Effective Transit Alliance's view on the New York Regional Rail network

[Thirdrail7]

Running an ALP45DP on LIRR in lieu of 3rd rail MU's would have to be in diesel mode throughout 3rd rail territory and could never run to Grand Central Madison or Brooklyn. They also do not change modes while moving. That may be fun for a Saturday railfan excursion, but completely ridiculous otherwise

LIRRs current diesel fleet can't fit into Grand Central either, which is why I said "most places." Additionally, if you think about it, diesels routinely operate into and out of NYP at this point. So, running an ALP-45 in diesel through NYP and into LIRR, would not be something to summarily dismiss as not possible. You can bring the ALP from NJ or CT in electric mode and change over to diesel on the platform, just prior to departure. The East River Tunnels supposedly have ventilation fans, that will hopefully get upgraded if they ever start the rehab projects.

Is it optimal? Maybe not, but it is entirely possible, right now since there is nothing that specifically forbids diesel operations into NYP.

And even then, they lack the ASC speed codes for the LIRR, which does not come cheap, and without it means a lot of slow running, unknown or false signal indications, and penalty stops.

Amtrak supposedly want to operate out into LIRR territory. As such, you would have to modify their train controls systems to conform. You could do the same for an ALP or whatever piece of equipment you want to buy. It is not uncommon to have multiple train control systems on a given piece of equipment these days.

These problems are hardly insurmountable by todays standards. The future should knock down even more barriers.

That being said, I still think it is a bad idea to have through running equipment.

 

[jis]

The positive thing about the proposal is that at least in the early phases it is not proposing blanket through running, but only of select route(s), which reduces the dislocation problem in case of delays to primarily the through running route, and of course some knock on, but that happens anyway. In some ways, it is similar to what Amtrak already does.

The latter phases of the proposal are progressively more and more fantasy land since the sort of organizational change that will be required to enable those won't happen easily spanning the multiple fiefdoms and state DOTs involved. A prerequisite I think will be a New York Area Transit Authority, and even then it is not clear that it will not devolve into a mush like the PANYNJ has.

Frankly just spitballing here, as a first step of run through, they could leave all existing services alone and just do a Jamaica to Rahway train hourly or half hourly if they can find the slots, which they should be able to at all times except Commission Hours I suspect. It will be necessary to reactivate the Graw Yard at Union interlocking to turn the trains at Rahway, and cobble together the few consists needed possibly in a pull-pull mode with a discarded ACS64 at one and and a DE30 at the other. An additional nice thing would be that it would provide a good way to transfer between EWR and JFK. If they cannot make a simple isolated run through like that work, anything else is even less likely.

 

[eldomtom2]

No it is not an absurd claim for the platforms. The proof is looking at the "progress" that has been made over 30 years. Most of the M&E and the RVL still has low level platforms.

Why do you think progress has been slow?

10 minutes dwell time is exactly how long LIRR trains spend sitting in Penn Station and no more than that. It is not LIRR's responsibilty to solve NJT's problems. Since LIRR and NJT trains are routinely 5 to 10 minutes late, OTP would plummet, screwing up connections and single track passing meets on both systems.

You will paralyze the region with one major disruption if through running equipment comes to fruition.

Most countries with through running are not known for their always punctual trains. Why does it work for them but it can never work for NY?

If people wish to travel from one side to the other, they can transfer, and that can be done in 2 or 3 minutes. You don't disrupt 2 railroads for the 1% that do. LIRR is already catching abuse for altering the entire railroad for the 36% minority headed to Grand Central. With 70 route between LIRR & NJT permuations, the odds of satisfying anyone's itinerary ranges from infinitesimal to zero.

Yet every other city has plenty of passengers using through running trains. Again, where is your evidence that NY is significantly different?

 

[Thirdrail7]

Most countries with through running are not known for their always punctual trains. Why does it work for them but it can never work for NY?

Who says it "works?" Does it "work" or do is it merely "accepted?" What are the regulations involved that may be an issue over here? In either event case, just because some other country or state does something one way, doesn't necessarily mean it is the best option or route for another area.

At the end of the day, this point is the easiest thing verify. One only needs to look at the various railroads and their disruptions to see that through running equipment can easily spread to another railroad. It happens now, without through running equipment. Through running equipment will likely extend the situation and prolong the recovery time.

 

[eldomtom2]

Who says it "works?" Does it "work" or do is it merely "accepted?"

It works in that they are able to provide a reliable enough service for millions of commuters to use it.

In either event case, just because some other country or state does something one way, doesn't necessarily mean it is the best option or route for another area.

That's perfectly true, but nor is it the case that what other cities do is irrelevant. If everywhere else does something, it is at least worth considering.

 

[Literalman]

I read “Modernizing New York Commuter Rail: A Report by the Effective Transit Alliance” and had some thoughts about it. What I put together was too long for a comment on this site, so I uploaded it as a web page on my own website at http://www.stevedunham.50megs.com/ModernizingNYCommuterRailComments.htm