Emergency Cord

[ALC Rail Writer]

You should only pull the cord if someone is caught in the door and being dragged.
You don't pull it for a medical emergency (find a conductor), you don't pull if for a fire (you move to another car), and you don't pull it becuase you missed your stop.

The Eschede train disaster probably could have been prevented if the emergency cord had been pulled.

IIRC, One passenger noticed the wheel sticking through the floor, and was going to pull the emergency brake, but was warned against it by the conductor.

and the "its company police not to stop the train until the conductor as investigated the problem" held up in court as the crew on the train were charged with murder or something.

::In German::

"Manager, there is a wheel sticking through the floor in our car."

How do you think that would have gone over? My reaction would have been to ask if the guy had been drinking.

 

[VentureForth]

Actually it is black and white. By law you cannot pull that cord for any of the reasons listed...

If I were on board a train that was running cab car forward and I was sitting in the front and I saw the engineer run a red signal, I wouldn't wait 22 seconds to find the conductor if the engineer wouldn't respond to my banging on his window. I'd pull the cord before running head first into another train and answer questions later.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Actually it is black and white. By law you cannot pull that cord for any of the reasons listed...

If I were on board a train that was running cab car forward and I was sitting in the front and I saw the engineer run a red signal, I wouldn't wait 22 seconds to find the conductor if the engineer wouldn't respond to my banging on his window. I'd pull the cord before running head first into another train and answer questions later.

How sure are you that signal was red?

 

[VentureForth]

Actually it is black and white. By law you cannot pull that cord for any of the reasons listed...

If I were on board a train that was running cab car forward and I was sitting in the front and I saw the engineer run a red signal, I wouldn't wait 22 seconds to find the conductor if the engineer wouldn't respond to my banging on his window. I'd pull the cord before running head first into another train and answer questions later.

How sure are you that signal was red?

I'm not referring to any specific incident. Just a hypothetical.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Actually it is black and white. By law you cannot pull that cord for any of the reasons listed...

If I were on board a train that was running cab car forward and I was sitting in the front and I saw the engineer run a red signal, I wouldn't wait 22 seconds to find the conductor if the engineer wouldn't respond to my banging on his window. I'd pull the cord before running head first into another train and answer questions later.

How sure are you that signal was red?

I'm not referring to any specific incident. Just a hypothetical.

I'm aware.

But again, your eye isn't trained. How sure are you that signal was red?

I could have sworn I've been on the CL and they ran reds, but I'm still here. Eyes play tricks on you, especially when you dont have training.

 

[Ryan]

Presumably by looking out the front window.

 

[George Harris]

Actually it is black and white. By law you cannot pull that cord for any of the reasons listed...

If I were on board a train that was running cab car forward and I was sitting in the front and I saw the engineer run a red signal, I wouldn't wait 22 seconds to find the conductor if the engineer wouldn't respond to my banging on his window. I'd pull the cord before running head first into another train and answer questions later.

How sure are you that signal was red?

I'm not referring to any specific incident. Just a hypothetical.

How would you know:

If multiple signal heads, which one applies to the train you are on?

If a single, whether the engineer has been told it is malfunctioning and the signal is to be regarded as suspended and he has manual block or train order clearance to pass it?

Some other reason I can't even think of?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Actually it is black and white. By law you cannot pull that cord for any of the reasons listed...

If I were on board a train that was running cab car forward and I was sitting in the front and I saw the engineer run a red signal, I wouldn't wait 22 seconds to find the conductor if the engineer wouldn't respond to my banging on his window. I'd pull the cord before running head first into another train and answer questions later.

How sure are you that signal was red?

I'm not referring to any specific incident. Just a hypothetical.

How would you know:

If multiple signal heads, which one applies to the train you are on?

If a single, whether the engineer has been told it is malfunctioning and the signal is to be regarded as suspended and he has manual block or train order clearance to pass it?

Some other reason I can't even think of?

Exactly, and signals can differ somewhat railway to railway. Last years incidente with the Pere demonstrated that even trained professionals can mistake signals...

Simply put: If you're pulling the emergency brake you're risking derailing the cars at full speed. Which is why, as Alan said, its best function is if the train is moving when people are trying to get on or detrain or are being dragged.

 

[frj1983]

I might add that when a Metra Train leaves the Aurora Station to begin it's journey to Chicago, the signal changes to green, but as the cab control car passes the signal it changes to red. So if I'm sitting back 3 cars, I would see a red signal, but not know the green was given to start. Should I panic and pull the chord? My panic would be fueled by a wrong conclusion!

Just a thought. B)

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

*Yanks trainfan's emergency brake handle*

 

[trainfan]

Actually it is black and white. By law you cannot pull that cord for any of the reasons listed...

If I were on board a train that was running cab car forward and I was sitting in the front and I saw the engineer run a red signal, I wouldn't wait 22 seconds to find the conductor if the engineer wouldn't respond to my banging on his window. I'd pull the cord before running head first into another train and answer questions later.

How sure are you that signal was red?

I'm not referring to any specific incident. Just a hypothetical.

I'm aware

But again, your eye isn't trained. How sure are you that signal was red?

I could have sworn I've been on the CL and they ran reds, but I'm still here. Eyes play tricks on you, especially when you dont have training.

I have noticed that a signal will change almost as soon as the engine or cabcar passes , so if you are several

cars back it could be red>

Trainfan

 

[gswager]

I have noticed that a signal will change almost as soon as the engine or cabcar passes , so if you are severalcars back it could be red>

Trainfan

I seconded that. I'm definitely sure that the signal ahead of locomotive is either yellow or green. Once the loco has pased by the signal tower, it turned to red.

 

[VentureForth]

Well, I understand all of that. But in a situation where you're riding in the cab car, you're looking out the front window, and the engineer approaches a red at speed, would it be worth the fine?

I know that Amtrak has a rule that no matter if the host railroad has an order out saying that you can pass a red because it's not hooked up or its new or for whatever reason, Amtrak has to stop at every red or non-illuminated signal, and get clearance.

When I lived in Los Lunas, NM, and they were installing signals for the Railrunner, this was happening. There were two red lights about a 1/4 mile apart. There was a BNSF signal man I was talking to when Amtrak came through. They stopped at both. Couldn't be cleared to go through both at once - had to happen one at a time. Stop. Verify the switch. Get clearance. Proceed with caution to the next block.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Well, I understand all of that. But in a situation where you're riding in the cab car, you're looking out the front window, and the engineer approaches a red at speed, would it be worth the fine?
I know that Amtrak has a rule that no matter if the host railroad has an order out saying that you can pass a red because it's not hooked up or its new or for whatever reason, Amtrak has to stop at every red or non-illuminated signal, and get clearance.

When I lived in Los Lunas, NM, and they were installing signals for the Railrunner, this was happening. There were two red lights about a 1/4 mile apart. There was a BNSF signal man I was talking to when Amtrak came through. They stopped at both. Couldn't be cleared to go through both at once - had to happen one at a time. Stop. Verify the switch. Get clearance. Proceed with caution to the next block.

And what if the engineer has received notice from dispatch to ignore the signal?

Would you risk derailing the train on a hunch like that?

 

[VentureForth]

I don't think that pulling the emergency cord would really risk derailing the train to the extent that it would be more unsafe to not pull it. As mentioned early on in this thread, it lets the air go. Train stops, but not instantaneously. There would have to be a lot of things set wrong in the chain of events to a train to derail in emergency.

 

[TVRM610]

I don't think that pulling the emergency cord would really risk derailing the train to the extent that it would be more unsafe to not pull it. As mentioned early on in this thread, it lets the air go. Train stops, but not instantaneously. There would have to be a lot of things set wrong in the chain of events to a train to derail in emergency.

Not so, any time a train goes into emergency at speed a derailment is very possible for a variety of reasons. This is more so on frieght trains then passenger trains but still. This kind of reminds me of a kid being told not to do something over and over again "but mom what if this happens, or this" bottom line is the Emergency brake is on the train for the Train Crew to use in a real legitimate emergency. The emergency brakes should never be pulled by a passenger ever under any circumstances.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

This kind of reminds me of a kid being told not to do something over and over again "but mom what if this happens, or this" bottom line is the Emergency brake is on the train for the Train Crew to use in a real legitimate emergency. The emergency brakes should never be pulled by a passenger ever under any circumstances.

This is the number one point right here!!!!

OBS gone freight...

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

Well, I understand all of that. But in a situation where you're riding in the cab car, you're looking out the front window, and the engineer approaches a red at speed, would it be worth the fine?I know that Amtrak has a rule that no matter if the host railroad has an order out saying that you can pass a red because it's not hooked up or its new or for whatever reason, Amtrak has to stop at every red or non-illuminated signal, and get clearance.

Here's a question for you. Using your example as the scenario, you happen to see that very signal which is red! Do you know for sure that is actually your train's signal? Probably not! Here's something (one of many things) you should be mindful of. Even us employees have to be careful to make sure that a signal which is displayed is actually the aspect intended for our train on the track we are on! You could be in multiple track territory and see such a signal which you might think it is your's but it really isn't (it may be a signal governing another track)! We have places in my territory where (in this example we are on the main track) we will see the signal governing the main track, proceed or stop (depending on that signal's indication), and then be able to see the signal for the other main track, siding, etc shortly after we pass the first one which happened to be our actual signal!

This is why you let us (the employees) run the railroad, and take care of our assigned train. We are the ones who are responsible for our train, it's passengers or freight (depending on which one). There are even rules we must follow in the event of an incident where we must protect other tracks (to signal or flag nearby trains) in the unfortunate event of such an incident! As a matter of fact, there is another thread on here regarding an Amtrak train and a TriRail train down in South FL which is a direct result when crews don't follow the rules properly!

OBS gone freight...

 

[AlanB]

Well, I understand all of that. But in a situation where you're riding in the cab car, you're looking out the front window, and the engineer approaches a red at speed, would it be worth the fine?I know that Amtrak has a rule that no matter if the host railroad has an order out saying that you can pass a red because it's not hooked up or its new or for whatever reason, Amtrak has to stop at every red or non-illuminated signal, and get clearance.

Here's a question for you. Using your example as the scenario, you happen to see that very signal which is red! Do you know for sure that is actually your train's signal? Probably not! Here's something (one of many things) you should be mindful of. Even us employees have to be careful to make sure that a signal which is displayed is actually the aspect intended for our train on the track we are on! You could be in multiple track territory and see such a signal which you might think it is your's but it really isn't (it may be a signal governing another track)! We have places in my territory where (in this example we are on the main track) we will see the signal governing the main track, proceed or stop (depending on that signal's indication), and then be able to see the signal for the other main track, siding, etc shortly after we pass the first one which happened to be our actual signal!

I'll give you another one. Here in the NYC subway system we have something known as grade timing signals. These are signals usually on a big hill or right before a sharp curve that remain red after a train passes. That of course means that the signal ahead is yellow and the one before that green. When the next train passes the green signal, it starts a timer running on the red signal. That time counts down a predetermined number of seconds, basically the amount of time that should be needed to cover the distance between the signals at the speed that they want to enforce.

If the motorman runs slower, then often times by the time he reaches the yellow signal, it's already gone green because the red signal has been upgraded by the timer to green also. However a good motorman can handle his train in such a way that he/she passes the yellow signal at the correct track speed minus a mile or two and is half way to the red signal before the timer releases it and upgrades it to green.

If you had seen him blow by the yellow and panicked pulling the emergency cord, you would have unnecessarily put the train into emergency and would now be facing jail time.

I'll say it again and I can't make it any clearer, except if you see someone being dragged by a train because they're stuck in a door, you never, ever pull the emergency cord. This is not an option; this is not for you to decide; IT IS THE LAW.

A federal one too, so you’ll be doing federal time.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

I'll say it again and I can't make it any clearer, except if you see someone being dragged by a train because they're stuck in a door, you never, ever pull the emergency cord. This is not an option; this is not for you to decide; IT IS THE LAW.
A federal one too, so you’ll be doing federal time.

Well said, Alan....

Merry Christmas to ya....

OBS gone freight...

 

[the Other Mike]

Actually it is black and white. By law you cannot pull that cord for any of the reasons listed...

If I were on board a train that was running cab car forward and I was sitting in the front and I saw the engineer run a red signal, I wouldn't wait 22 seconds to find the conductor if the engineer wouldn't respond to my banging on his window. I'd pull the cord before running head first into another train and answer questions later.

and you could be mistaken for a terriost and shot on sight by any HS agent on the train.

since we're playing "what if' .................

 

[sky12065]

and you could be mistaken for a terriost and shot on sight by any HS agent on the train.
since we're playing "what if' .................

Or you could be tazed :wacko: ... unless o course you're wearing your "Don't Taze Me Bro" T-shirt!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Actually it is black and white. By law you cannot pull that cord for any of the reasons listed...

If I were on board a train that was running cab car forward and I was sitting in the front and I saw the engineer run a red signal, I wouldn't wait 22 seconds to find the conductor if the engineer wouldn't respond to my banging on his window. I'd pull the cord before running head first into another train and answer questions later.

and you could be mistaken for a terriost and shot on sight by any HS agent on the train.

since we're playing "what if' .................

Scary thought-- we gave Amtrak Special Agent Pat a gun. :blink:

 

[WhoozOn1st]

Scary thought-- we gave Amtrak Special Agent Pat a gun.

May seem odd, ALC, but reading your post is the first time it ever occured to me that Pat might have been armed. I guess just not something that crossed my mind, given the absence of a uniform.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Scary thought-- we gave Amtrak Special Agent Pat a gun.

May seem odd, ALC, but reading your post is the first time it ever occured to me that Pat might have been armed. I guess just not something that crossed my mind, given the absence of a uniform.

I would bet my tickets to NYP that he was armed...