How Should Amtrak Change the Sunset?

[Daniel]

Now with the significant addition of capacity west of El Paso and with a much better timekeeping, should and can Amtrak change the Sunset Limited's schedule back to its pre-Katrina times, where it would connect to the Coast Starlight in Los Angeles? I read somewhere that about a quarter of its passengers in LA were transfers from the Starlight, and losing that connection means lost ridership.

Assuming the freight railroads agree, how would you change its schedules to maximize ridership? What about service east of New Orleans? Remember, even at its best, it took the train 18 hours to travel NO - Orlando, so keep that in mind when proposing a "day train."

 

[SUNSETLIMITED01]

Now with the significant addition of capacity west of El Paso and with a much better timekeeping, should and can Amtrak change the Sunset Limited's schedule back to its pre-Katrina times, where it would connect to the Coast Starlight in Los Angeles? I read somewhere that about a quarter of its passengers in LA were transfers from the Starlight, and losing that connection means lost ridership.
Assuming the freight railroads agree, how would you change its schedules to maximize ridership? What about service east of New Orleans? Remember, even at its best, it took the train 18 hours to travel NO - Orlando, so keep that in mind when proposing a "day train."

For a day train the Sunset would have to leave New Orleans at 12:00 AM and arrive in Orlando at 6:00 P.M. if it's lucky that is. For a proper connection the Sunset should leave at 10:30 P.M., which would give the Coast Starlight about hour thirty minutes to get to LAX. It would be very helpful if someone had a sechedule of the Sunset in 2004 or 2005.

 

[GG-1]

Now with the significant addition of capacity west of El Paso and with a much better timekeeping, should and can Amtrak change the Sunset Limited's schedule back to its pre-Katrina times, where it would connect to the Coast Starlight in Los Angeles? I read somewhere that about a quarter of its passengers in LA were transfers from the Starlight, and losing that connection means lost ridership.
Assuming the freight railroads agree, how would you change its schedules to maximize ridership? What about service east of New Orleans? Remember, even at its best, it took the train 18 hours to travel NO - Orlando, so keep that in mind when proposing a "day train."

For a day train the Sunset would have to leave New Orleans at 12:00 AM and arrive in Orlando at 6:00 P.M. if it's lucky that is. For a proper connection the Sunset should leave at 10:30 P.M., which would give the Coast Starlight about hour thirty minutes to get to LAX. It would be very helpful if someone had a sechedule of the Sunset in 2004 or 2005.

Aloha

Not exactly sure what you are looking for here.

Back when I rode the Sunset Limited from Orlando we left some where around 5:00pm. It was on time (relatively) most of the way. We were due into LA Around 6:30AM, a delay in ?(in California) for a faulty switch got us to LA around 10:00AM

If this is what you are thinking I can find out the year as I attended a convention at the Disney World convention center in July??

 

[daveyb99]

From APRIL 2004

#1

ORL / dp 1345

NOL / ar 0920 +1

NOL / dp 1155

LAX / ar 0640 +3

connect

#14

LAX / dp 1015

#11

LAX / ar 2100

connect

#2

LAX / dp 2215

NOL / ar 2030 +2

NOL / dp 2230

ORL / ar 2045 +3

 

[SUNSETLIMITED01]

From APRIL 2004
#1

ORL / dp 1345

NOL / ar 0920 +1

NOL / dp 1155

LAX / ar 0640 +3

connect

#14

LAX / dp 1015

#11

LAX / ar 2100

connect

#2

LAX / dp 2215

NOL / ar 2030 +2

NOL / dp 2230

ORL / ar 2045 +3

Being honest with you I cannot tell if this is P.M. or A.M.

 

[JeffConn]

From APRIL 2004
#1

ORL / dp 1345

NOL / ar 0920 +1

NOL / dp 1155

LAX / ar 0640 +3

connect

#14

LAX / dp 1015

#11

LAX / ar 2100

connect

#2

LAX / dp 2215

NOL / ar 2030 +2

NOL / dp 2230

ORL / ar 2045 +3

Being honest with you I cannot tell if this is P.M. or A.M.

It looks to me like a 24 hour clock. :huh:

 

[henryj]

Some examples of scheduling and proposals can be found here. http://groups.google.com/group/sunset-limited-west?hl=en

The schedule needs to be restored to it's pre-Katrina timing and it needs to run daily.

 

[Guest]

Daily service...

 

[Shanghai]

I would like to see the Sunset Limited restored to LA to Orlando service.

Has the tracks from NOL to Orlando been repaired? If so, what's the problem?

 

[AlanB]

Has the tracks from NOL to Orlando been repaired? If so, what's the problem?

The tracks were repaired 6 months after Katrina hit, CSX gave Amtrak the go ahead way back then to restore the Sunset to Orlando.

Amtrak doesn't want to restore service because they don't want to have to pay for it. They've been trying to hold the three states that the train runs through hostage and get them to help pay for the service.

 

[SUNSETLIMITED01]

Has the tracks from NOL to Orlando been repaired? If so, what's the problem?

The tracks were repaired 6 months after Katrina hit, CSX gave Amtrak the go ahead way back then to restore the Sunset to Orlando.

Amtrak doesn't want to restore service because they don't want to have to pay for it. They've been trying to hold the three states that the train runs through hostage and get them to help pay for the service.

Well now the route is slowly recovering. As a matter of fact yesterday the Sunset arrived in New Orleans running 1 hour and 31 minutes early. Well I don't know how it will do with an additional 769 miles of track going east towards Orlando on the CSX tracks, we will just have to wait and see. Today's Sunset Limited arrived in Los Angeles running about 5 hours and 36 minutes late. Don't know what happen there.

 

[Guest_Ben_*]

Here is a schedule that I propose, based on the 2000 schedule (before all that padding was added), with the eastbound basically flip-flopped and the westbound operating 8 hours later-

#2 #1

10:00 AM LAX 3:00PM

6:30PM Maricopa 8:40AM

8:30PM Tucson 6:40AM

3:00AM El Paso 12:30AM

3:30PM Ar. San Antonio 1:30PM

4:30PM Dp. 12:30PM

10:00PM Houston 7:30AM

7:00AM Ar. NOL 9:30PM

8:30AM Dp. 7:30PM

11:30AM Mobile 4:00PM

2:00PM Pensacola 1:30PM

8:00PM Tallahassee 8:30AM

Midnight Jacksonville 6:30AM

3:30AM Orlando 3:00AM

9:00AM Miami 9:50PM

You lose the Coast Starlight and San Joaquin connections in CA and the through cars with the TE in San Antonio, but you gain a MAJOR connection with the Crescent (there is a major market from the Southwest going to Atlanta/Charlotte/Northeast) and you have daylight service through the Gulf Coast. Orlando would be served in the middle of the night, but extending it to Miami could provide good times there, as well as a same-day turn of equipment from #2 to #1.

Comments about this schedule that I have proposed?

 

[darien-l]

Back when I lived in Tucson, the Sunset was extremely convenient for trips to LA: departing Tucson in the evening, arriving LA early morning, and, on the way back, departing LA in the evening and arriving Tucson in the morning. At about 9 hours each way, it was perfect for getting a good night's sleep, taking a shower, having breakfast, and arriving at the destination relaxed, refreshed, and ready to go. I used the Sunset quite a few times for both personal and business trips. Sadly, this convenient schedule was messed with a few years back, and now the return trip from LA departs in the afternoon and arrives Tucson in the middle of the night. With the recent track and on-time improvements, I'd love to see the old schedule return!

(As an aside, this is something I really want to see from Amtrak in the future: night trains taking 8-12 hours between city pairs. If service is realiable, it can eventually become popular with business travelers: downtown-to-downtown service offering a good night's sleep, breakfast, showers, and an early start to the day could be a big draw. The popularity of Twilight Shoreliner is a testament to that.)

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

Here is a schedule that I propose, based on the 2000 schedule (before all that padding was added), with the eastbound basically flip-flopped and the westbound operating 8 hours later-
#2 #1

10:00 AM LAX 3:00PM

6:30PM Maricopa 8:40AM

8:30PM Tucson 6:40AM

3:00AM El Paso 12:30AM

3:30PM Ar. San Antonio 1:30PM

4:30PM Dp. 12:30PM

10:00PM Houston 7:30AM

7:00AM Ar. NOL 9:30PM

8:30AM Dp. 7:30PM

11:30AM Mobile 4:00PM

2:00PM Pensacola 1:30PM

8:00PM Tallahassee 8:30AM

Midnight Jacksonville 6:30AM

3:30AM Orlando 3:00AM

9:00AM Miami 9:50PM

You lose the Coast Starlight and San Joaquin connections in CA and the through cars with the TE in San Antonio, but you gain a MAJOR connection with the Crescent (there is a major market from the Southwest going to Atlanta/Charlotte/Northeast) and you have daylight service through the Gulf Coast. Orlando would be served in the middle of the night, but extending it to Miami could provide good times there, as well as a same-day turn of equipment from #2 to #1.

Comments about this schedule that I have proposed?

1) Night service at ORL= not a very good idea, though it would at least be a one seat ride from the West to get there. But JAX times would be a bit better for ORL as it would have a half way reasonable early AM 0630 departure to the West, and a midnight arrival from the West which is not a terrible arrival time in a city such as ORL. But that would put all the stops earlier by three hours killing some of that daylight service on the Gulf Coast, create a longer layover for the Crescent connection, and definitely screw with Tri-Rail in South FL. And even still that move might pose problems with a rush hour departure out of LAX (I would think there is some portion commuter rail it would interfere with).

2) Tri-Rail in South Florida would most likely have a problem with #2 traversing the Tr-Rail Corridor during the morning rush hour when their trains are at their peak in order to arrive at MIA at 0900. It would need to stop at WPB more into the middle of the AM or so, but enough ahead of #91 and #97 in the early PM.

3) Unless they were to split OBS crews at NOL (like they did when it went to MIA before by staffing the Eastern portion with a NOL OBS crew), this schedule does not give the LAX OBS crew any kind of "off the train at hotel" rest with a same day turnaround. That is a very long trip (LAX-MIA) one way, and it is very different and tiring when you work it!

4) Personally, I believe it is very important idea to restore the connection with the "Starlight" in both directions for obvious reasons.

Question for you....

Would this be proposed as daily service (if equipment could be secured) or as tri-weekly? The reason I say that is those not so great times in certain stations as well as the loss of some connections might be a decent trade off for daily service.

OBS gone freight...

 

[henryj]

Here is a schedule that I propose, based on the 2000 schedule (before all that padding was added), with the eastbound basically flip-flopped and the westbound operating 8 hours later-
#2 #1

10:00 AM LAX 3:00PM

6:30PM Maricopa 8:40AM

8:30PM Tucson 6:40AM

3:00AM El Paso 12:30AM

3:30PM Ar. San Antonio 1:30PM

4:30PM Dp. 12:30PM

10:00PM Houston 7:30AM

7:00AM Ar. NOL 9:30PM

8:30AM Dp. 7:30PM

11:30AM Mobile 4:00PM

2:00PM Pensacola 1:30PM

8:00PM Tallahassee 8:30AM

Midnight Jacksonville 6:30AM

3:30AM Orlando 3:00AM

9:00AM Miami 9:50PM

You lose the Coast Starlight and San Joaquin connections in CA and the through cars with the TE in San Antonio, but you gain a MAJOR connection with the Crescent (there is a major market from the Southwest going to Atlanta/Charlotte/Northeast) and you have daylight service through the Gulf Coast. Orlando would be served in the middle of the night, but extending it to Miami could provide good times there, as well as a same-day turn of equipment from #2 to #1.

Comments about this schedule that I have proposed?

I worked up a schedule something like this some time ago and was just lambasted by the Texas Eagle people because it broke the connection in SA. At one time in it's history the SP operated the Sunset overnight between NO and HOU westbound, but never eastbound. The thoery behind this for me is that the train is excruciatingly slow between Houston and New Orleans so why not just run that section overnight. I had the Sunset terminate in NO however and left the train to Florida on the schedule of the former Gulf Wind with an evening departure from NO and a morning arrival in JAX and Orlando in the afternoon. Westbound was the same with an afternoon departure from Orlando and a morning arrival in NO. This makes it necessary to layover in NO for the day, but NO it s good place to layover. The problem with your schedule is it arrives and departs from Orlando around 3AM. Orlando is the primary destination for this train as Orlando attracts over 50 million tourist a year. Trying to serve it in the wee hours of the morning is unacceptable. As for the Eagle connection, I would have it connect in El Paso traveling over the UP's Baird Sub. This is all just dreaming of course. The best solution short term is to get the Sunset back on it's pre-katrina schedule and daily. The NO to Florida schedule can be handled with a separate train. I know everyone wants the Sunset back in Florida but it's just not pratical because of the constant delays on that route and the slow schedule of almost 20 hours to get from NO to Orlando when you can drive it in 10.

 

[Guest_Ben_*]

With Orlando being such a sticking point, I have readjusted the schedule to serve it at better times. However, #2 will arrive NO 2 hours later, which would break the connection with the Crescent. Does anybody know if Amtrak is allowed to change the eastbound Crescent's schedule about 3 hours later, or is there a contract with LIRR where it can't go into NY Penn during rush hour, as it would arrive there around 5PM? Also, where is the best scenery along the route? I would imagine the Beaumont Hill area in CA, Pecos River, Almestad Lake, Huey Long Bridge, and especially the Gulf Coast area would be highlights, are they not?

#2 #1

Noon LAX 7:00PM

8:30PM Maricopa 12:40PM

10:30PM Tucson 10:40AM

5:00AM El Paso 4:30AM

5:30PM Ar. San Antonio 5:30PM

6:30PM Dp. 4:30PM

Midnight Houston 11:30AM

9:00AM Ar. NOL 12:30AM

11:30AM Dp. 11:30PM

2:30AM Mobile 8:00PM

5:00PM Pensacola 5:30PM

11:00PM Tallahassee 12:30PM

3:00AM Jacksonville 10:30AM

6:30AM Orlando 7:00AM

The Sunset's reliability seems to have changed for the better, with double tracking west of El Paso and much better dispatching by UP, which allows for the padding added to be taken off. Remember also, that Amtrak added about 3.5 hours on the eastern segment as well after 2000. I am basing this schedule on the hope that CSX has improved their act as well.

The loss of the through-cars on the TE, while not desired, is overcome by the gain of the connection with the Crescent, as that connection to Atlanta and the Northeast should produce a lot of new ridership. As it currently stands, the "connection" currently is already lost anyways, as one has to wait the night on the TE through San Antonio.

Having taken this into mind, would this schedule be even better than the pre-Katrina one?

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

It's me but I don't follow what the table is saying. Are the times on the Left east bound and the times on the right westbound?

Nor do I understand, why the arrival of a train in NY would be an issue. With the number of platforms and the significant reduction of traffic there should be major excess capacity. As a teen I used to sit behind the Station and Post office to watch the trains arriving and departing through the Hudson tunnels. Those beautiful Tuscon 5 strip G's and Cars with the black roof, Tuscon body and all their stripes, with gold lettering came through, about every 3 minutes. I seem to remember the station had 44 tracks. And the middle platforms were long enough to hold 2 trains at a time. Back in the '60's it was a busy place.

Mahalo for bringing a little of my youth back. My saying; Da* I grew old, but at least I didn't grow up!

Eric

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

Aloha
It's me but I don't follow what the table is saying. Are the times on the Left east bound and the times on the right westbound?

Nor do I understand, why the arrival of a train in NY would be an issue. With the number of platforms and the significant reduction of traffic there should be major excess capacity. As a teen I used to sit behind the Station and Post office to watch the trains arriving and departing through the Hudson tunnels. Those beautiful Tuscon 5 strip G's and Cars with the black roof, Tuscon body and all their stripes, with gold lettering came through, about every 3 minutes. I seem to remember the station had 44 tracks. And the middle platforms were long enough to hold 2 trains at a time. Back in the '60's it was a busy place.

Mahalo for bringing a little of my youth back. My saying; Da* I grew old, but at least I didn't grow up!

Eric

That would be correct, Eric. He is showing Eastbound to the left and West bound read upwards to the right. It just doesn't look very clear with the way he has the train numbers posted above it.

It appears he is proposing an adjustment to the Crescent's schedule to arrive in NYC a bit later. However, NS most likely would go for it to begin with being the amount of freight on their portion of the line. That would be why he is asking what effects it may have in NYC. I'll answer that with the fact that it would not be a good idea, and probably would be greeted with opposition up there. The reason the long distance trains do not utilize platform time at NYP during rush hour is they end up keeping a badly needed platform tied up for the whole time it is in NYP. It takes a little more time for the long distance trains to do their business in NYP, especially trains which are starting out a trip. But it still takes a bit longer for the inbound trains to do their business as well. There are some platforms the long distance trains just cannot use, there. All that said, NYP just cannot afford to have a platform tied up during rush hour with all the commuter traffic up that way. I have seen commuter trains pull up behind an inbound long distance train which was getting ready to leave in cases of a ruch hour arrival (due to lateness).

OBS gone freight...

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

Maybe this will make Ben's schedule a little easier to read....

Read downwards for EB and read upwards for WB

#2 EB---------Station----------#1 WB

Noon-------LAX-----------------7:00PM

8:30PM----Maricopa-----------12:40PM

10:30PM---Tucson------------ 10:40AM

5:00AM---- El Paso------------4:30AM

5:30PM--- Ar. San Antonio--- 5:30PM

6:30PM--- Dp. San Antonio--- 4:30PM

Midnight-- Houston------------ 11:30AM

9:00AM--- Ar. NOL------------ 12:30AM

11:30AM-- Dp. NOL----------- 11:30PM

2:30AM----Mobile-------------- 8:00PM

5:00PM---- Pensacola--------- 5:30PM

11:00PM-- Tallahassee-------- 12:30PM

3:00AM--- Jacksonville------- 10:30AM

6:30AM--- Orlando------------ 7:00AM

OBS gone freight.... courtesy of guest poster Ben.....

 

[GG-1]

Mahalo OBS

Now it make sense sort of but as Orlando is almost only a Vacation destination the schedule there would be inconvenient.

A train to Orland would have the best ridership if it Arrives around 9:00am and departed around 5 :00pm allowing the most efficient check in/out times for the Area hotels.

Leaving Orlando at 5:00pm has it arriving at 7:00am LA. Leaving LA at 3:30 am is not good however so not sure how that could be fixed, nor do I understand what conditions in between those cities could be affected.

Now for NYC, the Book Passenger Terminals and Trains by John A. Droege copyright 1916, list the station having 11 Platforms serving 21 tracks and lists the Hudson tunnels as having a capacity of 144 trains per hour. The Station Capacity was listed as 1000 trains per day 40% Long Island and 60% Pennsylvania. It adds elsewhere that the station was having 334 trains in and out with 210 being the LIRR. It seems to me that changing one train time would be almost unnoticeable to such a large station, unless that capacity was lost by the passenger waiting area change when the Arena, Madison Square Garden was built. I have never seen any reference to track removal at that station.

Aloha

Eric

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Now for NYC, the Book Passenger Terminals and Trains by John A. Droege copyright 1916, list the station having 11 Platforms serving 21 tracks and lists the Hudson tunnels as having a capacity of 144 trains per hour.

There have only ever been two tracks under the Hudson River that run into Penn Station, right? That would seem to imply that the book is saying that they ran 72 trains per track per hour, which would be a train every 50 seconds. That makes me wonder if they may have been less conservative about having enough space to stop without a collision if something went wrong.

 

[henryj]

re they not?
#2 #1

Noon LAX 7:00PM

8:30PM Maricopa 12:40PM

10:30PM Tucson 10:40AM

5:00AM El Paso 4:30AM

5:30PM Ar. San Antonio 5:30PM

6:30PM Dp. 4:30PM

Midnight Houston 11:30AM

9:00AM Ar. NOL 12:30AM

11:30AM Dp. 11:30PM

2:30AM Mobile 8:00PM

5:00PM Pensacola 5:30PM

11:00PM Tallahassee 12:30PM

3:00AM Jacksonville 10:30AM

6:30AM Orlando 7:00AM

Having taken this into mind, would this schedule be even better than the pre-Katrina one?

I hate to burst your bubble but that is a terrible schedule. One has to take into account the population of the cities served and/or their tourist draw. The Sunset crosses 2,000 miles currently and almost 2,800 to get to Florida. In all that distance it only serves a few population centers of note mainly LAX(12mil)Phenix/Tucson(5mil), El Paso(.7mil), San Antonio(2mil), Houston(5.5mil), New Orleans(1.3mil), Jacksonville(1.3mil) and Orlando(2.6mil). You have to hit as many of those during decent hours as you can. Going through Houston at midnight and NOL at 12:30AM just won't cut it.

First choice is restore the pre-katrina schedule as it did a pretty good job. Otherwise try this:

#2 #1

8:10AM Lv LAX Arr 4:45PM

4:54PM Lv Maricopa Lv 9:15AM

8:09PM Lv Tucson Lv 7:30AM

2:50AM Lv El Paso Lv 12:30AM

4:05PM Arr San Antonio Lv 12:15PM

4:45PM Lv San Antonio Arr 11:35AM

9:20PM Lv Houston Lv 7:20AM

6:30AM Arr NOL Lv 10:00PM

5:00PM Lv NOL Arr 8:20AM

8:50PM Lv Mobile Lv 4:20AM

11:50PM Lv Pensacola Lv 1:40AM

5:50AM Lv Tallahassee Lv 9:30PM

10:35AM Lv Jacksonville Lv 5:30PM

2:20PM Arr Orlando Lv 1:40PM

This schedule serves all major metro areas during decent hours except El Paso which has the least population. It connects with your Crescent and allows a layover in NOL before continuing on to Florida on a separate train with the same on the return. The Sunset turns in NOL thus not tying up it's valuable equipment in the NOL to Florida quagmire. It also frees up Amtrak to use whatever type of equipment they have available for the NOL to Florida train. The Eagle connection would move to El Paso or else require an overnight layover in San Antonio. It's never on time anyway. This schedule now provides Houston-San Antonio with a morning and an afternoon train that run at more respectable times. It makes the Tucson/Phoenix-LAX a day train. They could add a second train on that route offering overnight service if traffic justified it. I have always thought it offered the best of all worlds, but then that is just me.

 

[had8ley]

re they not?
#2 #1

Noon LAX 7:00PM

8:30PM Maricopa 12:40PM

10:30PM Tucson 10:40AM

5:00AM El Paso 4:30AM

5:30PM Ar. San Antonio 5:30PM

6:30PM Dp. 4:30PM

Midnight Houston 11:30AM

9:00AM Ar. NOL 12:30AM

11:30AM Dp. 11:30PM

2:30AM Mobile 8:00PM

5:00PM Pensacola 5:30PM

11:00PM Tallahassee 12:30PM

3:00AM Jacksonville 10:30AM

6:30AM Orlando 7:00AM

Having taken this into mind, would this schedule be even better than the pre-Katrina one?

I hate to burst your bubble but that is a terrible schedule. One has to take into account the population of the cities served and/or their tourist draw. The Sunset crosses 2,000 miles currently and almost 2,800 to get to Florida. In all that distance it only serves a few population centers of note mainly LAX(12mil)Phenix/Tucson(5mil), El Paso(.7mil), San Antonio(2mil), Houston(5.5mil), New Orleans(1.3mil), Jacksonville(1.3mil) and Orlando(2.6mil). You have to hit as many of those during decent hours as you can. Going through Houston at midnight and NOL at 12:30AM just won't cut it.

First choice is restore the pre-katrina schedule as it did a pretty good job. Otherwise try this:

#2 #1

8:10AM Lv LAX Arr 4:45PM

4:54PM Lv Maricopa Lv 9:15AM

8:09PM Lv Tucson Lv 7:30AM

2:50AM Lv El Paso Lv 12:30AM

4:05PM Arr San Antonio Lv 12:15PM

4:45PM Lv San Antonio Arr 11:35AM

9:20PM Lv Houston Lv 7:20AM

6:30AM Arr NOL Lv 10:00PM

5:00PM Lv NOL Arr 8:20AM

8:50PM Lv Mobile Lv 4:20AM

11:50PM Lv Pensacola Lv 1:40AM

5:50AM Lv Tallahassee Lv 9:30PM

10:35AM Lv Jacksonville Lv 5:30PM

2:20PM Arr Orlando Lv 1:40PM

This schedule serves all major metro areas during decent hours except El Paso which has the least population. It connects with your Crescent and allows a layover in NOL before continuing on to Florida on a separate train with the same on the return. The Sunset turns in NOL thus not tying up it's valuable equipment in the NOL to Florida quagmire. It also frees up Amtrak to use whatever type of equipment they have available for the NOL to Florida train. The Eagle connection would move to El Paso or else require an overnight layover in San Antonio. It's never on time anyway. This schedule now provides Houston-San Antonio with a morning and an afternoon train that run at more respectable times. It makes the Tucson/Phoenix-LAX a day train. They could add a second train on that route offering overnight service if traffic justified it. I have always thought it offered the best of all worlds, but then that is just me.

Unless Amtrak went daily to Orlando I'm afraid they would balk at both schedules. There is no time to service or turn the equipment leaving a trainset sitting 24 hours.

 

[AlanB]

Does anybody know if Amtrak is allowed to change the eastbound Crescent's schedule about 3 hours later, or is there a contract with LIRR where it can't go into NY Penn during rush hour, as it would arrive there around 5PM?

The LIRR really has no say on what trains Amtrak can run into Penn Station, as Amtrak owns the station, not the LIRR.

Now that said, the LIRR is allowed a certain number of trains per day into Penn and Amtrak can't alter that number to fit an extra Amtrak train into the station.

The limiting factor here hower is the Hudson River tunnels, which are at capacity during rush hour (IIRC 22 trains per hour) and platform space as mentioned by OBS. Tying up a platform during rush hour with a long distance train isn't exactly perferable, but Amtrak has done so in the past. The LSL used to depart much closer to rush hour than it does now, and in fact in NYC some actually consider 4:30 PM to be the start of rush hour.

 

[MrFSS]

. . . and in fact in NYC some actually consider 4:30 PM to be the start of rush hour.

I thought it was always rush hour in The City. :lol: :lol: