H room buckets

[Alice]

I know how buckets work generally. My question relates to the H room when reserved by a wheelchair user. Does the H room bucket rise as other H rooms on a train are reserved? Or as some other kind of seat is reserved? Or only within two weeks of departure (when it is opened to all)? Or ??? Also, other types of rooms vary a lot by bucket. How much does the H room rise as it goes through buckets?

Is it important to reserve the H room as early as possible to get a better price, or only early enough that one is still available on the train I want?

 

[the_traveler]

I really don't know, but I think I've seen the price of a Family Bedroom rise - and there are only 1 of those per car!

 

[HP_Lovecraft]

Odd.

I was playing with the online system to see if the Family room changes (Using the Texas Eagle), and the room went from $396 in Feb, to $615 Mar-Dec. Probobly an error.

Anyway, isnt there more then 1 Family Bedroom per train? Then it still might be subject to the bucket system. Likewise for the H-room.

 

[Rail Freak]

I know how buckets work generally. My question relates to the H room when reserved by a wheelchair user. Does the H room bucket rise as other H rooms on a train are reserved? Or as some other kind of seat is reserved? Or only within two weeks of departure (when it is opened to all)? Or ??? Also, other types of rooms vary a lot by bucket. How much does the H room rise as it goes through buckets?
Is it important to reserve the H room as early as possible to get a better price, or only early enough that one is still available on the train I want?

That's an interesting question. I used the H Room on my 1st trip last year. I'm not wheelchair bound but won't win any races either! (I am disabled)

I've asked around about the pricing of the H Room & I've been told it is a discounted price of a sleeper, BUT what sleeper has yet to be determined by my thick brain pan!!!

 

[had8ley]

In booking the H room for someone we found something strange; we were looking at the Amtrak computer cause that's the only way you can book the H room. There are five buckets for the room but no available rooms at the lowest two buckets in October on any given date. Instead of raising fares it seems that Amtrak has either deleted some bucket availability or slimmed it down appreciably. Either way, I'm glad they didn't raise fares but it does make it difficult to find a decent fare even months out.

BTW, there is an automatic 15% discount attached to the room and the rail fare, but only for the H room.

 

[sky12065]

I know how buckets work generally. My question relates to the H room when reserved by a wheelchair user. Does the H room bucket rise as other H rooms on a train are reserved? Or as some other kind of seat is reserved? Or only within two weeks of departure (when it is opened to all)? Or ??? Also, other types of rooms vary a lot by bucket. How much does the H room rise as it goes through buckets?
Is it important to reserve the H room as early as possible to get a better price, or only early enough that one is still available on the train I want?

First of all I want to say that the H room is needed by more than those in wheel chairs. I first needed to travel in an H room more than 10 years ago and have never been confined to a wheel chair. Wheel chairs have been used to transport me fto and from a train from the station and in hospitals when the person's room I'm visiting depending on the distance need to reach the room.

As for the bucket on an H room, I can tell you from personal experience that you can call Julie to find out the cost of your itinirary, hang up to review with your spouse then call back 5 minutes later a find out that the price has changed. It happened to me a number of times before I got smart and placed the reservation on checking, pending our final decision.

I've heard that there is a 15% discount on the room but have never been able to determine 15% of what! I've tried by pricing a bedroom online then making the H room reservation. In then checking 15% off the bedroom, the results have not come close to the price I got the H room for. So heaven knows what the bucket is on the H room. Someday I just might check with Amtrak to get comparison low buckets on all rooms, the H discount confirmation and if there is an H discount opposed to it having it's own bucket structure, just what the 15% (or whatever) is taken off of!

 

[sky12065]

In booking the H room for someone we found something strange; we were looking at the Amtrak computer cause that's the only way you can book the H room. There are five buckets for the room but no available rooms at the lowest two buckets in October on any given date. Instead of raising fares it seems that Amtrak has either deleted some bucket availability or slimmed it down appreciably. Either way, I'm glad they didn't raise fares but it does make it difficult to find a decent fare even months out.BTW, there is an automatic 15% discount attached to the room and the rail fare, but only for the H room.

I'm confused! Do you have access to the reservation system other than what the general public can access at amtrak.com? If not I don't know how you can know or provide the information that you did above.

Also, based on what you've stated perhaps you can answer some of the questions I rose in my last post!

 

[Alice]

I know how buckets work generally. My question relates to the H room when reserved by a wheelchair user. Does the H room bucket rise as other H rooms on a train are reserved? Or as some other kind of seat is reserved? Or only within two weeks of departure (when it is opened to all)? Or ??? Also, other types of rooms vary a lot by bucket. How much does the H room rise as it goes through buckets?
Is it important to reserve the H room as early as possible to get a better price, or only early enough that one is still available on the train I want?

First of all I want to say that the H room is needed by more than those in wheel chairs. I first needed to travel in an H room more than 10 years ago and have never been confined to a wheel chair. Wheel chairs have been used to transport me fto and from a train from the station and in hospitals when the person's room I'm visiting depending on the distance need to reach the room.

As for the bucket on an H room, I can tell you from personal experience that you can call Julie to find out the cost of your itinirary, hang up to review with your spouse then call back 5 minutes later a find out that the price has changed. It happened to me a number of times before I got smart and placed the reservation on checking, pending our final decision.

I've heard that there is a 15% discount on the room but have never been able to determine 15% of what! I've tried by pricing a bedroom online then making the H room reservation. In then checking 15% off the bedroom, the results have not come close to the price I got the H room for. So heaven knows what the bucket is on the H room. Someday I just might check with Amtrak to get comparison low buckets on all rooms, the H discount confirmation and if there is an H discount opposed to it having it's own bucket structure, just what the 15% (or whatever) is taken off of!

I think the 15% discount is a disability discount and applies to whatever accommodations you choose, not just the H room. It is possible the criteria for the discount is different than the criteria for the H room ("passengers who are mobility impaired"). Would one of you with a non-mobility disability tell us if you get the discount, to satisfy curiousity?

When planning a trip, I use the roomette for comparison and my H room price is pretty close, sometimes higher and sometimes lower. It is always a lot less than a bedroom. I've had similar experiences to you getting estimates by phone so I am sure there is some kind of bucket system ... I'd just like to know how it works, and how much the "penalty" is for waiting ... closer to 20% or 200%?

That is really interesting what had8ley said about low buckets not being available in October. I wonder if that is for all accommodations or only H room. I think it was Access Bob who knew something about the ADA lawsuit Amtrak lost a while ago and wonder if some price break agreement from that is expiring.

 

[access bob]

I know how buckets work generally. My question relates to the H room when reserved by a wheelchair user. Does the H room bucket rise as other H rooms on a train are reserved? Or as some other kind of seat is reserved? Or only within two weeks of departure (when it is opened to all)? Or ??? Also, other types of rooms vary a lot by bucket. How much does the H room rise as it goes through buckets?
Is it important to reserve the H room as early as possible to get a better price, or only early enough that one is still available on the train I want?

First of all I want to say that the H room is needed by more than those in wheel chairs. I first needed to travel in an H room more than 10 years ago and have never been confined to a wheel chair. Wheel chairs have been used to transport me fto and from a train from the station and in hospitals when the person's room I'm visiting depending on the distance need to reach the room.

As for the bucket on an H room, I can tell you from personal experience that you can call Julie to find out the cost of your itinirary, hang up to review with your spouse then call back 5 minutes later a find out that the price has changed. It happened to me a number of times before I got smart and placed the reservation on checking, pending our final decision.

I've heard that there is a 15% discount on the room but have never been able to determine 15% of what! I've tried by pricing a bedroom online then making the H room reservation. In then checking 15% off the bedroom, the results have not come close to the price I got the H room for. So heaven knows what the bucket is on the H room. Someday I just might check with Amtrak to get comparison low buckets on all rooms, the H discount confirmation and if there is an H discount opposed to it having it's own bucket structure, just what the 15% (or whatever) is taken off of!

I think the 15% discount is a disability discount and applies to whatever accommodations you choose, not just the H room. It is possible the criteria for the discount is different than the criteria for the H room ("passengers who are mobility impaired"). Would one of you with a non-mobility disability tell us if you get the discount, to satisfy curiousity?

When planning a trip, I use the roomette for comparison and my H room price is pretty close, sometimes higher and sometimes lower. It is always a lot less than a bedroom. I've had similar experiences to you getting estimates by phone so I am sure there is some kind of bucket system ... I'd just like to know how it works, and how much the "penalty" is for waiting ... closer to 20% or 200%?

That is really interesting what had8ley said about low buckets not being available in October. I wonder if that is for all accommodations or only H room. I think it was Access Bob who knew something about the ADA lawsuit Amtrak lost a while ago and wonder if some price break agreement from that is expiring.

the lawsuit was the result of Amtrak charging Bedroom rates for wheelchair users in the H room when no accessible roomette is avaliable. the results of the suit is that a wheelchair user using the H room gets a discount that is declining over the years, some time ago it was almost 40% I believe. In any case Amtrak has been somewhat liberal in the application of the discount so most any disabled person using Amtrak gets the 15% discount, not sure how long Amtrak will continue this. the Lawsuit discount has or is soon to expire so not sure what Amtrak will do. however until Amtrak makes an accessible roomette avaliable then the H room must be sold at roomette prices to persons who use wheelchairs and/or other significant mobility impairments such that they physically cannot use the first floor roomettes on a Superliner or other single level car. essentially if you need the ramp to get on the train (or lift) then you would probably qualify.

Amtrak has been erratic in the application of this criteria but basically the H room is specifically for persons who physically cannot use any other room on the train.

Bob (one of the plantiffs)

 

[sky12065]

I know how buckets work generally. My question relates to the H room when reserved by a wheelchair user. Does the H room bucket rise as other H rooms on a train are reserved? Or as some other kind of seat is reserved? Or only within two weeks of departure (when it is opened to all)? Or ??? Also, other types of rooms vary a lot by bucket. How much does the H room rise as it goes through buckets?
Is it important to reserve the H room as early as possible to get a better price, or only early enough that one is still available on the train I want?

First of all I want to say that the H room is needed by more than those in wheel chairs. I first needed to travel in an H room more than 10 years ago and have never been confined to a wheel chair. Wheel chairs have been used to transport me fto and from a train from the station and in hospitals when the person's room I'm visiting depending on the distance need to reach the room.

As for the bucket on an H room, I can tell you from personal experience that you can call Julie to find out the cost of your itinirary, hang up to review with your spouse then call back 5 minutes later a find out that the price has changed. It happened to me a number of times before I got smart and placed the reservation on checking, pending our final decision.

I've heard that there is a 15% discount on the room but have never been able to determine 15% of what! I've tried by pricing a bedroom online then making the H room reservation. In then checking 15% off the bedroom, the results have not come close to the price I got the H room for. So heaven knows what the bucket is on the H room. Someday I just might check with Amtrak to get comparison low buckets on all rooms, the H discount confirmation and if there is an H discount opposed to it having it's own bucket structure, just what the 15% (or whatever) is taken off of!

I think the 15% discount is a disability discount and applies to whatever accommodations you choose, not just the H room. It is possible the criteria for the discount is different than the criteria for the H room ("passengers who are mobility impaired"). Would one of you with a non-mobility disability tell us if you get the discount, to satisfy curiousity?

When planning a trip, I use the roomette for comparison and my H room price is pretty close, sometimes higher and sometimes lower. It is always a lot less than a bedroom. I've had similar experiences to you getting estimates by phone so I am sure there is some kind of bucket system ... I'd just like to know how it works, and how much the "penalty" is for waiting ... closer to 20% or 200%?

That is really interesting what had8ley said about low buckets not being available in October. I wonder if that is for all accommodations or only H room. I think it was Access Bob who knew something about the ADA lawsuit Amtrak lost a while ago and wonder if some price break agreement from that is expiring.

the lawsuit was the result of Amtrak charging Bedroom rates for wheelchair users in the H room when no accessible roomette is avaliable. the results of the suit is that a wheelchair user using the H room gets a discount that is declining over the years, some time ago it was almost 40% I believe. In any case Amtrak has been somewhat liberal in the application of the discount so most any disabled person using Amtrak gets the 15% discount, not sure how long Amtrak will continue this. the Lawsuit discount has or is soon to expire so not sure what Amtrak will do. however until Amtrak makes an accessible roomette avaliable then the H room must be sold at roomette prices to persons who use wheelchairs and/or other significant mobility impairments such that they physically cannot use the first floor roomettes on a Superliner or other single level car. essentially if you need the ramp to get on the train (or lift) then you would probably qualify.

Amtrak has been erratic in the application of this criteria but basically the H room is specifically for persons who physically cannot use any other room on the train.

Bob (one of the plantiffs)

The 15% discount is a long time discount offered to persons with disabilities long before the lawsuit mentioned above, and IIRC it extended to more than the accessable room although I'm not sure if that was just for coach seats or extended to other accomodations.

For a 3 year period starting in 1998, Amtrak offered a 30% discount on the accessable bedroom as a result of the lawsuit to individuals with mobility imparements. So Alice, the 30% discount from the lawsuit expired nearly 9 years ago and the 15% continues to this day and will continue for the forseeable future.

Click HERE for further details on this particular topic and the lawsuit.

 

[WhoozOn1st]

Reserving comment, but watching this thread with great interest. Alice and me are working on traveling together to the Boston Gathering, so all input is greatly appreciated.

CHOWDAH!!

 

[had8ley]

I know how buckets work generally. My question relates to the H room when reserved by a wheelchair user. Does the H room bucket rise as other H rooms on a train are reserved? Or as some other kind of seat is reserved? Or only within two weeks of departure (when it is opened to all)? Or ??? Also, other types of rooms vary a lot by bucket. How much does the H room rise as it goes through buckets?
Is it important to reserve the H room as early as possible to get a better price, or only early enough that one is still available on the train I want?

First of all I want to say that the H room is needed by more than those in wheel chairs. I first needed to travel in an H room more than 10 years ago and have never been confined to a wheel chair. Wheel chairs have been used to transport me fto and from a train from the station and in hospitals when the person's room I'm visiting depending on the distance need to reach the room.

As for the bucket on an H room, I can tell you from personal experience that you can call Julie to find out the cost of your itinirary, hang up to review with your spouse then call back 5 minutes later a find out that the price has changed. It happened to me a number of times before I got smart and placed the reservation on checking, pending our final decision.

I've heard that there is a 15% discount on the room but have never been able to determine 15% of what! I've tried by pricing a bedroom online then making the H room reservation. In then checking 15% off the bedroom, the results have not come close to the price I got the H room for. So heaven knows what the bucket is on the H room. Someday I just might check with Amtrak to get comparison low buckets on all rooms, the H discount confirmation and if there is an H discount opposed to it having it's own bucket structure, just what the 15% (or whatever) is taken off of!

I think the 15% discount is a disability discount and applies to whatever accommodations you choose, not just the H room. It is possible the criteria for the discount is different than the criteria for the H room ("passengers who are mobility impaired"). Would one of you with a non-mobility disability tell us if you get the discount, to satisfy curiousity?

When planning a trip, I use the roomette for comparison and my H room price is pretty close, sometimes higher and sometimes lower. It is always a lot less than a bedroom. I've had similar experiences to you getting estimates by phone so I am sure there is some kind of bucket system ... I'd just like to know how it works, and how much the "penalty" is for waiting ... closer to 20% or 200%?

That is really interesting what had8ley said about low buckets not being available in October. I wonder if that is for all accommodations or only H room. I think it was Access Bob who knew something about the ADA lawsuit Amtrak lost a while ago and wonder if some price break agreement from that is expiring.

From what the person who granted me access to Amtrak's computer said it looks like there are five buckets set up for most sleeper rooms but only the upper three have availability no matter how far you go into the future. I wonder if anyone has tried this yet? Good way of saying, "Oh yeah, we have cheap rooms but you'll never be able to book one." And yes, the 15% applies to coach seating BUT there has to be a mobility impaired seat available. These are usually on the lower deck of the Superliners and at the vestibule end of the car on single level trains.

 

[had8ley]

In booking the H room for someone we found something strange; we were looking at the Amtrak computer cause that's the only way you can book the H room. There are five buckets for the room but no available rooms at the lowest two buckets in October on any given date. Instead of raising fares it seems that Amtrak has either deleted some bucket availability or slimmed it down appreciably. Either way, I'm glad they didn't raise fares but it does make it difficult to find a decent fare even months out.BTW, there is an automatic 15% discount attached to the room and the rail fare, but only for the H room.

I'm confused! Do you have access to the reservation system other than what the general public can access at amtrak.com? If not I don't know how you can know or provide the information that you did above.

Also, based on what you've stated perhaps you can answer some of the questions I rose in my last post!

The "H" or mobility accessible is NOT on the general public Amtrak computer. You have to call Amtrak res and talk to an agent who enters a specific code. If you are not mobility impaired you only get about a 15 day out from train date shot at the room IF every other room on your particular train is sold out. Yes, the bucket system is confusing but if you equate it to airline pricing it becomes easier to understand.

 

[JAChooChoo]

Hop scotching across several items:

 

The term "wheelchair" is too limited, "Disabled" properly fits the bill.

 

Amtrak's (and generally the ADA regulations) definition to qualify for a disability fare and advance qualification for an "H" room is:

 

Reservation by telephone or at a ticket counter.

Sorry, discounts are not available when you book online.

You must also provide written documentation of disability at the ticket counter and when boarding the train.

 

Acceptable documentation includes:

Transit system ID card

Membership card from a disabilities organization

Letter from a physician

 

When Reservations Are Required

To ensure that you get the space and accommodations you require, you must make a reservation for each of the following:

Wheelchair space

Transfer seats (for when you travel in a seat and stow your wheelchair)

Accessible sleeper accommodations

 

We require that you make reservations for such accommodations on all trains, including on "unreserved trains" (on which reservations for ordinary seats are not required).

Accessible space is limited. Please make your reservation as far in advance of travel as possible.

 

Who May Reserve Accessible Accommodations

 

Up until 14 days prior to the departure of each train from its origin city, reservations for accessible bedrooms may be made only for passengers who are mobility impaired.

After this period, and if all other Deluxe and Family bedrooms have been reserved, accessible bedrooms are made available to all passengers on a first-come, first-served basis. For this reason, we urge you to make your reservations as far in advance of travel as possible.

 

For a party including a qualified person the H room accommodation fare is priced as a Roomette, a non-qualifying party pays Bedroom fare.

 

About Yield Management

Yield Management (so-called "Bucket System") does not require that any fare start at the lowest point.

Actually, "Experts" start at the top and look at trends, holidays, vacations, etc. and try to predict if any empty seats will exist at the peak fare.Remember the idea is to get the greatest revenue. If so, they look at how to fill those empty seats by price reductions. Although Amtrak uses fixed bucket levels, they have been known to offer last minute reductions - after all anything you can get for an otherwise empty seat or room is gravy.

 

[Alice]

Hop scotching across several items: 

The term "wheelchair" is too limited, "Disabled" properly fits the bill.

 

Amtrak's (and generally the ADA regulations) definition to qualify for a disability fare and advance qualification for an "H" room is:

 

Reservation by telephone or at a ticket counter.

Sorry, discounts are not available when you book online.

You must also provide written documentation of disability at the ticket counter and when boarding the train.

 

Acceptable documentation includes:

Transit system ID card

Membership card from a disabilities organization

Letter from a physician

 

When Reservations Are Required

To ensure that you get the space and accommodations you require, you must make a reservation for each of the following:

Wheelchair space

Transfer seats (for when you travel in a seat and stow your wheelchair)

Accessible sleeper accommodations

 

We require that you make reservations for such accommodations on all trains, including on "unreserved trains" (on which reservations for ordinary seats are not required).

Accessible space is limited. Please make your reservation as far in advance of travel as possible.

 

Who May Reserve Accessible Accommodations

 

Up until 14 days prior to the departure of each train from its origin city, reservations for accessible bedrooms may be made only for passengers who are mobility impaired.

After this period, and if all other Deluxe and Family bedrooms have been reserved, accessible bedrooms are made available to all passengers on a first-come, first-served basis. For this reason, we urge you to make your reservations as far in advance of travel as possible.

 

For a party including a qualified person the H room accommodation fare is priced as a Roomette, a non-qualifying party pays Bedroom fare.

 

About Yield Management

Yield Management (so-called "Bucket System") does not require that any fare start at the lowest point.

Actually, "Experts" start at the top and look at trends, holidays, vacations, etc. and try to predict if any empty seats will exist at the peak fare.Remember the idea is to get the greatest revenue. If so, they look at how to fill those empty seats by price reductions. Although Amtrak uses fixed bucket levels, they have been known to offer last minute reductions - after all anything you can get for an otherwise empty seat or room is gravy.

This is good info, especially the parts I don't find on the relevant Amtrak webpage.

I thought criteria for people entitled to ADA protection were much broader than criteria for the H room. For instance, a person with a hearing impairment is qualified for ADA protection. And I can understand the 15% discount. But I do not understand why he or she cannot use a regular roomette. Statistics are all over the map, of course, but it seems to me that if something like 20% of the US population has a disability, and 10% has a severe disability (One source: US Census Press Release), then there are nowhere near enough accessible seats, sleepers, or even parking spots at stations. So, is using ADA definitions Amtrak policy, or is this what happens in practice on account of lack of training or such, or just because it is easier than having a sensible (to me) policy as required by Access Bob's lawsuit that is now expired, as posted by Sky?

I've always wondered about that membership in disability organization qualification. After all, the National Spinal Cord Injury Association (for instance) is very happy to accept anyone who pays dues as members, and many non-disabled family members of people with a SCI do join.

My original question was about how buckets worked on the H room, and you may have given me the answer. Do I understand correctly that as a qualified person, an available H room is priced at the current roomette bucket less 15%? And if (as Had8ley reported) only the top three buckets are available for the H room, then that means the low bucket roomettes have been sold?

 

[had8ley]

Yieldld Management (so-called "Bucket System") does not require that any fare start at the lowest point.Actually, "Experts" start at the top and look at trends, holidays, vacations, etc. and try to predict if any empty seats will exist at the peak fare.Remember the idea is to get the greatest revenue. If so, they look at how to fill those empty seats by price reductions. Although Amtrak uses fixed bucket levels, they have been known to offer last minute reductions - after all anything you can get for an otherwise empty seat or room is gravy My original question was about how buckets worked on the H room, and you may have given me the answer. Do I understand correctly that as a qualified person, an available H room is priced at the current roomette bucket less 15%? And if (as Had8ley reported) only the top three buckets are available for the H room, then that means the low bucket roomettes have been sold?

Good question. We just happened to look at the other rooms in the sleeper on several different dates. There were days where only one or two roomettes were sold and the "H" room was at the middle bucket. I think the "expert" blurb above pretty much explains the situation.(The "H" room stands by itself in pricing and does not change unless Amtrak decides to lower the required bucket to purchase it or the 14 day rule kicks in.) And remember; it is the largest room in the Viewliners and there is only one to any sleeper car whether it be Superliner or Viewliner.

Now I have a question; what bucket does an on board upgrade draw from. I know it's been posted but I can't find it. If it's the highest bucket then 50% might be more than the lowest bucket. Anybody help me out here?

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

We require that you make reservations for such accommodations on all trains, including on "unreserved trains" (on which reservations for ordinary seats are not required).Accessible space is limited. Please make your reservation as far in advance of travel as possible.

Does Amtrak keep any statistics that would help to determine whether the current car configurations have an adequate percentage of their space accessible, or whether new equipment Amtrak orders in the future ought to have more accessible space?

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Now I have a question; what bucket does an on board upgrade draw from. I know it's been posted but I can't find it. If it's the highest bucket then 50% might be more than the lowest bucket. Anybody help me out here?

Low bucket accomodation charge.

I'm not sure whether any difference between the low bucket coach railfare and the railfare you actually paid can be applied towards that low bucket accomodation charge, though. I seem to recall this being discussed, and Amtrak having at some point closed some loophole that could have made on board upgrades almost free in some cases. (Maybe it's that the minimum upgrade fee is something like $50, and other than that you get to apply the railfare bucket difference towards the low bucket sleeper?)

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

From what the person who granted me access to Amtrak's computer said it looks like there are five buckets set up for most sleeper rooms but only the upper three have availability no matter how far you go into the future.

I wonder if perhaps the software was designed with the idea that there would always be five buckets, but then Amtrak decided they only felt like using three for now. It's probably easier to enter 0s for the number of rooms available at the lowest two buckets than it is to rewrite the software to show only three buckets. (And that ``easier'' also includes the risk of introducing bugs that cause massive subtle problems if the programmers miss any subtle details; it's not purely laziness, it's also a matter that not making unnecessary changes to the system increases reliability.)

 

[JAChooChoo]

I thought criteria for people entitled to ADA protection were much broader than criteria for the H room. For instance, a person with a hearing impairment is qualified for ADA protection. And I can understand the 15% discount. But I do not understand why he or she cannot use a regular roomette. Statistics are all over the map, of course, but it seems to me that if something like 20% of the US population has a disability, and 10% has a severe disability (One source:...........

The operative category here is 'Mobility Impaired' per ADA regs.

 

[Tony]

For instance, a person with a hearing impairment is qualified for ADA protection. And I can understand the 15% discount. But I do not understand why he or she cannot use a regular roomette.

Excellent point, and quite consistent with my own feelings.

I thought the design for the H room, was to accommodate a wheelchair. If one's disability doesn't necessitate the use of a wheelchair while in one's room, then the H room isn't for that passenger.

 

[Alice]

For instance, a person with a hearing impairment is qualified for ADA protection. And I can understand the 15% discount. But I do not understand why he or she cannot use a regular roomette.

Excellent point, and quite consistent with my own feelings.

I thought the design for the H room, was to accommodate a wheelchair. If one's disability doesn't necessitate the use of a wheelchair while in one's room, then the H room isn't for that passenger.

I agree with this to some extent. The problem is that here in the west, with our 2-story train cars, roomettes are all up a steep flight of stairs that many non-wheelers have difficulty with. Personally, I think they should get another downstairs compartment at the H room price, leaving the H room for wheelers, but I know I'm dreaming. (Same as I'm dreaming that able-bodied people don't fraudulently reserve the H room or park in blue zones.)

 

[sky12065]

For instance, a person with a hearing impairment is qualified for ADA protection. And I can understand the 15% discount. But I do not understand why he or she cannot use a regular roomette.

Excellent point, and quite consistent with my own feelings.

I thought the design for the H room, was to accommodate a wheelchair. If one's disability doesn't necessitate the use of a wheelchair while in one's room, then the H room isn't for that passenger.

Excuse me, but your last statement is absolutely wrong. The design is to be able to accomodate the room necessary to store or manuver a wheel chair within it's space. But it is far from excluding others that don't need an actual wheel chair. I frequently use a mobility scooter, but it's not always as practical to use as a wheel chair on a train or when reaching a destination. Storage or transport of a scooter is not as easy or simple as a wheel chair is.

So by stating that "If one's disability doesn't necessitate the use of a wheelchair while in one's room," you are effectively telling me that I, and most likely some others shouldn't travel by Amtrak and we have as much right as anyone including those in a wheel chair to avail ourselves of Amtraks services!

I'm not going to go into my complete personal medical and physical situation because it's no one elses business except on a need to know basis! But if there were no H room, I would simply NOT be able to travel on Amtrak: not in a bedroom; not in a roomette, not in the family room and not even in coach seating.

We ALL need to understand that life is not always a what-you-see is what-you-get package. There are life situations people have that makes life difficult, that many never complain about and that many others do not know of or will ever know about, understand or even imagine, and that includes me too!

 

[Tony]

So by stating that "If one's disability doesn't necessitate the use of a wheelchair while in one's room," you are effectively telling me that I, and most likely some others shouldn't travel by Amtrak and we have as much right as anyone including those in a wheel chair to avail ourselves of Amtraks services!
I'm not going to go into my complete personal medical and physical situation because it's no one elses business except on a need to know basis! But if there were no H room, I would simply NOT be able to travel on Amtrak: not in a bedroom; not in a roomette, not in the family room and not even in coach seating.

We ALL need to understand that life is not always a what-you-see is what-you-get package. There are life situations people have that makes life difficult, that many never complain about and that many others do not know of or will ever know about, understand or even imagine, and that includes me too!

Sorry, but stand by my statement, 100%.

If your disability does not require the use of a wheelchair, then you don't require the H room, period. The extra floor space, is only to accommodate a wheelchair, and that's it.

I am sorry that you have some other type of disability, that makes life difficult for you, but that doesn't entitle you to special treatment, especially when such treatment (ie, room for an onboard wheelchair) isn't required by your disability.

 

[Alice]

So by stating that "If one's disability doesn't necessitate the use of a wheelchair while in one's room," you are effectively telling me that I, and most likely some others shouldn't travel by Amtrak and we have as much right as anyone including those in a wheel chair to avail ourselves of Amtraks services!
I'm not going to go into my complete personal medical and physical situation because it's no one elses business except on a need to know basis! But if there were no H room, I would simply NOT be able to travel on Amtrak: not in a bedroom; not in a roomette, not in the family room and not even in coach seating.

We ALL need to understand that life is not always a what-you-see is what-you-get package. There are life situations people have that makes life difficult, that many never complain about and that many others do not know of or will ever know about, understand or even imagine, and that includes me too!

Sorry, but stand by my statement, 100%.

If your disability does not require the use of a wheelchair, then you don't require the H room, period. The extra floor space, is only to accommodate a wheelchair, and that's it.

I am sorry that you have some other type of disability, that makes life difficult for you, but that doesn't entitle you to special treatment, especially when such treatment (ie, room for an onboard wheelchair) isn't required by your disability.

The H room has other access features besides floor space, such as elevated toilet and grab bars. Accessible features including but not limited to these ought to be available in more sleeper rooms and in more "inaccessible" toilets and showers so that people with disabilities who need features other than floor space can comfortably and safely use the rest of the train.

Joel asked about surveys to assess how much accessible space is needed. I don't know about that, except that people with disabilities is a high growth demographic on account of aging baby boomers. So what is needed is a flexible design where space can serve anyone, ie universal design. I've only been on an Acela once, but I kind of recall being able to fit down the aisle to any seat, besides having dedicated wheelchair space. Now, if all of the aisle seats had movable armrests, then all of them would be suitable for a wheeler to transfer to, and they'd still be available for any able-bodied person to use. I kind of recall I couldn't go between cars on the Acela, though. This should be do-able, especially in new construction, because there are excursion trains all over the country where I can move between retrofitted cars. The Napa Wine Train is one example. And those dedicated wheelchair spots with no seats? Clearly they could have a folding arrangement (like the San Diegan or many local transit train cars and buses) so they could be sold to ambulators should no wheelers need those spots.