Empire Builder MSP-CUS Question

[scoostraw]

I have never ridden the EB, but I may have the opportunity to board at Wisconsin Dells for Chicago in the hear future.

My question is, what does Amtrak do when 8/28 is extremely late? Do they have protection equipment at MSP and run a stub train from there? Or do they bustitute? And how late does the train have to be for either of these contingencies to kick in?

 

[fairviewroad]

No protection equipment at MSP. If the EB is running late they'll bustitute people boarding from MSP eastward. It's optional

to take the bus. If you'd prefer the train, you can simply wait until the train shows up.** [i.E. the EB is never "turned" in MSP,

it is always run the whole way through to Chicago...unlike out west, where the train is sometimes "turned" in Spokane when

it's running very late]

I'm not sure there's an exact degree of lateness for the bustitutions to kick in...probably depends on the number of connecting

passengers, the prospect for gaining back time, etc. I'm guessing it would have to be at the very least two hours late for

bustitition to occur, but others may have a more precise estimate.

** I should clarify that it's optional if you aren't making a guaranteed connection in Chicago. If you're making a guaranteed

connection, you'll have to take the bus or else you'd lose that "guarantee" and be forced to make alternate arrangements

on your own dime. But if you're not making a connection, of course, then it simply becomes a matter of your own

preference.

 

[scoostraw]

Thanks fairview. That info is most helpful. I will be connecting to either the CL or LSL at Chicago so I will plan accordingly.

 

[crescent2]

Fairviewroad: What do you mean by turned? Thanks for your helpful info!

 

[fairviewroad]

Fairviewroad: What do you mean by turned? Thanks for your helpful info!

"Turned" in this case means the train doesn't run through to its final destination. Generally this is done when the

train is so late that it couldn't make it to its destination in time to "turn around" to become the opposite direction's

departure. This doesn't happen very often because

A) train usually don't run so late as to require this

B) there are few en route stations that are set up to handle this

In the case of the Empire Builder, probably once every few months the train is "turned" in Spokane since by the time

it got to Seattle/Portland, it would be too late to clean and restock the train for anything remotely close to an on-time

departure. By turning the train in Spokane, you reduce the chances for cascading delays.

There aren't many places in the Amtrak system where early turns happen. On a rare occasion the Coast Starlight is turned

in PDX instead of running all the way to Seattle. I'm not aware of other places, not counting for scheduled trackwork.

Trains that are headed to major hubs such as Chicago, LAX, and New York are rarely turned since the trains more

often are scheduled to remain overnight at those hubs anyway, so even a 12 hour delay won't necessarily impact the next

day's departure.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Little Rock, Arkansas and Fort Worth and Longview in Texas are Places where the Texas Eagle is "Turned" when there re problems with really Late Trains due to Derailments, Track Work or Weather Problems on the Eagle Route between CHI and SAS!! (And a few times even St. Louis was where the Eagle was Turned/Terminated/Re-Routed)

Crescent2, in your case, the Crescents #19/#20 are sometimes "Turned "in ATL and NYC with No Alternate Service between ATL and NOL, hence it is a NYP-ATL-NYP Train that is "Turned" in ATL!)

 

[zephyr17]

They have turned the Coast Starlight at Santa Barbara on some occasions, despite LA being its servicing terminal.

However, those have happened on planned trackwork outages (work on the bridge at Montalvo comes to mind), not in emergency or severe delay situations.

 

[fairviewroad]

Yeah, if you include planned trackwork, the list of turning spots grows much longer. But in terms of unplanned en route turning spots,

there are rather few.

 

[crescent2]

Veeerrrry interesting! Thanks guys.

 

[TraneMan]

If you book the ticket and they are connected trains, if the EB is very late, and misses the CL or LSL, they will put you into a hotel and put you on the next rain.

 

[chakk]

The westbound CZ is occasionally turned in Reno, if Donner Pass is closed due to avalanches, or for track maintenance -- as is the case this week for Union Pacific trackwork in the tunnel at the summit of the Donner Pass route.

 

[Notelvis]

I was once on an eastbound Sunset Limited that was turned in El Paso on account of a freight derailment in west Texas.

The corresponding westbound Sunset was turned in San Antonio with through passengers bussed between the two trains.

 

[fairviewroad]

For that matter, the EB has been occasionally turned in places like Havre and Minot in cases of freight derailments. Bit different

than turning a train simply because it's running late, though.

 

[scoostraw]

So #8 was over 5 hours late yesterday. Anybody know if they ran buses from MSP?