Fare Buckets - and when do they increase/decrease?

[vap0rtranz]

As a comparison on bedrooms being way too expensive, I checked how much lie-flat seats cost for a flight.

United's website say that for 2 people to fly wintery January, flexible days, no holidays, from Newark to LA, roundtrip, on one of United's Dreamliners costs over $3,400.

Google says I might get the price down to $2,700 by shopping around.

The thing is ... United has multiple flights every day just on the Newark-LAX leg. So either the front of the Dreamliner is empty or The Average Jane/Joe can actually afford these prices.

(And yes, I know corporate fliers do fill these seats too; I used to be one of them but whenever I got bumped into 1st/Biz on a work flight, I was impressed by how many private citizens filled those $$$ seats.)

 

[zephyr17]

As a comparison on bedrooms being way too expensive, I checked how much lie-flat seats cost for a flight.

United's website say that for 2 people to fly wintery January, flexible days, no holidays, from Newark to LA, roundtrip, on one of United's Dreamliners costs over $3,400.

Google says I might get the price down to $2,700 by shopping around.

The thing is ... United has multiple flights every day just on the Newark-LAX leg. So either the front of the Dreamliner is empty or The Average Jane/Joe can actually afford these prices.

(And yes, I know corporate fliers do fill these seats too; I used to be one of them but whenever I got bumped into 1st/Biz on a work flight, I was impressed by how many private citizens filled those $$$ seats.)

Well, a lot of those seats are going to be elite upgrades. Although according to the whiny folks on Flyertalk, those apparently are becoming less frequent because the airlines are trying to "monetize", i.e sell, First Class seats instead of giving them away to frequent flyers. There is much gnashing of teeth and rending of clothes on the subject there.

 

[Winecliff Station]

Well, a lot of those seats are going to be elite upgrades. Although according to the whiny folks on Flyertalk, those apparently are becoming less frequent because the airlines are trying to "monetize", i.e sell, First Class seats instead of giving them away to frequently flyers. There is much gnashing of teeth and rending of clothes on the subject there.

Several Star Alliance airlines have started using the bidding system for upgrades, a last ditch effort to avoid granting free upgrades to those who’ve earned the privilege. Lufthansa and Aegean most recently in my experience. I’m actually surprised Amtrak came up with the idea beforehand, though cruise lines have been offering cabin upgrade bidding for several years now. Although I don’t believe Amtrak has extended bidding to include sleepers.

 

[zephyr17]

Several Star Alliance airlines have started using the bidding system for upgrades, a last ditch effort to avoid granting free upgrades to those who’ve earned the privilege. Lufthansa and Aegean most recently in my experience. I’m actually surprised Amtrak came up with the idea beforehand, though cruise lines have been offering cabin upgrade bidding for several years now. Although I don’t believe Amtrak has extended bidding to include sleepers.

BidUp can be used for sleepers.

 

[Winecliff Station]

BidUp can be used for sleepers.

Good to know….first few times I tried when it came out it wasn’t available, but that might have been more about the particular trip I was taking.

 

[Jdub]

I got some BidUp offers (roomette to bedroom) and suggested starting price of around $250 + suggestion that the starting price was unlikely to succeed..Thought it over--original roomette cost was around $600--trip was overnight and about 15 hours long..Just couldn't make much sense of the additional expense. By observation, at least one bedroom on my car was vacant...upgrade might have been worth $100-$150..But it's not a true auction, Just a gimmick, IMHO.

 

[Jay Aitchsee]

BidUp can be used for sleepers.

So, on a recent trip (June 2023) on the Empire Builder from Vancouver to Chicago, I was invited to bid to upgrade our Roomette to a Bedroom. We (2 seniors) had paid $1133 for the Roomette, or high mid bucket. The offer was a minimum bid of $295 with a recommended bid of $800+. I chose to bid $305 and it was accepted, making the total $1438, which I reckon is near low bucket for a Bedroom, an apparent good deal. However, I thought both fares were too high and, after trying the Bedroom, I personally don't think it's worth the premium over a Roomette, though my wife really liked not having to go down the passageway at night in her nightie to use the restroom.

To make this post meaningful to the thread, I should say that I booked this trip a little more than 5 months in advance. I was luckier on the outbound trip and snagged a Roomette for two seniors from Chi to Van for $850, which is near low bucket. I booked the outbound trip first and about a week later, when I was ready to book the return trip, the low fare no longer existed and the mid bucket fare I got was only available on one day in my desired week.

As others have said, it appears the best window for longer range planning is 5 to 6 months out, starting at 6 months. Be mindful that pricing does vary by day of the week, though I'm not sure it is consistent, and it pays to be flexible. Select a target week rather than day and check each day within that week for the best price. My advice is; if you see a price below mid bucket, grab it.

 

[LongHauler]

I don't doubt the rule that 5 to 6 months out is the usual target.

Some months back, however, I had a (admittedly rare) known-a-year-in-advance, date-specific trip to book for early 2024 (I had at least a choice of 2 dates on the return). The trip is for me, spouse and child on the entire Sunset/Eagle joint run. I stalked it in the weeks before it would become available and saw that it was opening low. When it opened up 11 months out, I managed to book a second-lowest-bucket family bedroom eastbound and 2 roomettes at low-bucket westbound.

With a follow-up call, we got our roomettes to be across from each other.

There's a lot in that scenario that might not be replicable, of course, but some due diligence sometimes can pay-off.

 

[zephyr17]

I don't doubt the rule that 5 to 6 months out is the usual target.

Some months back, however, I had a (admittedly rare) known-a-year-in-advance, date-specific trip to book for early 2024 (I had at least a choice of 2 dates on the return). The trip is for me, spouse and child on the entire Sunset/Eagle joint run. I stalked it in the weeks before it would become available and saw that it was opening low. When it opened up 11 months out, I managed to book a second-lowest-bucket family bedroom eastbound and 2 roomettes at low-bucket westbound.

With a follow-up call, we got our roomettes to be across from each other.

There's a lot in that scenario that might not be replicable, of course, but some due diligence sometimes can pay-off.

It never hurts to check early. I usually do when the general period of a planned trip firms up. But if it is high, I don't bother to start rechecking regularly until about the 6 month mark. If it is low, I'd grab it like you did. The last several years, they weren't low then for me.

I wouldn't go so far as looking for a bucket drop (inventory reallocation) in the 4-6 month period in advance of departure a "rule". They don't always happen in that timeframe and can happen at other times (particularly later if sales lag). Unscientific experience makes it look that way and it is a good guideline, but there is no guarantee.

 

[Jay Aitchsee]

in the weeks before it would become available and saw that it was opening low. When it opened up 11 months out, I managed to book a second-lowest-bucket family bedroom eastbound and 2 roomettes at low-bucket westbound.

Yes, I see some are now opening at something less than top bucket. For example, the EB to PDX roomette is opening today at $1098, which is around mid-high bucket, I'd say.
Maybe this portends a return to "normal" pricing. It wasn't too long ago, before the pandemic, that high bucket for this trip was $1076.
Two roomettes in lieu of a bedroom is interesting. Something I've thought about before. At today's price, two roomettes appears to be cheaper than one bedroom. However, for solo occupancy, it seems they have to be booked separately, by different individuals. The website wouldn't allow me to book more than one roomette unless I indicated the number of travelers was greater than two. Not a big deal, just a little more hassle.

 

[niemi24s]

It wasn't too long ago, before the pandemic, that high bucket for this trip was $1076.

As you may already know, a high bucket Roomette for one adult CHI to/from PDX is currently $1502 - a mere $426 or 40% more than pre-pandemic levels.

 

[Stremba]

Yes, I see some are now opening at something less than top bucket. For example, the EB to PDX roomette is opening today at $1098, which is around mid-high bucket, I'd say.
Maybe this portends a return to "normal" pricing. It wasn't too long ago, before the pandemic, that high bucket for this trip was $1076.
Two roomettes in lieu of a bedroom is interesting. Something I've thought about before. At today's price, two roomettes appears to be cheaper than one bedroom. However, for solo occupancy, it seems they have to be booked separately, by different individuals. The website wouldn't allow me to book more than one roomette unless I indicated the number of travelers was greater than two. Not a big deal, just a little more hassle.

Just so you know, on the app, if you book a roomette two adults there is a selection labeled “room count”. It defaults to 1, but tapping the plus sign next to the 1 increases the room count to 2 and it will allow you to book two roomettes

 

[trimetbusfan]

Just so you know, on the app, if you book a roomette two adults there is a selection labeled “room count”. It defaults to 1, but tapping the plus sign next to the 1 increases the room count to 2 and it will allow you to book two roomettes

Yes, normally it does, but I noticed half the time it glitches out. A call should be able to get around that.

 

[Jay Aitchsee]

Just so you know, on the app, if you book a roomette two adults there is a selection labeled “room count”. It defaults to 1, but tapping the plus sign next to the 1 increases the room count to 2 and it will allow you to book two roomettes

Yes, I tried that, but it wouldn't increase the count unless I had indicated 3 or more travelers. And, it kind of makes sense. In any event, I think calling, as trimetbusfan noted above, would likely be done, anyway, to secure two roomettes adjacent to or across from one another.

Interestingly, a spot check today indicates fares of $1098 for a roomette for one CHI/PDX beginning January 2024 into June 2024. As Niemi24s points out, that is $426 less than current high bucket. Or, looked at another way, close to pre-pandemic high bucket. Maybe we're seeing new pricing for 2024?

 

[zephyr17]

Interestingly, a spot check today indicates fares of $1098 for a roomette for one CHI/PDX beginning January 2024 into June 2024. As Niemi24s points out, that is $426 less than current high bucket. Or, looked at another way, close to pre-pandemic high bucket. Maybe we're seeing new pricing for 2024?

$1098 CHI-PDX was documented by @niemi24s as the 5th fare from the lowest in Amtrak's new 8 bucket method. The two mid buckets are $831 and $951 (imputed). So they are the fares Amtrak came up with in the first half of 2023. I am sure 2024 will bring another round. If it does, the fare booked will be honored, in case of a 2024 increase.

 

[Jay Aitchsee]

Interestingly, a spot check today indicates fares of $1098 for a roomette for one CHI/PDX beginning January 2024 into June 2024. As Niemi24s points out, that is $426 less than current high bucket. Or, looked at another way, close to pre-pandemic high bucket. Maybe we're seeing new pricing for 2024?

$1098 CHI-PDX was documented by @niemi24s as the 5th fare from the lowest in Amtrak's new 8 bucket method. The two mid buckets are $831 and $951 (imputed). So they are the fares Amtrak came up with in the first half of 2023. I am sure 2024 will bring another round. If it does, the fare booked will be honored, in case of a 2024 increase.

Right! A little wishful thinking on my part that we might see $1098 become high bucket for 2024

 

[joelkfla]

Just so you know, on the app, if you book a roomette two adults there is a selection labeled “room count”. It defaults to 1, but tapping the plus sign next to the 1 increases the room count to 2 and it will allow you to book two roomettes

I tried it on the EB after reading the post. The spinner arrows on the room count are greyed out for some reason, with 2 Adults selected. However, it did work when I tried the same on the SWC.

I don't know what's special about the EB that it shouldn't be allowed when it is allowed on another train of similar length.

 

[zephyr17]

I tried it on the EB after reading the post. The spinner arrows on the room count are greyed out for some reason, with 2 Adults selected. However, it did work when I tried the same on the SWC.

I don't know what's special about the EB that it shouldn't be allowed when it is allowed on another train of similar length.

Worked fine for me on the app on 8, EVR-CHI, 9/8 departure. Started with 2 adults, selected Private Rooms, then upped the Roomette count to 2. Could continue on to the booking. screen, at which point I bailed.

There is nothing special about the Builder. Possibly you got a glitch, or there was only 1 roomette left on that Builder and the website did not handle it gracefully in the fine tradition of Amtrak IT.

 

[Stremba]

Also might be that there is only one room let in the fare bucket and the system can’t handle two rooms with two different fares

 

[zephyr17]

Also might be that there is only one room let in the fare bucket and the system can’t handle two rooms with two different fares

I've actually done that to check bucket inventory (you can enter up to 8 adults in 8 rooms). It kicks the whole group into the higher bucket if the open inventory in the lower bucket is exceeded. Although the last time I did that was a few months ago and there is always the chance they broke it in the meantime.

 

[oregon pioneer]

Two years ago, I bought a round-trip ticket to Boston at low-bucket (or near low-bucket) in Jan/Feb for 70,610 points. This year, for a trip at the same time of year, they want 65,782 points one way.

It's not that the trains are full. I looked at several days, all showing trains 0-10% full, and the ;points price was the same for all.

What gives? Did prices nearly double in the last two years, or is this yield management at work? I see that I made the reservation in late September last time. Maybe I should just hold off for a while... trains aren't booking up yet for midwinter (and I can see why, at prices like that).

edit: reading several posts above, I think I will wait till 4 months and 29 days from departure, and see if it has gone down. Today is about 5 months and 20 days from my desired departure. I will report back.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Two years ago, I bought a round-trip ticket to Boston at low-bucket (or near low-bucket) in Jan/Feb for 70,610 points. This year, for a trip at the same time of year, they want 65,782 points one way.

It's not that the trains are full. I looked at several days, all showing trains 0-10% full, and the ;points price was the same for all.

What gives? Did prices nearly double in the last two years, or is this yield management at work? I see that I made the reservation in late September last time. Maybe I should just hold off for a while... trains aren't booking up yet for midwinter (and I can see why, at prices like that).

edit: reading several posts above, I think I will wait till 4 months and 29 days from departure, and see if it has gone down. Today is about 5 months and 20 days from my desired departure. I will report back.

Fare buckets have gone up on the CZ, builder, and starlight over the last year. This combined with more aggressive ‘yield management’ does make it harder to find a low bucket. Also, I try to check fares pretty regularly and notice that the CZ especially is hard to find low bucket on.

However, low buckets are out there but takes some effort to find.

 

[zephyr17]

Two years ago, I bought a round-trip ticket to Boston at low-bucket (or near low-bucket) in Jan/Feb for 70,610 points. This year, for a trip at the same time of year, they want 65,782 points one way.

It's not that the trains are full. I looked at several days, all showing trains 0-10% full, and the ;points price was the same for all.

What gives? Did prices nearly double in the last two years, or is this yield management at work? I see that I made the reservation in late September last time. Maybe I should just hold off for a while... trains aren't booking up yet for midwinter (and I can see why, at prices like that).

edit: reading several posts above, I think I will wait till 4 months and 29 days from departure, and see if it has gone down. Today is about 5 months and 20 days from my desired departure. I will report back.

It is now at the very outer edge of the 4-6 month envelope where it seems yield management inventory reallocation seems likely.

I'd check inventory now by trying a dummy reservation for 8 rooms. If 8 are available, chances that they'll reallocate some inventory to lower buckets in the next couple months are probably pretty good.

The % full on the website is immaterial for sleepers. It reflects coach capacity and sales.

As you suggest, this is yield management at work. Low early prices were a thing of the past even before the current sleeper capacity shortage and Amtrak got so aggressive in their yield management. Now they tend to set all inventory at higher buckets when it opens for sale. I imagine that they figure people who feel they must buy super early are price insensitive and they're probably right in that. They appear to revisit and possibly readjust as sales develop.

I am not sure whether or not differences in points are fully refunded if lower fares are found as cash fares are.

Check inventory and monitor fares regularly is the only advice I have.

 

[Sidney]

Fare buckets have gone up on the CZ, builder, and starlight over the last year. This combined with more aggressive ‘yield management’ does make it harder to find a low bucket. Also, I try to check fares pretty regularly and notice that the CZ especially is hard to find low bucket on.

However, low buckets are out there but takes some effort to find.

Up until a few years ago I would take circle trips in roomettes using low bucket prices. Unfortunately it is almost impossible these days. I usually did the Texas Eagle/Sunset or the SW Chief,Coast Starlight and Empire Builder. I would do Coach to or from my home base if Harrisburg Pa. The Starlight and Builder rarely offer low bucket prices anymore. I will not pay over $1000 for a 48 hour ride on the Builder or $700 for a one overnight on the Starlight.

Best deal for low bucket fares are on the Texas Eagle from Chicago to LA and reverse. Those $623 fares come up more often than any other and that is Amtrak’s longest ride.

 

[Steve4031]

I just scored a $749 Roomette on #6 EMY-CHI
I just fooling around looking and I saw the fare and booked it. I see that the Zephyr is running on a later schedule which works for me. I've ridden many times so delays mean daylight scenery in different areas. I am in the 532 sleeper. With the low fares, I suspect people are jumping ship at the last minute. IIRC the base sleeper is 31, then 32 and 33. Hopefully, there are at least two sleepers.