Empire Builder Train

[Hanno]

I should probably know the answer to this question but I don't. Looking at the EB for next summer I noticed that what appears to be the same train has two numbers when departure and arrival are the same times. In the case of west bound it is #7 and #27. The rates for bedrooms is even different. What am I missing?

 

[jimhudson]

I should probably know the answer to this question but I don't. Looking at the EB for next summer I noticed that what appears to be the same train has two numbers when departure and arrival are the same times. In the case of west bound it is #7 and #27. The rates for bedrooms is even different. What am I missing?

The Portland section (#27) only has one sleeper, high demand, hence prices are usually High Bucket when the seattle section (#7) might have lower priced rooms, even coach seats might differ depending on the pax load! Often the two trains are shown as having different OTP numbers, it's a longer train than most LD routes but it gets into the stations at the same time! :lol:

 

[Long Train Runnin']

Between Chicago, Illinois and Spokane, Washington trains 7 and 27 run combined, as one train. In Spokane the two trains split up, and train 7 heads to Seattle while train 27 heads to Portland.

 

[Trogdor]

I should probably know the answer to this question but I don't. Looking at the EB for next summer I noticed that what appears to be the same train has two numbers when departure and arrival are the same times. In the case of west bound it is #7 and #27. The rates for bedrooms is even different. What am I missing?

The Portland section (#27) only has one sleeper, high demand, hence prices are usually High Bucket when the seattle section (#7) might have lower priced rooms, even coach seats might differ depending on the pax load! Often the two trains are shown as having different OTP numbers, it's a longer train than most LD routes but it gets into the stations at the same time! :lol:

OTP numbers are generally reported at the end point. Since trains 7 and 27 have different end points, it would make sense that their OTP could vary. That said, I haven't seen significantly different numbers reported for the two. Usually, the two get to their destinations around the same time.

 

[EB_OBS]

Trains #7/8 run between Seattle and Spokane, WA, while trains #27/28 run between Portland, OR and Spokane, WA. The trains meet up or the train splits up at Spokane, WA. They run together from Spokane, WA to Chicago.

I'm no expert but I believe the reason for differing prices is that train #27/28 has only one sleeper year-round while train #7/8 has two sleepers for most of the year, plus the available 4 roomettes in the crew-dorm car.

 

[Hanno]

I should probably know the answer to this question but I don't. Looking at the EB for next summer I noticed that what appears to be the same train has two numbers when departure and arrival are the same times. In the case of west bound it is #7 and #27. The rates for bedrooms is even different. What am I missing?

The Portland section (#27) only has one sleeper, high demand, hence prices are usually High Bucket when the seattle section (#7) might have lower priced rooms, even coach seats might differ depending on the pax load! Often the two trains are shown as having different OTP numbers, it's a longer train than most LD routes but it gets into the stations at the same time! :lol:

Now I understand and I am correct in that I already know that and had filed it away in the recesses of my mind, apparently too far back. So if one were going to GPK it would make no difference and booking the cheaper room would make sense?

Also where does the train split?

 

[Tracktwentynine]

Also where does the train split?

The train going westbound splits at Spokane, Washington.

I noticed something interesting as well. A few days ago, I was looking at a trip I might take in the near-ish future from Chicago to Minneapolis. The coach fare for 7 was $20 cheaper than the coach fare for 27. I understand it has to do with the buckets, but I still think it's odd. I mean in the Midwest, it's all one train. Even though Amtrak might consider it 2*.

*Amtrak might also consider it 3 trains, since sometimes a coach (train 807/808) is tacked onto the rear that just operates CHI <-> MSP.

 

[zephyr17]

Also where does the train split?

The train going westbound splits at Spokane, Washington.

I noticed something interesting as well. A few days ago, I was looking at a trip I might take in the near-ish future from Chicago to Minneapolis. The coach fare for 7 was $20 cheaper than the coach fare for 27. I understand it has to do with the buckets, but I still think it's odd. I mean in the Midwest, it's all one train. Even though Amtrak might consider it 2*.

*Amtrak might also consider it 3 trains, since sometimes a coach (train 807/808) is tacked onto the rear that just operates CHI <-> MSP.

Operationally it is one train, but it is 2 or 3 trains in the inventory. Each train number has its inventory handled separately.

 

[Rail Freak]

If travelling between Chicago & Spokane, either direction, take the cheaper price. The only difference will be the distance to the SSL & Diner!!!

Have Fun

 

[abcnews]

My son said he recently saw a video on YouTube, showing the Empire Builder in Wisconsin - but he looked and there was no Sightseer on this particular day. Is that unusual? Do they have a different type of lounge car as a substitute? He mentioned that the video said it was in Wisconsin - since I asked if he had watched a video of the Seattle section - west of Spokane.

 

[Trogdor]

On occasion, a Sightseer Lounge may be bad-ordered due to equipment defects. If it's bad-ordered in Portland, then the train goes without a lounge because there is usually no replacement available in either Portland or Seattle (Portland does not have spare equipment at all, Seattle may have a couple of cars sitting up there). Sometimes, a shortage of available equipment in Chicago will require the train to be sent out with a diner-lounge instead of a sightseer lounge. This doesn't happen very often, but it has happened a few times.

 

[abcnews]

Thanks! I was wondering how it all worked. Funny, it can happen either way - we took the Auto Train this August - and the standard AT Lounge was in the shop, and we were upgraded to a spare Sightseer Lounge car. Even had tables, which I enjoyed. We spent the entire time there - from 2:30 (pre-boarding wine tasting) to our 9 PM dinner reservation. I also woke up early and went straight to the SSL.

But things happen, I was wondering what recourse they had for a spare lounge.

 

[Edgefan]

My son said he recently saw a video on YouTube, showing the Empire Builder in Wisconsin - but he looked and there was no Sightseer on this particular day. Is that unusual? Do they have a different type of lounge car as a substitute? He mentioned that the video said it was in Wisconsin - since I asked if he had watched a video of the Seattle section - west of Spokane.

I traveled on #27 in October of '09 and to my disapointment the sightseer had been bad ordered and replaced with a CCC. :huh: Was just looking forward to viewing the new to me, rail miles in southern Washington via the sightseer. <_< We lived! :lol: The great group of folks also traveling in the sleeper made up the difference.

 

[abcnews]

And at least they provided a CCC - I would guess that even a CCC is actually rather nice, and OK for scenic viewing, just does not compare to a SSL.

 

[The Chief]

No SSL beats the time in 2004 I rode Builder from Seattle to St. Paul with no dining car. It had been bad ordered in Seattle. Passengers relied partially on fast food meals across the country delivered to stations and distributed on board. I rode in a Roomette and received a voucher afterward. Amtrak tried to re-stock the Portland-based SSL enroute with as much as possible to help the coach passengers, but there weren't many vendors.

Not to be alarmed. That is the only time in my many Builder trips that the Diner was missing.

 

[wisEBfan]

" . . . So if one were going to GPK it would make no difference and booking the cheaper room would make sense? "

While it isn't worth paying a lot more to get into the Portland sleeper, it does have, in my mind, three advantages. One is less foot traffic through the car, since it is the last car on the train (except between MSP and CHI during the heavy travel months). The second is access to the SSL without having to go through the Dining car (the staff there has enough to deal with without people moving through it, and I'd feel badly about getting in their way). And the third is access to the rear window. That can be a interesting view.