Fare Buckets - and when do they increase/decrease?

[Bob Dylan]

What were the

What was the'Loophole trip'?

You could Start and End your trip on an AGR Reward Ticket in the same Zone no matter how far you traveled as long as it was not more than 2 Zones and there was no layovers.

For Example: Austin to LA to Galesburg to Springfield to Austin(4 LD Trains and 1 Thruway Van)and it only counted as a 2 Zone Trip( 20,000 Points for Roomettes for 1 or 2) since you changed from Zone 2 to 3 @ El Paso and back to Zone 1 @ Albuqurque.

Now, with AGR Rewards based on Fares, it would be around 80-125,000 Points depending on the Buckets and Number of passengers.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Over the past several months I have seen and recorded only eight different Coach fares: $470, 380, 306, 247, 200, (161) (130) and (105) with the last three billed as Saver fares, all for CHI-SEA. Within the past few weeks, however, I've not seen either the $105 Saver fare offered for CHI-SEA (or the $106 Saver fare offered for CHI-PDX).

View attachment 33407

Following up, I finally found a $106 fare on train 28 PDX-CHI, for 10/1/2023. So it definitely still exists...

 

[niemi24s]

Thanks for those two confirmations.

I also pinned down the two lower adjacent AT bedroom estimates. All these have been added to the chart, but the updated chart won't be posted until a few more estimates are pinned down. No need to clutter up the thread when there are 33 other estimates yet to be confirmed or pinned down.

Waiting with baited breath for the next train(s) to get three additional sleeper buckets - or maybe the scrapping of the eight bucket idea and going back to five or even going up to more than 8 buckets! Aaaarrrgghh!!!!!

 

[Sidney]

You could Start and End your trip on an AGR Reward Ticket in the same Zone no matter how far you traveled as long as it was not more than 2 Zones and there was no layovers.

For Example: Austin to LA to Galesburg to Springfield to Austin(4 LD Trains and 1 Thruway Van)and it only counted as a 2 Zone Trip( 20,000 Points for Roomettes for 1 or 2) since you changed from Zone 2 to 3 @ El Paso and back to Zone 1 @ Albuqurque.

Now, with AGR Rewards based on Fares, it would be around 80-125,000 Points depending on the Buckets and Number of passengers.

Thought of another one. Columbus WI to LA and return. Three zones,and you went on the Builder,Starlight, Southwest Chief with an overnight in Chicago and back to Columbus. Think you were allowed an overnight.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Thought of another one. Columbus WI to LA and return. Three zones,and you went on the Builder,Starlight, Southwest Chief with an overnight in Chicago and back to Columbus. Think you were allowed an overnight.

The Slidell Loophole was like that when Amtrak allowed Layovers of Less than 24 Hours before changing Trains.

You spen the night in NOL and either started or ended your trip in Slidell.

You could do 3 Zone trip for the Points required for a 2 Zone Trip!

 

[Steve4031]

A few days ago I posted getting a 740 dollar roomette for emy to Chicago. I jumped on this fare. Then I flew out to San Francisco for what I thought would be a 1 night hotel stay and then my trip back to Chicago. For some reason I was perusing my reservation when I realized it was for a Thursday departure. I immediately hit the modify trip option dreading the idea of a 1300 fare or a sell out. Instead I got the low bucket 602 and 140 dollars refunded to my credit card.

 

[niemi24s]

You fell in the s**t house and came out smelling like a rose!

 

[dlagrua]

Ready to start booking our 2024 long-distance trips and checking fares. Is there any easy way to discover what level the prices are at? Would like to know if we are paying high medium or low bucket fares. OO
UPDATE: Found the latest fare bucket chart prepared by Niemi and it is helpful but fares seem to be rising so fast that even this months fare chart is outdated. Sleeper prices are getting extremely expensive but passengers must be paying them. Fares now opening near high bucket.

 

[niemi24s]

Certainly: Long Distance Train Coach & Sleeper Fares (Buckets)

 

[Tod]

Certainly: Long Distance Train Coach & Sleeper Fares (Buckets)

@niemei24s ... What's the best thread on here to monitor to see your latest posting of your Fare Bucket research?

 

[pennyk]

@niemei24s ... What's the best thread on here to monitor to see your latest posting of your Fare Bucket research?

the link that you quoted will usually have the latest fare buckets

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...eeper-fares-buckets.77062/page-7#post-1015821

 

[oregon pioneer]

Ready to start booking our 2024 long-distance trips and checking fares. Is there any easy way to discover what level the prices are at? Would like to know if we are paying high medium or low bucket fares. OO
UPDATE: Found the latest fare bucket chart prepared by Niemi and it is helpful but fares seem to be rising so fast that even this months fare chart is outdated. Sleeper prices are getting extremely expensive but passengers must be paying them. Fares now opening near high bucket.

I am seeing the same thing, even in Jan/Feb when fewer people are traveling! Not sure if it is ever possible to get low-bucket on either of the trains I want to travel.

And amtrak dot com seems to be set so I can only check about 10 dates each day, then it stops giving me results (returns "an unknown error" or a "null" result).

 

[PatchesC]

I am seeing the same thing, even in Jan/Feb when fewer people are traveling! Not sure if it is ever possible to get low-bucket on either of the trains I want to travel.

And amtrak dot com seems to be set so I can only check about 10 dates each day, then it stops giving me results (returns "an unknown error" or a "null" result).

I'm seeing July 2024 dates being priced the same as dates for this month on our route. Completely insane

 

[Sidney]

I'm seeing July 2024 dates being priced the same as dates for this month on our route. Completely insane

Except for an occasional EB two days out when they couldn’t sell it at what they wanted,I am rarely finding any low bucket or second to lowest buckets on any train on any day. Up until a couple of weeks ago I would find several low buckets on roomettes on the Eagle from LA to Chicago for $623. Now the lowest I can find is $899.

I will not pay $1000 or more on the EB and CZ from Chicago to Seattle/Portland or Sacramento and Emeryville for a roomette. Obviously others will.

 

[joelkfla]

Except for an occasional EB two days out when they couldn’t sell it at what they wanted,I am rarely finding any low bucket or second to lowest buckets on any train on any day. Up until a couple of weeks ago I would find several low buckets on roomettes on the Eagle from LA to Chicago for $623. Now the lowest I can find is $899.

I will not pay $1000 or more on the EB and CZ from Chicago to Seattle/Portland or Sacramento and Emeryville for a roomette. Obviously others will.

Maybe it's because the time when they've been reducing them, 3-4 months out, is now running into the holiday period.

 

[fengshui]

I'm seeing July 2024 dates being priced the same as dates for this month on our route. Completely insane

The Amtrak pricing model is completely different now compared to pre-COVID. They used to open at low bucket, they slowly go from low prices to higher as rooms filled. That left a lot of money on the table for early-bookers who would pay more. Now they start at high bucket and stay there for 6+ months to try to extract as much money from people who book early and will pay or for people who want the best selection of rooms. If, after that 6+ months, they still have lots of open rooms, they will start lowering prices to generate business and bring in the more price-sensitive customers. It's very much like the airlines, where the lowest prices are usually 3-8 weeks before the flight, not months and months out. Amtrak makes more money with this model, and honestly should have been doing it for decades, as the airlines really developed it in the 80s, and there was nothing stopping Amtrak from doing likewise other than their sub-standard IT and reservations systems.

 

[oregon pioneer]

The Amtrak pricing model is completely different now compared to pre-COVID. They used to open at low bucket, they slowly go from low prices to higher as rooms filled. That left a lot of money on the table for early-bookers who would pay more. Now they start at high bucket and stay there for 6+ months to try to extract as much money from people who book early and will pay or for people who want the best selection of rooms. If, after that 6+ months, they still have lots of open rooms, they will start lowering prices to generate business and bring in the more price-sensitive customers. It's very much like the airlines, where the lowest prices are usually 3-8 weeks before the flight, not months and months out. Amtrak makes more money with this model, and honestly should have been doing it for decades, as the airlines really developed it in the 80s, and there was nothing stopping Amtrak from doing likewise other than their sub-standard IT and reservations systems.

I'm watching fares for mid January eastbound, and mid February westbound on the EB/LSL. Still seeing fares at or near high-bucket in mid February. They have come down some (just in the last few days) for the days I am looking at in January, but still mid-bucket. Still five months out from the eastbound trip, so I am just going to watch and wait at this point.

I hate not being able to plan very far in advance. I used to be one of the first to book, 11 months out, at low bucket. It was nice to be able to "lock-in" the dates with my family for a visit.

 

[oregon pioneer]

I've been watching a series of four less-expensive days in January for my eastbound trip (any later and you get into MLK weekend, any earlier and you are affected by late New Year's holiday returns). A couple weeks ago, all four days dropped by 19,000 points. Then last week, they all went up by 12,000 points. Yesterday, they all dropped 4,000 points. Fares for all four days are moving in unison. I'm thinking this is just the system testing purchasers' pain point, the trains are not yet booking up, so I am still waiting for one of those days to break out of the pattern before I make a move. Still more than four months out...

 

[Railspike]

For those interested in the EB from CHI-SEA just grabbed a bedroom (2 seniors) for $1395 on 10-13-23. Still available on 10-18-23. Cheapest I've seen in some time.

 

[user 29618]

If they did it the same as airlines, you could see a range of dates and prices.
As it is, people see one (often outrageous) price and decide train travel is not for them.
I suspect that is why on most trips I've taken, there have been many empty rooms.

 

[dlagrua]

Here is a strange one. Oct 29 PHL to MET midday. NER $68 coach fare $116 business class. The Acela $72 business class so we booked that. I just don't understand Amtrak's fare system.

 

[niemi24s]

For those interested in the EB from CHI-SEA just grabbed a bedroom (2 seniors) for $1395 on 10-13-23. Still available on 10-18-23. Cheapest I've seen in some time.

That just shows to go you it pays to sniff around. The only cheaper Bedroom fare for two seniors is $1233 and the very highest is <gulp> $3620!!!!

Good work!

FWIW, Roomettes are currently at low bucket of $588 for one adult on 18 Oct. Yay!

 

[fdaley]

Yesterday (Tuesday 9/19) we went from Freeport, Maine, to Boston on the Downeaster, and then to Albany on 449, a trip we had booked several weeks in advance. The weather in Maine was awful on Monday, with up to four inches of rain predicted in some areas Monday night. So sometime late Monday I got to wondering whether we'd need a Plan B in case we encountered flooded or washed-out roads, as we have a couple of other times this summer, and needed to take a later Downeaster, missing the connection to 449.

One option would be an Acela to New York and a corridor train to Albany, which actually because of higher speeds does not take that much longer than 449 from Boston to Albany, even though the mileage is nearly double.

To my surprise, I found several afternoon Acela departures from BOS to NYP at the $58 fare bucket, which normally is only available only if one books weeks in advance. There also were a couple of NER trains for $31(?), another discounted fare that usually disappears in the last couple of weeks before departure. Similar fares also were available for a number of the next day's departures. Based on my experiences of the past few years, I hadn't expected to find anything available for less than $100 to $150 except perhaps for very early-morning or late-night departures with poor/nonexistent connections.

Has anyone else noticed Amtrak adjusting its yield-management strategy to allow more low-bucket fares for last-minute bookings in the Northeast?

 

[daybeers]

Yes, I have. They now offer lowest-bucket Saver fares even day-of. Same with the night owl fares that were recently extended to NEC North.

 

[striker71]

When I was first interested in traveling I checked the prices for coach from Houston to Amsterdam NY. I started with about 6 months out, $128 one way senior fare. When I finally pulled the plug it was $166. I bought my ticket and had my first trip. I'm thinking about doing it again but now the price is $399. And it's 6 months lead time, instead of Amsterdam I'm pricing for Utica NY. That's too much for me.