Equipment on the Missouri Services

[Rafi]

I may be heading out to LA in May to visit some extended family and thought this may be a good chance for me to cover some track that I have yet to see (St. Louis to Kansas City and Garden City to Flagstaff), and I have the 20,000 AGR points to spare for a business class/roomette booking.

Being almost completely unfamiliar with the Missouri services (aside from gazing at it on the map every so often, thinking, "one day..."), I was curious if anyone could lend some insight as to which cars they're running. Amfleet? Horizon? How's the business class?

If I do it, I'm pretty sure I'll grab a cheap flight from Baltimore to St. Louis the morning of the trip and pick up the Ann Rutledge (dep STL 4:00). I also seem to recall something about the Lincoln Service using the same equipment and can be booked straight through from Chicago to Kansas City. Am I dreaming that?

I rode the Texas Eagle last fall, and I'm not too sure about the value of catching an early morning flight to Chicago just to ride that track again (I don't recall it being incredibly noteworthy except for going under the St. Louis arch).

Another alternative is to fly out to St. Louis early, EARLY in the morning and catch the Kansas City Mule out to Kansas City for a long layover for the Chief, but I'd only do that if Kansas City is worth the day trip. Anyone have any experience? I've always enjoyed STL, though, and if the new intermodal station has the Light Rail connection at that point (I'm looking at late May—Mem Day weekend almost), getting to and from Downtown should be a cinch, so I'm leaning that way.

Anyway, any advise or insight is much appreciated!

Thanks,

Rafi

 

[greatcats]

You will need to change trains in Kansas City, as the train from St. Louis uses single level equipment. I have only ridden that route once ( St. Louis to Kansas City ), 31 years ago, on the through sleeper from New York on the long defunct National Limited enroute to Flagstaff. Others will have to advise you on Kansas City. I did pass through there on the SW Chief a year or so ago and the station itself is beautiful.

 

[rtabern]

The 300 series (except for 322) trains run with usually 1 business/cafe Amfleet car and 3 or 4 Horizon coaches. If you are taking that, I'd recommend the business class... I think it's worth the $14 to get away from the screaming babies and annoying kids. Not that you wont have that in business class, but there's a lot less chance. You also can get a single seat which is what I like since I travel alone a lot.

321/322 is the Texas Eagle. That's actually my prefered train from CHI-STL because you have the Sightseer lounge.

 

[como]

Rafi,

The Missouri service isn't bad. They use Horizon coaches and on weekdays there aren't too many screaming babies, and you get a great view of the Missouri River. You might consider riding from St. Louis to Jefferson City in the morning and spend a few hours touring the state capitol and the area around it. An excellent museum in the capitol building, murals by Thomas Hart Benton, plus some other museums and art galleries. Grab something to eat on High Street, and then walk back to the station for the afternoon train to Kansas City. That would break up the long layover in KC and give you a chance to see a nice part of the state. I can get you information on all those places.

Charlie

 

[IRON MOUNTAIN]

Como,

I have traveled between St. Louis and Kansas City quite a few times. When UP isn't delaying Amtrak it is a delightful trip. The portion along the Missouri river is beautiful. During late January I have seen many bald eagles along the river. Sometimes I like to make a list of all the wildlife I see along the way. Examples are red tail hawks, turkey, deer, coyotes, geese, ducks, ground hogs, well, you get the idea.

Two picturesque little towns that you will pass through are Washngton, MO and Hermann. This was the route of Lewis and Clark. Washington is the home of the Missouri Meerschem (corn cob pipes) factory. Hermann is a major player in Missouri's resurrected wine industry (one of the largest in the world prior to prohibition). The suggestion to get off at Jefferson City is an excellent one. The capitol building has a first class museum in the basement. If you are interested in history and the westward expansion it is very informative. I might add that the Arch in St. Louis has an excellent museum also. The countryside between Jeff City and KC is rolling land with woods and farms.

When you get to KC you will be treated to one of the most beautifully restored train stations in the U.S. It was at one time one of the busiest in the world. If you are a train buff you can spend some delightful time there. As to KC it is a neat town. You can walk from the station to the Weston and Hyatt hotels inside a covered elevated walkway. Both hotels are good places to stay. There are some great restuarants in KC. One of my favorites is the Majestic. It was formally the headquarters for Pendergast (KC's answer to Al Capone). Some say he made it possible for Truman to become a successful politician. Pierreponts is located in the station. It is located in what used to be the Ladies Waiting Room. Very good place to eat. The station itself has in the past had some great exhibits. Museum quality stuff. There are several really great barbeque places around. The Hallmark Center (Hallmark Greeting Cards) is a great downtown shopping mall that is also accessed by the walkway.

When I rode the Mule or Rutledge the business class car was the Amfleet equipment ( I think that is correct if it is the cars that look more like aircraft fuselages made by Budd). Usually the rest of the cars are the big slab sided cars that give you a lot more room between seats and ride well. They remind me of the cars from the 50's. Maybe those are the Horizons.

A word of caution, the trains between STL and KC experience lots of delays.

Have a good trip.

 

[Rafi]

Rtabern, Como, Ironmountain,

Thanks very much for the informative replies. You've sold me, now all I have to do is figure out how much I can do (ie can I swing a stopover in Jefferson City) and if my wife will go along with my plan for her to fly ahead to LA and wait for me to arrive a day or two later.

The Jefferson City stopover sounds directly up my alley, as I'm a glutton for historical, interpretive museums and I have this weird fascination with the history of the westward expansion. Making that stopover happen is another obstacle, unfortunately, as the Mule leaves 15 minutes before (8:30 AM) the first Southwest direct flight from Baltimore arrives (8:45 AM). So I have some research to do. Another airline may be in order to make that connection, or I may be looking at a night's stopover in St. Louis, which frankly isn't going to happen as much as I enjoy the town. I do wish there was more frequency in that corridor... two trains a day makes it hard if you want to do a stopover and see as much daylight as possible. Sounds like the best scenery is during daylight hours when heading westbound, however, so that's a good thing.

I'm also curious to see how the delays affect my connection into Kansas City; I recall seeing a series of articles in the past few months discussing how the delays were so bad Amtrak was bussing customers instead at one point; I assume that ended. I wouldn't mind Amtrak putting me up for the night if I miss the Chief, so no complaints there!

By the way, does anyone know if there are storage lockers in St. Louis, Jefferson City, and/or Kansas City?

Thanks again and I'll be sure to post something here if the moons align and I can pull this one off.

-Rafi

 

[AlanB]

I can't speak for the new station under construction, but no lockers in the current station. And when we were there in 2005 for an OTOL fest, they wouldn't day check our bags either. This despite the fact that one member had called up the station the week before to confirm that they would day check our bags. Personally I think that we just hit a lazy agent who didn't want to be bothered, and the redcap who normally runs the baggage room was out to lunch. No clue about Jeff City, and I don't recall any lockers in KC although it's been about 5 years since I was in KC.

And I highly recommend business class, as you should see one of the Club-Dinette cars on this route.

 

[MrFSS]

Rafi - wouldn't it be nice to ride The Ann Rutledge as she looked in the early 50's? Picture I took from Roosevelt road many years ago. Notice The Empire Builder consist sitting off in the distance to the right of the GM&O train heading south.

 

[wayman]

Rafi - wouldn't it be nice to ride The Ann Rutledge as she looked in the early 50's? Picture I took from Roosevelt road many years ago. Notice The Empire Builder consist sitting off in the distance to the right of the GM&O train heading south.

That's a marvelous photo! The color contrast is so striking--everything else is so muted.

The Empire Builder consist are the higher-roofline (but still single-level?) cars in the distance, beyond the green non-streamliners? What are those cars in the middle-distance?

 

[Rafi]

Rafi - wouldn't it be nice to ride The Ann Rutledge as she looked in the early 50's? Picture I took from Roosevelt road many years ago. Notice The Empire Builder consist sitting off in the distance to the right of the GM&O train heading south.

It's pictures like this that sometimes make me wish I was born about 50 years earlier. Holy moly. Somehow I suspect my experience will vary.

Rafi

 

[Rafi]

I can't speak for the new station under construction, but no lockers in the current station. And when we were there in 2005 for an OTOL fest, they wouldn't day check our bags either. This despite the fact that one member had called up the station the week before to confirm that they would day check our bags. Personally I think that we just hit a lazy agent who didn't want to be bothered, and the redcap who normally runs the baggage room was out to lunch. No clue about Jeff City, and I don't recall any lockers in KC although it's been about 5 years since I was in KC.
And I highly recommend business class, as you should see one of the Club-Dinette cars on this route.

Gotcha. I suspect I'll be playing it by ear to an extent with regard to my bags. Seems to me that both KCY and STL are good candidates for some sort of first class lounge with a baggage room for transferring passengers. Then again, LAX, EMY, and SEA don't have one either. Ugh.

If the trip happens, it'll be a 2 zone roomette award from STL to LAX, so the business class would come into play by default, thankfully!

Rafi

 

[George Harris]

Rafi - wouldn't it be nice to ride The Ann Rutledge as she looked in the early 50's? Picture I took from Roosevelt road many years ago. Notice The Empire Builder consist sitting off in the distance to the right of the GM&O train heading south.

That's a marvelous photo! The color contrast is so striking--everything else is so muted.

The Empire Builder consist are the higher-roofline (but still single-level?) cars in the distance, beyond the green non-streamliners? What are those cars in the middle-distance?

Nope. Look at the train set under the signal bridge just to the rigth of the Ann in the picture. It is the Orange and other color streamliner with a round end observation and at least one dome showing. The high cars are most likely gallery style commuter cars of the CB&Q. At that time, and maybe even later than the picture, the only high level equipment in long distance service was the Santa Fe El Capitan.

 

[AlanB]

If the trip happens, it'll be a 2 zone roomette award from STL to LAX, so the business class would come into play by default, thankfully!

Actually it's not by default anymore, unless AGR has once again changed its policy. It used to be default, but either a year ago or maybe it was two (I'm not sure), they changed things. You are still entitled to a BC seat on a connecting train, when booked into a sleeper on a LD train. However, if you don't specifically request that BC seat, the agent is supposed to book you into a coach seat even though a BC seat may be available.

 

[Rafi]

If the trip happens, it'll be a 2 zone roomette award from STL to LAX, so the business class would come into play by default, thankfully!

Actually it's not by default anymore, unless AGR has once again changed its policy. It used to be default, but either a year ago or maybe it was two (I'm not sure), they changed things. You are still entitled to a BC seat on a connecting train, when booked into a sleeper on a LD train. However, if you don't specifically request that BC seat, the agent is supposed to book you into a coach seat even though a BC seat may be available.

Wow, that's news to me. Then again, I'm always checking and double-checking every minute detail with AGR agents when I book redemptions, whether it be room numbers, connecting times, or business class linked to a sleeper award, so I suppose I've always said, "and you're booking it in business, right?" Good to know, though!

Rafi

 

[MrFSS]

Rafi - wouldn't it be nice to ride The Ann Rutledge as she looked in the early 50's? Picture I took from Roosevelt road many years ago. Notice The Empire Builder consist sitting off in the distance to the right of the GM&O train heading south.

That's a marvelous photo! The color contrast is so striking--everything else is so muted.

The Empire Builder consist are the higher-roofline (but still single-level?) cars in the distance, beyond the green non-streamliners? What are those cars in the middle-distance?

Nope. Look at the train set under the signal bridge just to the rigth of the Ann in the picture. It is the Orange and other color streamliner with a round end observation and at least one dome showing. The high cars are most likely gallery style commuter cars of the CB&Q. At that time, and maybe even later than the picture, the only high level equipment in long distance service was the Santa Fe El Capitan.

George - that's the one I was saying is the EB consist. I have other pictures of it in my collection.

Tom

 

[Palmland]

Rafi

I think I'd try for the morning train out of St.Louis and go straight to KC. You could certainly spend a great afternoon touring the museum in the KC station. Last summer we ate in the restored Harvey House restaurant in the KC station. A real treat (go for the milk shake). Head over to one of the hotels for a cocktail before dinner. Then back to the station to soak up the atmosphere before the arrival of Chief.

To make the morning departure a little easier, why not take a late flight out of Balt the night before? Stay at the Drury Inn at the foot of the Union Station train shed - very short walk. Lot cheaper than the hotel in the station. The Drury is actually the old RR YMCA where the crews used to stay. Also, why not have your wife fly to KC rather than LA. Since you have the roomette, would only cost her the rail fare.

Funny you mention Garden City. We took the Chief from Albuquerque to GC last month for some family business in western KS, then continued on later to Chicago and NY on the Chief/LSL. The city certainly has done a good job of restoring that station. Great ride from Albuquerque - BNSF knows how to run a railroad. You'll note there is no freight from Trinidad to Lamy, NM since BNSF now runs everything via their southern mainline.

 

[DaveKCMO]

DO NOT EXPECT ANY MISSOURI TRAIN TO EVER BE ON TIME. just check amtrakdelays.com to see why. i highly suggest avoiding a stopover on the route if you are planning a westbound connection in KCY (and jeff city isn't the best place to stop, anyway... hermann is much more interesting). take the morning train from STL to KCY and definitely upgrade to business class! there are storage lockers in the basement of KC's union station, but if you are connecting with the chief you can check bags early. "bodies revealed" will be at the station at that time, i think, so that might be a good way to spend your layover (there's also the restaurants, train exhibit, freighthouse/crossroads, and crown center mall).

 

[stlouielady]

DaveyKCMO is absolutely right. I ride STL to KC 3 or 4 times a year, and have NEVER been on time; in some cases, 2 hours late getting back to STL. There are no lockers in the STL station, and I have never seen them in KC. However, they will lock your bags up in the storage room for you if you're a few hours early for a departure and want to go sightseeing without worrying about carrying the bags. I have only taken the Mules and Ann Rutledge, and they don't offer checked bags, so, I can't help you at all with any questions there.

 

[DaveKCMO]

here's a map of kc union station: http://www.unionstation.org/pdf/USKC_map.pdf

 

[como]

Rtabern, Como, Ironmountain,
Thanks very much for the informative replies. You've sold me, now all I have to do is figure out how much I can do (ie can I swing a stopover in Jefferson City) and if my wife will go along with my plan for her to fly ahead to LA and wait for me to arrive a day or two later.

The Jefferson City stopover sounds directly up my alley, as I'm a glutton for historical, interpretive museums and I have this weird fascination with the history of the westward expansion. Making that stopover happen is another obstacle, unfortunately, as the Mule leaves 15 minutes before (8:30 AM) the first Southwest direct flight from Baltimore arrives (8:45 AM). So I have some research to do. Another airline may be in order to make that connection, or I may be looking at a night's stopover in St. Louis, which frankly isn't going to happen as much as I enjoy the town. I do wish there was more frequency in that corridor... two trains a day makes it hard if you want to do a stopover and see as much daylight as possible. Sounds like the best scenery is during daylight hours when heading westbound, however, so that's a good thing.

I'm also curious to see how the delays affect my connection into Kansas City; I recall seeing a series of articles in the past few months discussing how the delays were so bad Amtrak was bussing customers instead at one point; I assume that ended. I wouldn't mind Amtrak putting me up for the night if I miss the Chief, so no complaints there!

By the way, does anyone know if there are storage lockers in St. Louis, Jefferson City, and/or Kansas City?

Thanks again and I'll be sure to post something here if the moons align and I can pull this one off.

-Rafi

Rafi,

I'll send you some information about Jeff City. You may have to spend the night in St. Louis to pull it off. There used to be an early American Airlines flight from BWI to St. Louis but I think it gets in around 8 a.m. which may not work. No lockers in Jefferson City and no checked baggage either.

 

[como]

Oh, the disrespect for Mid Missouri! I agree that Herman is nice, but Jeff City has a subtle charm. And the murals in the capitol are worth the stop. As far as being on time, Dave and others have a good point.. Amtrak service across Missouri typically runs about an hour late, so there is some risk in a stopover in Jeff City

 

[iron mountain]

Rafi,

I know that you can do this yourself but I'm retired and on vacation. So, according to the train status website for the last three weeks the average minutes of late arrival into KCY was 27 minutes. That is for the west bound Mule which leaves Kirkwood 8:57AM. Of course you would be leaving from St. Louis which would be earlier. It arrives in KCY at 2:10PM. The longest delay reported for the last three weeks was 48 minutes. Over the past few years when I have ridden the Mule it was actually early on several occasions. But when you factor in a stopover in Jeff City or Hermann you then have to continue on the Ann Rutledge. It is scheduled to arrive in KCY at 9:40PM. The SWC leaves KCY at 10:55PM. Eventhough the average minutes late for the Ann doesn't look too bad, 35 minutes, the longest was 110 minutes. In my opinion too risky to make your SWC connection.

If you were to opt for an overnight in Jeff City, the Capitol Hotel is the best hotel and is not too far from the station. They will pick you up and take you back. Madison's is a good place to eat and there is a Greek pizza place accross from the capitol building that is pretty good too. Both of these places are easy walks. With all due respect to DaveKCMO I do not think that Jeff City would be a bad layover at all as long as you can make your connection in KCY. And that is a roll of the dice.

As for Hermann, a tour of the Stone Hill Winery is very interesting. If you are a dry red wine fan be sure to try some Norton. It is excellent. For a dry white the Chardonnel is very good. I present wine at a Missouri winery so I have had lost of experience with these wonderful fruits of the vine. Hermann has some very nice B&B's. Might be something you would want to plan for another time with your bride.

And finally, St. Louis is a great city. If schedule permits spend a day admiring the Arch, and the excellent westward expansion museum under the arch. Union Station, at least the part that was preserved is woth seeing. A visit to the historic Soulard neighborhood is a great place. That is where the St. Louis Mardi Gras takes place. It is second only to New Orleans in size. LaClede's Landing is another interesting area in downtown. It has a lot of good watering holes and eateries too.

Have a good one.

 

[winnie6052]

I have ridden the STL - KCY trip over a dozen times this past year. Benfits of business class is that you will probably have the whole section to your self but the big con is unless you have/use a music headset the noise of the constant engine horn blasting can get old. I have tried business class once and found the coach section alot less noisy. You can always move around if you are near someone that is being loud.

The coach section has never been crowded. Only weekends are a little crowded.

There are electrical outlets next to all seats so a laptop and a movie can help with the constant delays west of Jefferson City due to freight traffic. The trip west has fewer delays for some reason. Allow for a minimum 1 hour delay. I was eastbound to STL once last summer and we were over 2 hours late. Two movies and the time went by quickly.

Sitting on the right side gives you an excellent view of the Missouri river from Washington, Mo to Jefferson City.

The station in KC is great. Big and beautiful. There are lockers downstairs. You will have to ask directions to find them.

You can easilsy walk using the covered walkway to Crown Center. Shops and eating places galore.

 

[clwmdm]

Interesting post about Missouri Services!

I live only a few minutes from the Lee's Summit AMTRAK station and ride the Mule to KC on weekends a few times a year. My recent trip was a few weeks ago (Feb) and they were running two Superliners on the Mule.

This UP route that AMTRAK uses has known issues - plenty of delays. I hope that MO can work something out in the state budget to lengthen some sidings to fix the delays.

I've been to most union stations, and KC is my favorite in terms of originality. Fantastic station - well restored, with plenty to see and do. New 'Bodies Revealed' exhibit opens this week. They have a new bridge that crosses the tracks to the freighthouse area - great view's of train operations and an easy walk to Lida's restaurant.

Ditto on Pierpont's restaurant and a few weekends ago enjoyed Harvey House. Skywalk to Crown Center - well, two world class hotels and great shopping.

And if you are a museum buff, directly across KC Union Station is the WWI Liberty Memorial, with the new National WWI Museum. Visited it this past November and it is every bit as good as what you would see at the Smithsonian in DC (I am an ex-DC resident). WORLD-CLASS musuem.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=45...h&plindex=0

In summary, you could easily hop off Amtrak at KC Union Station and spend a full day. Probably TWO full days!

 

[Larry H.]

Rafi - wouldn't it be nice to ride The Ann Rutledge as she looked in the early 50's? Picture I took from Roosevelt road many years ago. Notice The Empire Builder consist sitting off in the distance to the right of the GM&O train heading south.

That brings back fond memories, I have a photo hanging here in the living room of myself and my grandfather sitting in that fan tail parlor car. Rode it often, it had a great attendant who's name I have long forgotten, but definitely of the old school.

I wonder about that distant dome liner though, was that the colors of the Empire Builder or is it some other dome liner? I recall being on the Empire Builder the last month of service and I think it was Green..