freight derailment on Crescent route

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Bill Haithcoat

Engineer
Honored Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2002
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4,031
Location
atlanta, georgia
This Tuesday morning was perfect. I rode the Crescent from ATL to Birmingham. Thus joining some OTOL and AU members, like Alan B, Alan's mother, Kevin Korrell, Kevin's son, and others.They were taking a very long trip to the west coast and back.

Some of the people I met for the first time. And Alan's mother is delightful.

In fact the whole trip was delightful, going over. And coming back until Anniston, Ala. We were early at every arrival and on time at every departure.

So we stopped at Anniston, then stopped again. And then stayed stopped.. Turns out a freight had derailed up the road somewhere between Anniston and Atlanta.It took awhile to find out what to do with us. In the meantime I did get my dining car first class meal. They did bus those traveling to Atlanta to Atlanta. I do not know what they did with the equipment and the people going further.

The bus got to Atlanta about 10:10 p.m. for a train due at 7.52. p.m.

The ATL station was completely empty of people so I do not know if they bussed people from there or sent everybody away or what. Mayby someone can tell us. At the time I just wanted to get home, did not feel like bothering busy people with questions since I was already safe and sound at my destination. But now I wonder and wish I had asked.

It could have been a lot worse, it could have been us that derailed.
 
Thanks for the report, but you forgot to tell us what AlanB was wearing in the dining car and what he ate for breakfast!!

What were you wearing and what did you eat for dinner coming back to ATL?
 
While it was an ordeal getting to ATL, you scraped by better than most, Bill. While you were being bussed out, all of the northbound passengers in Atlanta were boarding busses of their own. An express bus ran ATL-WAS and other busses ran to the major intermediate stations.

The train itself still had folks on it after your bus left and my understanding is that it actually reversed back to Birmingham and detoured into ATL via CSX's route through Talladega, although I don't know what specific route it took. It was scheduled to terminate in Atlanta shortly and deadhead back to NOL, but they made the decision early this morning to just let it run through to NYP about 15 hours late rather than throw everyone onto busses.

Rafi
 
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Rafi said:
While it was an ordeal getting to ATL, you scraped by better than most, Bill. While you were being bussed out, all of the northbound passengers in Atlanta were boarding busses of their own. An express bus ran ATL-WAS and other busses ran to the major intermediate stations.
The train itself still had folks on it after your bus left and my understanding is that it actually reversed back to Birmingham and detoured into ATL via CSX's route through Talladega, although I don't know what specific route it took. It was scheduled to terminate in Atlanta shortly and deadhead back to NOL, but they made the decision early this morning to just let it run through to NYP about 15 hours late rather than throw everyone onto busses.

Rafi
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They wouldn't have detoured through Talladega to go to ATL via CSX. If they did that would have involved going pretty far south then heading almost due north to ATL. The only way they would have went through Tallladega would be on NS to get to BHM, by going to Childersburg and then transferring to the NS line from Montgomery to BHM. This line joins the Crescent's normal route at Leed's AL and heads into BHM from the east. The train would have then turned west to go to ATL via CSX. Although this routing is possible it is unlikely since the NS line between ATN and Talladega is class 1 or less track that as of late has been being used to store un-needed cars.

Most likely they backed to the Crescent from ATN to the Anniston Army depot about 5 mi away, wyed the train or in the least the locos. Then the train would operate the same as #19 to BHM and head east on CSX. I think there is a connection between the BHM- ATL NS line and the CSX BHM-ATL line at Irondale, just east of BHM. If not the train went all the way to the Amtrak station in BHM and then proceeded to ATL via CSX. In eithier instance the Amtrak crew would have ran out of hours, and a CSX crew would have been needed for the CSX portion.

Ideally the best way to have dealt with this would have been to simply hold the train at ATN until the derailment was cleared, or buss as many pax as possible to their destination and put every one else up in a hotel. Then the next day when #19 arrived at ATN, couple the canceled consist to #19 and run the train with 4 P-42's a full set, and a closed empty set to NYP to go back into rotation. This would have required the fewest operating crews and would have allowed the crew and pax a chance to get a good night's sleep in ATN.
 
Well, I can tell you with certainty that the train departed Birmingham on the detour at 1:55 AM and arrived at Talladega at 4:00 am enroute to ATL. Again, I don't know how they routed specifically or if any turning was involved, but those are the facts I'm getting.
 
Crescent ATN & TCL said:
Rafi said:
While it was an ordeal getting to ATL, you scraped by better than most, Bill. While you were being bussed out, all of the northbound passengers in Atlanta were boarding busses of their own. An express bus ran ATL-WAS and other busses ran to the major intermediate stations.
The train itself still had folks on it after your bus left and my understanding is that it actually reversed back to Birmingham and detoured into ATL via CSX's route through Talladega, although I don't know what specific route it took. It was scheduled to terminate in Atlanta shortly and deadhead back to NOL, but they made the decision early this morning to just let it run through to NYP about 15 hours late rather than throw everyone onto busses.

Rafi
Click to expand...
They wouldn't have detoured through Talladega to go to ATL via CSX. If they did that would have involved going pretty far south then heading almost due north to ATL. The only way they would have went through Tallladega would be on NS to get to BHM, by going to Childersburg and then transferring to the NS line from Montgomery to BHM. This line joins the Crescent's normal route at Leed's AL and heads into BHM from the east. The train would have then turned west to go to ATL via CSX. Although this routing is possible it is unlikely since the NS line between ATN and Talladega is class 1 or less track that as of late has been being used to store un-needed cars.

Most likely they backed to the Crescent from ATN to the Anniston Army depot about 5 mi away, wyed the train or in the least the locos. Then the train would operate the same as #19 to BHM and head east on CSX. I think there is a connection between the BHM- ATL NS line and the CSX BHM-ATL line at Irondale, just east of BHM. If not the train went all the way to the Amtrak station in BHM and then proceeded to ATL via CSX. In eithier instance the Amtrak crew would have ran out of hours, and a CSX crew would have been needed for the CSX portion.

Ideally the best way to have dealt with this would have been to simply hold the train at ATN until the derailment was cleared, or buss as many pax as possible to their destination and put every one else up in a hotel. Then the next day when #19 arrived at ATN, couple the canceled consist to #19 and run the train with 4 P-42's a full set, and a closed empty set to NYP to go back into rotation. This would have required the fewest operating crews and would have allowed the crew and pax a chance to get a good night's sleep in ATN.
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I am sure the idea of trying to find enough rooms and bus transportation to and from the station in ATN was an issue in not making this decision.
 
And I can confirm I saw the crescent NB at the Atlanta platform at 10:47 toda not moving. There was also some sort of Heritage something behind the Viewliners.

It's a good thing I read the forum first...I was about to come here and post that I saw the consist yadda yadda what happened!? :p
 
Amtking said:
Bill Haithcoat said:
It could have been a lot worse, it could have been us that derailed.
Click to expand...

Today's northbound Crescent is expected in Philly at 2:50 AM tomorrow.
Click to expand...
So 20 and 19 will meet somewhere between Lynchburg and Charlottesville around 9:30 PM tonight... wow. I'll mention this to my father, but I doubt he'll have time to try figuring out where the meet might be and whether he can find a good vantage point.
 
MattW said:
And I can confirm I saw the crescent NB at the Atlanta platform at 10:47 toda not moving. There was also some sort of Heritage something behind the Viewliners.It's a good thing I read the forum first...I was about to come here and post that I saw the consist yadda yadda what happened!? :p
Click to expand...
The heritage car is a deadheading diner. Somebody got a video of it pulling out of BHM (the first time).

 
Not exactly comprehensive, but here are a few comments on the re-route:

The "CSX" line that crosses the NS line in the vicinity of Irondale is the former SAL line between Birmingham and Atlanta. It is long gone as a through route.

There would have been one potential all-NS route. It would be from B'ham up through Atalla to Chattanooga and then back down to Atlanta via Rome GA. Best guess: something like 8 to 10 hours running time.

To go south on the ex-Central of Georgia line from B'ham to Columbus GA would reqire a lot more time, and without spending a good bit of time with a map and access to current employee timetables that I do not have anyway, I do not know what is still in place with decent speed limits that would get you from Columbus to Atlanta.

The CSX route used, definitely based on really going through Talladega, is the Lineville Subdivision to Lagrange GA and then up the former A&WP to Atlanta. Truly a rare milage route, as the Lineville Sub never had much in the way of passenger traffic, and the last train, a local ended sometime in the early 50's. By this route, the distance between B'ahn and Atlanta is something like 235 miles.

At one time there was a Southern Railway line that went soutwest from Anniston which went through Talladega, but I have no idea whether it is still there or not. By it, the Anniston to Talladega distance is 23 miles. Talladega is 72 miles from B'ham via the Lineville Sub.

If the train were wyed and then run back to B'ham, it would have been oriented correctly to go down the Lineville Sub, as from the station in B'ham, which is the ex-L&N station, you would head south toward Montgomery AL on the L&N main to Parkwood where the junction, and current beginning of the Lineville Sub is located. From there it is more or less east to Talladega, and on somewhat southeast to Lagrange, and then a direct connection to the A&WP to go northeast to Atlanta.
 
I boarded the doomed #20 in NOL trying to make a Tuscaloosa turn to meet up with Alan and the On-Track-On-Line gang. Unfortunately, I sat in Meridian for four plus hours not wanting to chance having to sleep in the depot in Tuscaloosa waiting on today's #19 and missing Alan. (As per the TT #20 went into the station first and I could have made the turn.)When I first saw the diner at the bumper in NOUPT my first thought was, "So this is the way they are going to solve the Viewliner lateral motion problems." The diner is the heaviest car in the train but being on the hind end it leads to flat spots; case in point~ when the Mobile section used to cut off at Birmingham and take the lounge car with it. Anyway, I walked the consist and chuckled to myself, "Oh my, Engine, Engine #9;" I had never been pulled by it and added it to my short list of have to ride behind engines.

No one, including the outbound NOL conductor or the on board LSA, knew the status of the diner other than it was bad ordered; this could anything from a burned up grill to a safety defect. I think the thing that surprised me most was that there was a spare diner in NOL. Does anyone know if one is stored there for a spare?

I know exactly what Alan ate and wore on yesterday's #19 because I sat right across from him. He speaks the truth.The OTOL gang was very cordial and treated me like one of their own. It was a pleasure to meet each and every one of them. Alan, you should be proud to have such a fine mother.
 
George Harris said:
Not exactly comprehensive, but here are a few comments on the re-route:
The "CSX" line that crosses the NS line in the vicinity of Irondale is the former SAL line between Birmingham and Atlanta. It is long gone as a through route.

There would have been one potential all-NS route. It would be from B'ham up through Atalla to Chattanooga and then back down to Atlanta via Rome GA. Best guess: something like 8 to 10 hours running time.

To go south on the ex-Central of Georgia line from B'ham to Columbus GA would reqire a lot more time, and without spending a good bit of time with a map and access to current employee timetables that I do not have anyway, I do not know what is still in place with decent speed limits that would get you from Columbus to Atlanta.

The CSX route used, definitely based on really going through Talladega, is the Lineville Subdivision to Lagrange GA and then up the former A&WP to Atlanta. Truly a rare milage route, as the Lineville Sub never had much in the way of passenger traffic, and the last train, a local ended sometime in the early 50's. By this route, the distance between B'ahn and Atlanta is something like 235 miles.

At one time there was a Southern Railway line that went soutwest from Anniston which went through Talladega, but I have no idea whether it is still there or not. By it, the Anniston to Talladega distance is 23 miles. Talladega is 72 miles from B'ham via the Lineville Sub.

If the train were wyed and then run back to B'ham, it would have been oriented correctly to go down the Lineville Sub, as from the station in B'ham, which is the ex-L&N station, you would head south toward Montgomery AL on the L&N main to Parkwood where the junction, and current beginning of the Lineville Sub is located. From there it is more or less east to Talladega, and on somewhat southeast to Lagrange, and then a direct connection to the A&WP to go northeast to Atlanta.
Click to expand...
George, thanks for doing my work for me. And doing it better, I would not have thought of all of that.I have been out all day and not had time to crack my old timetables.

One thought I had, as you noted,it could not have been Seaboard all the way as you point out.

Also, living in ATL we hear a lot about the Silver Comet Trail. This is abandoned Seaboard trackage used for byciles and hiking. Named after its top train.P.S. George, I know that you and some know that, but many may not.

Lastly how iintriging it if it went to Chattanooga and back down, would love to have done that, old stomping grounds.
 
Rafi said:
Given that I was just in Chattanooga yesterday and drove all of the way to Nashville to fly home to Baltimore, I would have BEGGED my way onto that train!
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And I am about to wish I had stayed on board, and had been ticketed at least to DC,rather than ATl. Why?

To see that scenery in the daylight which is usually seen at night..

In truth, I have ridden the Crescent enough and found it late often enough I probably have seen the whole route by day, but, still,not for years and not like this would have been.

Oh, yes, and to get whatever the strange mileage was between Anniston and Talladega and Atlanta.
 
The extremes in the detours would have been much less in years past. The now gone SAL line between B'han and Atlanta was slightly faster than the Southern route mainly because it was not as crooked. So, 1.5 hours more or less back to Birmingham and then 4.0 hours to Atlanta via the Seaboard. If on time to begin with, you would be something like 6 to 7 hours off the schedule.

Given the curves in both the Lineville Sub and the A&WP, combined with so far as I know a 50 mph speed limit, anything 6 to 8 hours would be almost impossible. Thus given the same back to B'han time, 10 hours minimum in total for the detour once the decision was made.
 
#20 left NOL pretty late today. Wonder if it was a issue with crew rest from all this mess?
 
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Upstate said:
#20 left NOL pretty late today. Wonder if it was a issue with crew rest from all this mess?
Click to expand...

Well maybe partly, but I am thinking more that the southbound from the night before arrived hours late. But I cannot seem to prove that from the Amtrak train staus reports just yet.I thought I found if that way earlier but cannot seem to find it now.
 
Something really nice just happened. A living breathing human being from Amtrak, somebody named Barbara, called to apologize for the freight detailment inconvenience.

Also they are sending me a voucher for the BHM to ATL portion of the trip.

What a nice gesture, a real phone call, etc.
 
Bill Haithcoat said:
Something really nice just happened. A living breathing human being from Amtrak, somebody named Barbara, called to apologize for the freight detailment inconvenience.
Also they are sending me a voucher for the BHM to ATL portion of the trip.

What a nice gesture, a real phone call, etc.
Click to expand...
And you hadn't even asked for anything?
 
MrFSS said:
Bill Haithcoat said:
Something really nice just happened. A living breathing human being from Amtrak, somebody named Barbara, called to apologize for the freight detailment inconvenience.
Also they are sending me a voucher for the BHM to ATL portion of the trip.

What a nice gesture, a real phone call, etc.
Click to expand...
And you hadn't even asked for anything?
Click to expand...

Nope, I had not asked at all. I thought about it but reasoned they did enough by providing buses.They handled the situation reasonably well, ec.
 
George Harris said:
Not exactly comprehensive, but here are a few comments on the re-route:
The "CSX" line that crosses the NS line in the vicinity of Irondale is the former SAL line between Birmingham and Atlanta. It is long gone as a through route.

There would have been one potential all-NS route. It would be from B'ham up through Atalla to Chattanooga and then back down to Atlanta via Rome GA. Best guess: something like 8 to 10 hours running time.

To go south on the ex-Central of Georgia line from B'ham to Columbus GA would reqire a lot more time, and without spending a good bit of time with a map and access to current employee timetables that I do not have anyway, I do not know what is still in place with decent speed limits that would get you from Columbus to Atlanta.

The CSX route used, definitely based on really going through Talladega, is the Lineville Subdivision to Lagrange GA and then up the former A&WP to Atlanta. Truly a rare milage route, as the Lineville Sub never had much in the way of passenger traffic, and the last train, a local ended sometime in the early 50's. By this route, the distance between B'ahn and Atlanta is something like 235 miles.

At one time there was a Southern Railway line that went soutwest from Anniston which went through Talladega, but I have no idea whether it is still there or not. By it, the Anniston to Talladega distance is 23 miles. Talladega is 72 miles from B'ham via the Lineville Sub.

If the train were wyed and then run back to B'ham, it would have been oriented correctly to go down the Lineville Sub, as from the station in B'ham, which is the ex-L&N station, you would head south toward Montgomery AL on the L&N main to Parkwood where the junction, and current beginning of the Lineville Sub is located. From there it is more or less east to Talladega, and on somewhat southeast to Lagrange, and then a direct connection to the A&WP to go northeast to Atlanta.
Click to expand...

The NS Trackage between ATN, Tallladega, Childersburg, and Calera is still intact and in use from Talladega to Calera, between Talladega and ATN it is used only to store equipment.

There is a CSX line in place between BHM and ATL, via Irondale, Ragland and Ohattchee. This line sees a couple of freights a day,It would be the shortest re-route by mileage, but probably not travel time.

Going through Talladega would be much longer mileage-wise, time-wise I'm not sure. The Lineville sub is pretty heavily used and CSX would be reluctant to allow Amtrak to detour on this line.

I'm not sure how they re-routed the train. I would love to see somebody post something about seeing the train and where, or better yet someone post a video on youtube of the detour.
 
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