past June 9 (trying to book on the website shows the delays into effect through June 15th at the moment), and we all know that there's almost zero chance that the old schedule will be put back in place.

I don't understand why they would update the site with old information that is already out of date & is, in fact, less accurate than what they already had posted.

 

[zephyr17]

BH doesn't really have a "business" per se other than being a holding company. BH already owned an incredibly diverse portfolio of companies before acquiring BNSF, from See's Candy to GEICO. BH originally, before Buffett, was textile manufacturing company. Buffett went heavily into insurance, then into anything that was profitable, undervalued and well-managed in Buffett's and Munger's analysis.

Buffet's approach has always been to let the existing management run the company, stand back, and leave it alone. Part of their acquistion strategy is that they evaluate the management in place and consider that management part of the assets they are buying. I know BNSF's management was left in place. BH itself has a tiny, tiny staff, deliberately, and really doesn't have the capacity or the desire to dig in and closely run any of it's acquired companies. It doesn't have very many "suits".

So this talk about BH interfering with BNSF isn't consistent with Warren Buffett's MO. Not to say it isn't true, I know no details here, but it is certainly inconsistent with Buffett's philosphy and track record and makes me wonder about that theory.

Agreed. The best hypothesis I've seen was that the "suits" at BNSF wanted to impress Warren Buffett and mistakenly thought that in order to do that, they should continue spewing out the same level (or more) of dividends to BH as before, even if it hurt their capital needs.

One thing that is generally expected is that every concern owned by BH take care of its own capital needs. Getting money from BH happens, but it is more the exception than the rule. BNSF not getting additional funds from BH beyond what it had access to on its own, and prioritizing accordingly, rightly or wrongly, I would believe.

The problem is that BNSF continued to spin money out to BH. This was an error. The correct thing to do was to keep all the income internally for capital needs. Previously, when it floated on the stock market, BNSF had to issue a dividend for market reasons; it doesn't any more, and so BNSF should now only send money "upstairs" to BH after taking care of its own capital needs. Perhaps this shift in mentality was difficult for the people running BNSF.

THAT makes sense from what I know of BH. Not that BH intruded, but BNSF management didn't take the cues for new world. Buffett expects a profit, but only after a well managed concern takes care of itself. That's part of being "well managed." That's the only way BH's very hands off style works.

 

[zephyr17]

Amtrak is really starting to confuse me.

Only starting to confuse you? You're lucky. They confuse me all the time. The only consistency is inconsistency.

 

[montana mike]

Amtrak is really starting to confuse me.

Only starting to confuse you? You're lucky. They confuse me all the time. The only consistency is inconsistency.

LOL

Given the fact that over the past three weeks the average delay into CHI has been 257 minutes for #8, I don't see how it would be remotely possible to go back to the old schedule and in effect lose another three hours on top of the already dismal performance under this new schedule. The Empire Builder would routinely be arriving around midnight almost every night in CHI. As several folks said, all the padding has done is allow the BNSF dispatchers to defer to the freights and keep the EB's at almost the same pace as before the extra 3 hours were tacked on to the eastbound schedule. Westbound the delays are not much better btw.

Very frustrating!!

:-(

 

[AngusThompsom]

All this discussion is getting me excited for my trip to Boston, the first leg is on the EB.

 

[montana mike]

Enjoy the many extra hours on the train--overall it is relaxing and much of the scenery is delightful. We used to be able to say have fun with the Wine and Cheese event as well, but then that's another topic of conversation!! Sounds like you will be connecting with the LSL. Even with the very late arrivals the EB does manage to make that connection, albeit with a little help by delaying the LSL from time to time to make sure all of the connecting pax make that train.

 

[yarrow]

8(10) grazed a car west of wenatchee this evening which set it back 90 minutes while the authorities arrived and investigated. no injuries,afaik

 

[AngusThompsom]

We booked back in April for our July trip, we got a room but are having "fun" discussing the timing of Amtraks "cutbacks" and our trip.

I haven't been on the EB in 20 years and wasn't able to afford a room then.

I appreciate everyone's contribution in this forum, and look forward to doing the same in July!

Can we still get ice?

 

[amamba]

We booked back in April for our July trip, we got a room but are having "fun" discussing the timing of Amtraks "cutbacks" and our trip.

I haven't been on the EB in 20 years and wasn't able to afford a room then.

I appreciate everyone's contribution in this forum, and look forward to doing the same in July!

Can we still get ice?

Yes, your attendant in the sleeper will have a styrofoam cooler full of ice for you to use.

 

[NW cannonball]

Ice, yes. Connections to the LD network, no, no, no.

Last couple months, daughter went MSP-SEA, and departed one day early (she had the free time) to make her event in SEA. Just now, she took the dog MSP to CHI to catch the Capitol Limited, because the EB does not connect any more.

The "captive customers" on the Hi-Line between MSP and SPK will ride the EB because there are no reasonably fast and cheap alternatives (same for the freight customers in the same range).

Here in MSP - the Empire Builder is the only Amtrak service. It is a severely damaged service, just like everyone on this long, long, thread has been saying for a long while. I love the ride, and the scenery, and all the places I can visit east or west from MSP on the EB. But - this route is broken, and will likely stay broken, for a couple years yet.

It is sorrow.

 

[andersone]

Well Angus I haven't been on the EB since 1973,,, and i said the right thing to the right woman at the wrong time and do I have a story about the LIbby station,,, i hope my trip to GPK in August will have far less drama,,, not only will she who must be obeyed factor into the equation,,, but

 

[TraneMan]

Wonder what happen to #8 today in MT? Was doing pretty good now after 4 hours late.

 

[Phil S]

Wonder what happen to #8 today in MT? Was doing pretty good now after 4 hours late.

Looks like #7 got held up in about the same place. Probably just too much traffic. Nothing on TO.

 

[montana mike]

Wonder what happen to #8 today in MT? Was doing pretty good now after 4 hours late.

Yup, sad to see that things can get so congested that it takes hours and hours for the dispatchers to untangle things. Sort of like the Dan Ryan Expressway in Chicago in the evening rush hour!!

 

[Ispolkom]

The "captive customers" on the Hi-Line between MSP and SPK will ride the EB because there are no reasonably fast and cheap alternatives (same for the freight customers in the same range).

That's pretty much it.

 

[montana mike]

The "captive customers" on the Hi-Line between MSP and SPK will ride the EB because there are no reasonably fast and cheap alternatives (same for the freight customers in the same range).

That's pretty much it.

I would have agreed 100% with this until recently. A few of Agro interests in ND and MT have gotten "creative" lately and have worked on alternatives to BNSF to move their products. This isn't a "palace revolt" by any means, but it does demonstrate that the railroad cannot just take their customers for granted. If the mega delays continue for these agricultural folks I would expect more and more will try other ways to move their products to market.

The pax, however, are pretty much stuck with the Empire Builder as long distance transportation. There are some airports, but fares are high and the drives to these elections often quite long.

 

[The Whistler]

Today the EB #8 train is over 6 1/2 hours late arriving into Chicago. This type of continued gross lateness is very unacceptable and something needs to be done about it.

 

[zephyr17]

Today the EB #8 train is over 6 1/2 hours late arriving into Chicago. This type of continued gross lateness is very unacceptable and something needs to be done about it.

Um, what?

 

[fairviewroad]

Today the EB #8 train is over 6 1/2 hours late arriving into Chicago. This type of continued gross lateness is very unacceptable and something needs to be done about it.

Um, what?

I think that technically, "gross lateness" only applies to trains that are more than 12 hours late.

 

[greatcats]

Six and a half hours late must be a new development. How revolting! Never heard of such a thing! Heads should roll!

 

[montana mike]

LOL

Now looking like a likely arrival in CHI after midnight!!!!!

Arrgh.

 

[greatcats]

Now due at 12:38am, nearly nine hours late. Mr. Boardman must have ticked off BNSF this week. :angry: Hmmmm....

 

[montana mike]

Another brutal day for the Empire Builder to be sure-ugh!

:-(