Genisis in San Deigo

[GG-1]

Aloha

Got a few miles on Amtrak Today, quick trip Fulerton-San Deigo. On the return was 121, a Genisis? pushing. I asked the conductor and he confirmed the motor was a Long Haul engine. He was suprised also that it was in the consist.

Also for the more frequent rider which is better, Pulled or Pushed?

Mahalo

Eric

 

[AmtrakWPK]

From a safety perspective I would MUCH rather have the engine in front. If there is a grade crossing accident you are much less likely to have passenger injuries and deaths if that great big heavy engine is the first thing that comes into contact with whatever is blocking the crossing. Those engines are built incredibly strong, they are very very heavy, and there aren't any passengers in it. Physics.

 

[rmgreenesq]

From a safety perspective I would MUCH rather have the engine in front. If there is a grade crossing accident you are much less likely to have passenger injuries and deaths if that great big heavy engine is the first thing that comes into contact with whatever is blocking the crossing. Those engines are built incredibly strong, they are very very heavy, and there aren't any passengers in it. Physics.

On my recent trip on the Sivler Star, a passenger in the Cafe Car explained rail v. aircraft accidents survival chances this way:

In an aircraft accident, chances are good that everybody dies. In a rail accident, the only pepole that usually die are the occupants of the automobile.

Rick

 

[PRR 60]

...On my recent trip on the Sivler Star, a passenger in the Cafe Car explained rail v. aircraft accidents survival chances this way:
In an aircraft accident, chances are good that everybody dies. In a rail accident, the only pepole that usually die are the occupants of the automobile.

Rick

That is false as it applied to aircraft accidents. Most are survivable, but the ones that make the headlines are those that are not. A prime example of survivability was the 2005 runway overrun of Air France 358. The plane overshot the runway at Toronto, plunged into a ravine, caught fire, and was destroyed. All 309 passengers and crew survived. The recent ComAir accident at Lexington KY where 49 of 50 passengers and crew died is presently being investigated not only to determine the cause of the crash (which, sadly, is pretty well known), but also to determine why this accident was so deadly. It should not have been.

The bottom line is that the often held belief that all air accidents are 100% fatal is as wrong as the thought that Amtrak is somehow at fault for grade crossing fatalities.

 

[MrFSS]

...On my recent trip on the Sivler Star, a passenger in the Cafe Car explained rail v. aircraft accidents survival chances this way:

In an aircraft accident, chances are good that everybody dies. In a rail accident, the only pepole that usually die are the occupants of the automobile.

Rick

That is false as it applied to aircraft accidents. Most are survivable, but the ones that make the headlines are those that are not. A prime example of survivability was the 2005 runway overrun of Air France 358. The plane overshot the runway at Toronto, plunged into a ravine, caught fire, and was destroyed. All 309 passengers and crew survived. The recent ComAir accident at Lexington KY where 49 of 50 passengers and crew died is presently being investigated not only to determine the cause of the crash (which, sadly, is pretty well known), but also to determine why this accident was so deadly. It should not have been.

The bottom line is that the often held belief that all air accidents are 100% fatal is as wrong as the thought that Amtrak is somehow at fault for grade crossing fatalities.

As mentioned in other threads, I live very near the Comair accident site. We have news about it on almost every newscast, still, and have had since it happened.
The word we have here is that no one died from the crash, they all died from the fire that happened afterwards. Full fuel tanks at takeoff and no time to try and empty them before the crash.

 

[PRR 60]

...The word we have here is that no one died from the crash, they all died from the fire that happened afterwards. Full fuel tanks at takeoff and no time to try and empty them before the crash.

That is correct. The physical crash was bad, but not that bad. This accident scenario is widely considered survivable. But, tragically, this one was not, except for the First Officer. Fire killed almost all on board.

The questions revolve around why that happened. Why was escape prior to consumption by fire not possible. Was the plane consumed so fast that no one could get out, and if so, why? Was evacuation somehow impaired or blocked by something? Are there aspects of the design of the CRJ that caused an evacuation problems. These are items that will be among those investigated by the NTSB.

 

[battalion51]

I would tend to agree that for the most part cab cars are safe. The practice of using cab cars in areas with grade crossings has been in heavy use for almost 30 years now. The FRA allows the practice to happen, and would not allow it if it weren't safe. There have been plenty of grade crossing incidents where everyone from the train has walked away. The folks at Bombardier and Alstom who have been building the vast majority of the cab cars in this country have been building these things strong for a number of years now, with very few major incidents.

As for the P-42 pinch hitting for the F59PHI that's not too terribly surprising. With the F59's having to be in for PM and one either on Cascades service or in transit the need to pinch hit becomes necessary. The 112-122 are all assigned to Amtrak West for use on the Coast Starlight and as needed for Amtrak California service or other intercity services.

 

[MrFSS]

Aloha
Got a few miles on Amtrak Today, quick trip Fulerton-San Deigo. On the return was 121, a Genisis? pushing. I asked the conductor and he confirmed the motor was a Long Haul engine. He was suprised also that it was in the consist.

Also for the more frequent rider which is better, Pulled or Pushed?

Mahalo

Eric

Eric, is this the type engine you are speaking about?

I took this in 03 in Merced, CA.

 

[battalion51]

He said it was the 121 doing the pushing, which is a P-42. The Engine you saw is a P-32-8. 20 of those are active at this time numbered 500, 503-519, 2051, and 2052.

 

[MrFSS]

He said it was the 121 doing the pushing, which is a P-42. The Engine you saw is a P-32-8. 20 of those are active at this time numbered 500, 503-519, 2051, and 2052.

OK - so what does a Genesis look like? That's what the original poster thought he saw.

 

[tp49]

The way the California cars (Surfliner cars are the same) are built the majority of the passengers are on the upper level and would more likely then not be unaffected by a grade crossing crash. It really doesn't matter to me if the train is in push or pull mode you just get the locomotive noise when it's in pull. As for the P-42's they pinch hit regularly on the CA intrastate services.

 

[Chi_Train_Fan]

He said it was the 121 doing the pushing, which is a P-42. The Engine you saw is a P-32-8. 20 of those are active at this time numbered 500, 503-519, 2051, and 2052.

OK - so what does a Genesis look like? That's what the original poster thought he saw.

The GE Genesis locomotives (P40 and P42) look like this:

The locomotives pictured are all P42s.

Cheers,

David Z

Chicago, IL

 

[AmtrakFan]

David,

The P40's are in Storage. Also there are 2 F59PHI's in for overhaul plus 1 on the Starlight.

 

[AlanB]

David, The P40's are in Storage. Also there are 2 F59PHI's in for overhaul plus 1 on the Starlight.

Actually that's not quite true. Yes, most P40's are in storage. However, 8 can be found in use by Metro North and/or Shore Line East at any given time, since they were leased by the State of Conneticut.

 

[Guest]

re: the safety of push v. pull, after a major (Metrolink) accident a couple of years ago caused when a vehicle parked on the main caused two trains to derail each other, resulting in 10 deaths, a major study was done, which showed that there is no statistical difference in terms of major injury or death when pushing v. when being pulled...

 

[AmtrakFan]

David,

The P40's are in Storage. Also there are 2 F59PHI's in for overhaul plus 1 on the Starlight.

Actually that's not quite true. Yes, most P40's are in storage. However, 8 can be found in use by Metro North and/or Shore Line East at any given time, since they were leased by the State of Conneticut.

Thank You for the Correction Alan.

 

[someguy]

when i took the surfliner from LAX to SLO and back last month it was being pushed by a Genesis numbered 122. As the Horizon cars that were used that day don't have cab control, "cabbage" F40PH 90208 was used to lead the train on its way back the next day. Incidentally, we had the regular Surfliner cars on the way back 3 days later

 

[MadManMoon]

Aloha
Got a few miles on Amtrak Today, quick trip Fulerton-San Deigo. On the return was 121, a Genisis? pushing. I asked the conductor and he confirmed the motor was a Long Haul engine. He was suprised also that it was in the consist.

Also for the more frequent rider which is better, Pulled or Pushed?

Mahalo

Eric

I can confirm that P42DC 121 was pulling a Surfliner into San Diego last night. I'm staying at the Hampton Inn downtown and my window is about 10 feet from the tracks. Watched her sail right by (well, not sail - crawl!) -- I remember thinking the horn sounded a bit different than the usual F59PHI...are the horns different models?

(BTW, you should have seen the hotel clerk's face when I asked for a room facing the tracks!)

 

[AlanB]

(BTW, you should have seen the hotel clerk's face when I asked for a room facing the tracks!)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[battalion51]

when i took the surfliner from LAX to SLO and back last month it was being pushed by a Genesis numbered 122. As the Horizon cars that were used that day don't have cab control, "cabbage" F40PH 90208 was used to lead the train on its way back the next day. Incidentally, we had the regular Surfliner cars on the way back 3 days later

Surfliner 798/799 uses a consist daily that has a P-42 the bag car, Horizon Coaches and Lounge and the most recent addition the 90208 (previously it was another P-42). The State of Califronia came up with the funding for this additional round trip to SLO a year or two ago, but they do not have the fleet flexibility with the Surfliners to be able to field a set of equipment for the run, since Horizon equipment is in abundance it was used.

I personally feel like it's wasteful to have a Cabbage and a regular baggage car when a cab car could be put on or the baggage car eliminated so unnecessary weight isn't being moved around. But what do I know.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Mahalo to David Z Chicago, IL For the picture just got home and trying to catch up and regroup for the next trip/convention in October.

 

[Carl]

Some interesting comments on Cab Car versus engine up front. Here in Southern California, the Pacific Surfliner runs in pull mode (typically an F59PHI up front) southbound and push mode (typically a Cab Car up front) northbound. Except for the direction involved the same is true of the Metrorail heavy rail commuter lime from LA to San Bernardino/Riverside.

During the past year or two we've had two particularly notable train-motor vehicle collisions. One about a year ago involved a Metrorail train and an SUV. The Metrorail was in push mode with the Cab Car bearing the brunt of the collision including quite a few seriously injured train passengers most of whom were in the Cab Car. Within the past month a southbound Amtrak Pacific Surfliner struck a pickup truck at the Leucadia grade crossing. The Amtrak was in pull mode. Th F59PH1 sustained minor cosmetic damage. The pickup, of course, was destroyed. There were no serious injuries on board the train.

It seems a no brainer to me. Where there are grade crossings the pull mode would almost certainly better protect the train passengers.

 

[battalion51]

Almost no two grade crossing incidents are exactly the same. So to compare one accident to another really is not a good comparison.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Interesting comments. Also interesting, is no one said anything about the ride. since the two trips were so close together my reaction was that push was smother that pull. Or am I imagining the difference.

 

[AMTRAK-P42]

AMTK 121 blew past me twice while at the beach today in San Clemente, one southbound and one northbound run.