Gateway Project/New York Penn Station capacity improvement

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
New Hudson Tunnel Website. Check it out:

http://www.hudsontunnelproject.com/index.html
That's a fascinating document!

Thanks for posting it, Andrew.

Apparently to appease the haters, this is no longer an Amtrak project. The FRA is running the show. It is all about restoring the North River Tunnels damaged by Sandy.

And WE PROMISE that it does not increase capacity for Amtrak trains. For real.

While the Proposed Action addresses maintenance and resilience of the NEC Hudson River crossing, it would not increase rail capacity. At the same time, the Proposed Action would not preclude other future projects to expand rail capacity in the area. Accordingly, while the Proposed Action may also be an element of a larger program to expand rail capacity, it would meet an urgent existing need and will be evaluated as a separate project from any larger initiative. Ultimately, an increase in service between Newark Penn Station and PSNY cannot be realized until other substantial infrastructure capacity improvements are built in addition to a new Hudson River rail tunnel. These improvements will be the subject of one or more separate design, engineering, and appropriate environmental reviews.
My bold added.

The new Portal Bridge, adding tracks Newark-NYPS (as they call it), and any expansion of

Penn Station such as Penn South are separate. So CongressCritters will get a chance down the line to vote against anything that might help Acelas, the "Soviet style" Amtrak, or any form of HSR.

If that's what it takes to get the Tunnel Boring Machines going, we'll take the deal and worry about paying for capacity improvements in a few years.
First and foremost, two additional tunnels, along with substation improvements between NYC and Washington D.C.--and a fourth track over a nearly 10 mile segment in Maryland-- should enable half-hour Acela service to operate at some point in the future.

The new Portal Bridge, which will be located six miles west of Penn Station in northern New Jersey, (and the Manhattan Concrete Casing Project extension) is expected to begin soon, as the Port Authority of NY and NJ is applying for federal grants so that each state--New York and New Jersey--receive a component of the Gateway Project.

Tiger Grants for at least one of those two projects were submitted yesterday.

Here is a recent Port Authority press conference that discusses the Portal Bridge and Tunnel Box extension: http://corpinfo.panynj.gov/pages/board-committee-meeting-videos/ which begins around 16 minutes after the video begins
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Great topic, but at 45, I'm wondering if in my lifetime I will ever see trains running at 160-220mph on the NEC on a regular basis.
 
Most interesting information from http://www.hudsontunnelproject.com/faq.html:

What is included in the Hudson Tunnel Project?The Hudson Tunnel Project will include the following elements:

  • A new Northeast Corridor rail tunnel beneath the Hudson River, extending from a new tunnel portal in North Bergen, New Jersey to the Penn Station New York rail complex.
  • Ventilation shaft buildings above the tunnel on both sides of the Hudson River to provide smoke ventilation during emergencies.
  • Modifications to the existing Northeast Corridor tracks and signal systems in New Jersey and additional track and signal systems on the Northeast Corridor to connect the new tunnel to the Northeast Corridor. Modifications are anticipated beginning just east of Frank R. Lautenberg Station in Secaucus, New Jersey, and approaching the new tunnel portal in North Bergen, New Jersey.
  • Modifications to connecting rail infrastructure west of Penn Station New York to connect the new tunnel’s tracks to the existing tracks at Penn Station New York.
  • Rehabilitation of the existing Northeast Corridor rail tunnel’s structure, tracks, and signals, one tube at a time.
 
All this was presented at the TransAction Conference two weeks back by Drew Galloway. Unfortunately haven't been able to get a pointer to the slides yet.

Estimated date of completion (assuming funding comes through in a timely manner) is late 2025, with rehab of the old tunnels taking place 2026 - 2028, so full capacity of four tracks would become available at some point after 2028..

BTW the posted URL above is giving 404, because erroneously the ":" at the end of that line has been included in the URL. The correct URL is: http://www.hudsontunnelproject.com/faq.html
 
Great topic, but at 45, I'm wondering if in my lifetime I will ever see trains running at 160-220mph on the NEC on a regular basis.
It seems entirely possible to me that an extremely brief almost insignificant length of track would be rated 160MPH. Any speed improvements more significant than that may border on the impossible under the current governing structure.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
All this was presented at the TransAction Conference two weeks back by Drew Galloway. Unfortunately haven't been able to get a pointer to the slides yet.

Estimated date of completion (assuming funding comes through in a timely manner) is late 2025, with rehab of the old tunnels taking place 2026 - 2028, so full capacity of four tracks would become available at some point after 2028..

BTW the posted URL above is giving 404, because erroneously the ":" at the end of that line has been included in the URL. The correct URL is: http://www.hudsontunnelproject.com/faq.html
Is there another PDF that I can access?

What did Drew Galloway say regarding getting the ROD and funding strategies for the Hudson Tunnel Project?
 
I went to the Hudson Tunnel Scoping Meeting Today--sounds like the NEPA folks and engineering people are committed to a two year schedule before the Record of Decision gets issued.
 
US DOT July 14 press release: Gateway Program Projects Take First Step Toward Qualifying For Major USDOT Funding. Excerpts:

WASHINGTON – U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx announced today that two major infrastructure projects in the New York City area are now one step closer to qualifying for federal funding. The U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) has moved the Hudson Tunnel Project and Portal North Bridge – both critical elements of the Gateway Program – into the Project Development process for New Starts, a type of Capital Investment Grant available through the Federal Transit Administration (FTA).

....

Project Development is the first phase that these projects will be required to complete before a construction grant could be awarded. In this phase, the Hudson Tunnel Project and Portal North Bridge will move forward with identifying a specific development plan and, in the case of the Hudson Tunnel Project, completing the environmental review process. The Portal North Bridge has already completed the necessary environmental review. The move also authorizes the project sponsor, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (Port Authority) and its partners Amtrak and NJ TRANSIT to begin incurring costs related to the environmental review and engineering and design activities.
 
US DOT July 14 press release: Gateway Program Projects Take First Step Toward Qualifying For Major USDOT Funding. Excerpts:

WASHINGTON – U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx announced today that two major infrastructure projects in the New York City area are now one step closer to qualifying for federal funding. The U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) has moved the Hudson Tunnel Project and Portal North Bridge – both critical elements of the Gateway Program – into the Project Development process for New Starts, a type of Capital Investment Grant available through the Federal Transit Administration (FTA).

....

Project Development is the first phase that these projects will be required to complete before a construction grant could be awarded. In this phase, the Hudson Tunnel Project and Portal North Bridge will move forward with identifying a specific development plan and, in the case of the Hudson Tunnel Project, completing the environmental review process. The Portal North Bridge has already completed the necessary environmental review. The move also authorizes the project sponsor, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (Port Authority) and its partners Amtrak and NJ TRANSIT to begin incurring costs related to the environmental review and engineering and design activities.
And from https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/docs/NJ%20Portal%20North%20Bridge%20PD%20profile_0.pd fand https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/docs/NJ-NY%20Hudson%20Tunnel%20PD%20profile_0.pdf respectively:

[SIZE=16pt]Portal North Bridge Project [/SIZE]

[SIZE=14pt]Hudson County, New Jersey [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]New Starts Project Development Information Prepared June 2016 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]The Portal North Bridge Project entails the construction of a new, two-track fixed structure bridge across the Hackensack River in Hudson County, New Jersey along the Northeast Corridor (NEC). The existing moveable swing span bridge has only 23 feet of vertical clearance above the mean high water level and must pivot open to allow maritime traffic to pass through, closing the bridge to rail traffic interrupting operations on the NEC for both Amtrak and New Jersey Transit (NJ TRANSIT). Additionally, the “miter rails,” which allow the rails to disengage and the bridge to open and close, permanently restrict speeds on the bridge to 60 miles per hour, while trains can operate at 90 miles per hours on adjacent portions of the NEC. These conditions create bottlenecks along the NEC, especially during peak commute hours. The new bridge will provide enough vertical clearance to accommodate current and forecast maritime traffic and allow trains to operate at higher speeds. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]The Project is part of the Northeast Corridor Gateway Program, a series of strategic rail infrastructure investments designed to improve current service and create new capacity. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ) currently serves as the project sponsor, but the Project is a joint undertaking that also includes Amtrak and New Jersey Transit (NJ TRANSIT). [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]A Notice of Intent to initiate the environmental review was published in the Federal Register on December 12, 2006. The Draft Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) was published in February 2008, with the Final EIS published in October 2008. The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) issued a Record of Decision (ROD) in December 2008. The current schedule anticipates selection of a locally preferred alternative and its incorporation into the region’s fiscally constrained long range plan in 2017, entry into Engineering in the first quarter of 2017, receipt of a Full Funding Grant Agreement in the second quarter of 2018, and the opening for revenue service in the second quarter of 2024. [/SIZE]

Hudson Tunnel Project


[SIZE=14pt]Secaucus, New Jersey to New York, New York [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]New Starts Project Development Information Prepared June 2016 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]The Hudson Tunnel Project is a new two-track heavy rail tunnel along the Northeast Corridor from the Bergen Palisades in New Jersey to Manhattan that will directly serve Penn Station New York. It consists of three major elements: the Hudson Yards right-of-way preservation project, the Hudson Tunnel, and the rehabilitation and modernization of the existing North River tunnel. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]The Hudson Tunnel Project is part of the Northeast Corridor Gateway Program, a series of strategic rail infrastructure investments designed to improve current service and create new capacity. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ) currently serves as the project sponsor, but the Project is a joint undertaking that also includes Amtrak and New Jersey Transit (NJ TRANSIT). [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]The existing 106-year old North River Tunnel is owned by Amtrak. NJ TRANSIT and Amtrak operate approximately 450 trains each weekday through the tunnel that carry over 200,000 daily passenger trips. The North River Tunnel presents reliability challenges due to damage from Superstorm Sandy in 2012, as well as the overall age the tunnel and the intensity of its current use. Significant delays to a large number of trains occur when problems arise. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]The benefits of the Hudson Tunnel Project are twofold. First, the new tunnel will enable the closure of the existing tunnel for reconstruction without causing a significant reduction of capacity. Second, once renovations on the North River Tunnel are complete, its reopening will greatly increase rail capacity and provide greater redundancy in the event of malfunction. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Preparation of an Environmental Impact Statement is currently underway, and is expected to be completed in March 2018. The selection of a locally preferred alternative and its incorporation into the region’s fiscally constrained long range plan is expected to occur in the first quarter of 2018. The current schedule anticipates the project will enter Engineering in the second quarter of 2018, receive a Full Funding Grant Agreement from FTA in spring 2019, and have both the new tunnel and the rehabilitated tunnel open for revenue service by 2028. [/SIZE]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
CH2M-Hill is VERY well respected for infrastructure engineering in the Pacific Northwest. Good catch.
 
BUT: we now have the POL from Brooklan wanting Gateway tunnel bores made for freight. That is a laugh as the additional costs would be very large. .
 
Last edited by a moderator:
BUT: we now have the POL from Brooklan wanting Gateway tunnel bores made for freight. That is a laugh as the additional costs would be very large. .
I guess that is the natural reaction after the latest attempt at building a freight tunnel to Brooklyn failed recently. "They look like they are going to get their tunnel, we want to use it too!"

The good news is that there are so many other obstacles (above and beyond those that need to be dealt with just to make the new Hudson Tunnels happen, let alone the entirety of Gateway) to running freight along that particular portion of the NEC that sanity might prevail.
 
Huh, first I heard of this... but could be a VERY interesting idea. As I understand it, the tunnels are already being designed such that a lower level for future HSR trains can pass through to a future lower level of Penn Station.

Wonder if you could do some sort of compromise, make just one bore larger, and split off the freight at a deeper point and continue straight under Manhattan, bypassing Penn completely. Hmm.
 
From what I have heard, no freight railroad has agreed to use such a tunnel. They will have to be brought kicking a screaming to it. Their tendency has been to terminate their inter-modals away from the mess that is the tri-state area, offload onto tractor trailers and let them handle it. Minimally the passage through such a tunnel would have to be to a large transshipment point with quick turnaround for anyone to take this seriously. Just building a tunnel with slow throughput and turnaround simply won't cut it. Croxton is about as close as one will get to Brooklyn from the west bank with any high priority intermodal train. And most of the New York area freight arrives on the west bank via the CSX River Line and NS Lehigh Valley Line, not on the east bank.
 
If they could ever build an intermodal yard somewhere in mid-Long Island, surrounded by warehouses and good highway access, and improved clearance on the LIRR to allow the operation of double stack trains at night.

Then it might make sense to build a freight tunnel to Brooklyn. Or start by running some freights down the Hudson Line and the Hell Gate Bridge overnite, when their is little passenger train traffic...
 
Huh, first I heard of this... but could be a VERY interesting idea. As I understand it, the tunnels are already being designed such that a lower level for future HSR trains can pass through to a future lower level of Penn Station.

Wonder if you could do some sort of compromise, make just one bore larger, and split off the freight at a deeper point and continue straight under Manhattan, bypassing Penn completely. Hmm.
Definitely not going to happen. It was suggested by, I believe, some politicians from Brooklyn after the latest effort looking at building a freight tunnel to Brooklyn (where such a tunnel might make sense) collapsed. Some of the obstacles that I alluded to where mentioned here;

The 2.8% gradient should dash all hopes of running any serious freight through it

From what I have heard, no freight railroad has agreed to use such a tunnel. They will have to be brought kicking a screaming to it. Their tendency has been to terminate their inter-modals away from the mess that is the tri-state area, offload onto tractor trailers and let them handle it. Minimally the passage through such a tunnel would have to be to a large transshipment point with quick turnaround for anyone to take this seriously. Just building a tunnel with slow throughput and turnaround simply won't cut it. Croxton is about as close as one will get to Brooklyn from the west bank with any high priority intermodal train. And most of the New York area freight arrives on the west bank via the CSX River Line and NS Lehigh Valley Line, not on the east bank.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Costs would at least triple for a freight to Brooklyn.

1. larger tunnel bores under Hudson,

2. The tunnel box now under construction will not clear double stacks or auto carriers

3. NYP would need separate tracks with higher and wider clearances for plate "H" that could not be used for passenger trains.

4. Last but very high cost would be tunnel bores for plate "H" under the east river.

On further consideration whole project $ 40 - $50B
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No major disagreement with the first three points. I don't think number four would add significantly to the cost, simply because there are so many other components that are involved (and are fixed cost regardless of the tunnel size) in the overall cost of a project that size.
 
Actually one practical problem in trying to go to Plate H height would mean that the floor of the tunnel will have to go lower in order for there to be a safe distance from the tunnel roof to the river bed. his will mean a even higher gradient for the track to come up all the way to the Penn Station level which will defeat the entire purpose of trying to shove Plate H cars in freight train through the tunnel.

Now if Brooklyn would pay for the entire thing without losing any passenger connectivity and capacity - guess what? You just got Nadler's tunnel all over again, quite independent of the tunnels to Penn Station!
 
Back
Top