How Should Amtrak Change the Sunset?

[sldispatcher]

I'd like to see the sunset limited go El Paso - Dallas - Houston - New Orleans

Use a different train set to take care of new orleans - Florida

Keep trainsets separate to protect super late traffic; perhaps different schedule...could even extend to Houston/San Antonio per the schedule above.

I think the CCC would be great for this train...the Gulf Coast Flyer or bring back the Panama Limited name

Let the Eagle go on it's present course to San Antone and/or continue to El Paso and LA while connecting providing connecting cars on appropriate days as well.

(My dream train would be a New orleans - Dallas - Denver - spokane -Sea/Portland train - but that is a whole nother topic)

 

[henryj]

re they not?
#2 #1

Noon LAX 7:00PM

8:30PM Maricopa 12:40PM

10:30PM Tucson 10:40AM

5:00AM El Paso 4:30AM

5:30PM Ar. San Antonio 5:30PM

6:30PM Dp. 4:30PM

Midnight Houston 11:30AM

9:00AM Ar. NOL 12:30AM

11:30AM Dp. 11:30PM

2:30AM Mobile 8:00PM

5:00PM Pensacola 5:30PM

11:00PM Tallahassee 12:30PM

3:00AM Jacksonville 10:30AM

6:30AM Orlando 7:00AM

Having taken this into mind, would this schedule be even better than the pre-Katrina one?

I hate to burst your bubble but that is a terrible schedule. One has to take into account the population of the cities served and/or their tourist draw. The Sunset crosses 2,000 miles currently and almost 2,800 to get to Florida. In all that distance it only serves a few population centers of note mainly LAX(12mil)Phenix/Tucson(5mil), El Paso(.7mil), San Antonio(2mil), Houston(5.5mil), New Orleans(1.3mil), Jacksonville(1.3mil) and Orlando(2.6mil). You have to hit as many of those during decent hours as you can. Going through Houston at midnight and NOL at 12:30AM just won't cut it.

First choice is restore the pre-katrina schedule as it did a pretty good job. Otherwise try this:

#2 #1

8:10AM Lv LAX Arr 4:45PM

4:54PM Lv Maricopa Lv 9:15AM

8:09PM Lv Tucson Lv 7:30AM

2:50AM Lv El Paso Lv 12:30AM

4:05PM Arr San Antonio Lv 12:15PM

4:45PM Lv San Antonio Arr 11:35AM

9:20PM Lv Houston Lv 7:20AM

6:30AM Arr NOL Lv 10:00PM

5:00PM Lv NOL Arr 8:20AM

8:50PM Lv Mobile Lv 4:20AM

11:50PM Lv Pensacola Lv 1:40AM

5:50AM Lv Tallahassee Lv 9:30PM

10:35AM Lv Jacksonville Lv 5:30PM

2:20PM Arr Orlando Lv 1:40PM

This schedule serves all major metro areas during decent hours except El Paso which has the least population. It connects with your Crescent and allows a layover in NOL before continuing on to Florida on a separate train with the same on the return. The Sunset turns in NOL thus not tying up it's valuable equipment in the NOL to Florida quagmire. It also frees up Amtrak to use whatever type of equipment they have available for the NOL to Florida train. The Eagle connection would move to El Paso or else require an overnight layover in San Antonio. It's never on time anyway. This schedule now provides Houston-San Antonio with a morning and an afternoon train that run at more respectable times. It makes the Tucson/Phoenix-LAX a day train. They could add a second train on that route offering overnight service if traffic justified it. I have always thought it offered the best of all worlds, but then that is just me.

Unless Amtrak went daily to Orlando I'm afraid they would balk at both schedules. There is no time to service or turn the equipment leaving a trainset sitting 24 hours.

Actually Amtrak doesn't seem to be bothered by that as they currently layover the Sunset equipment in NOL for 3 days before returning it. That is because it is supposed to be going on to Orlando but it doesn't. In LAX they layover the equipment for 28 hours because they can't turn it in the current 10:10AM to 2:30PM time frame. Because of the time and distance it will always take three trains sets to protect the NOL to Orlando train if it's run daily. With the current inefficient timing of the Sunset they are using 4 train sets to protect a 3 times a week schedule. With 5 sets and a decent schedule they could run it daily LAX to NOL. It's just more nonsense from Amtrak. If you only have two sets to protect the NOL to Florida train then it has to terminate in JAX and use the NY-Miami trains to connect with the rest of Florida.

 

[had8ley]

re they not?
#2 #1

Noon LAX 7:00PM

8:30PM Maricopa 12:40PM

10:30PM Tucson 10:40AM

5:00AM El Paso 4:30AM

5:30PM Ar. San Antonio 5:30PM

6:30PM Dp. 4:30PM

Midnight Houston 11:30AM

9:00AM Ar. NOL 12:30AM

11:30AM Dp. 11:30PM

2:30AM Mobile 8:00PM

5:00PM Pensacola 5:30PM

11:00PM Tallahassee 12:30PM

3:00AM Jacksonville 10:30AM

6:30AM Orlando 7:00AM

Having taken this into mind, would this schedule be even better than the pre-Katrina one?

I hate to burst your bubble but that is a terrible schedule. One has to take into account the population of the cities served and/or their tourist draw. The Sunset crosses 2,000 miles currently and almost 2,800 to get to Florida. In all that distance it only serves a few population centers of note mainly LAX(12mil)Phenix/Tucson(5mil), El Paso(.7mil), San Antonio(2mil), Houston(5.5mil), New Orleans(1.3mil), Jacksonville(1.3mil) and Orlando(2.6mil). You have to hit as many of those during decent hours as you can. Going through Houston at midnight and NOL at 12:30AM just won't cut it.

First choice is restore the pre-katrina schedule as it did a pretty good job. Otherwise try this:

#2 #1

8:10AM Lv LAX Arr 4:45PM

4:54PM Lv Maricopa Lv 9:15AM

8:09PM Lv Tucson Lv 7:30AM

2:50AM Lv El Paso Lv 12:30AM

4:05PM Arr San Antonio Lv 12:15PM

4:45PM Lv San Antonio Arr 11:35AM

9:20PM Lv Houston Lv 7:20AM

6:30AM Arr NOL Lv 10:00PM

5:00PM Lv NOL Arr 8:20AM

8:50PM Lv Mobile Lv 4:20AM

11:50PM Lv Pensacola Lv 1:40AM

5:50AM Lv Tallahassee Lv 9:30PM

10:35AM Lv Jacksonville Lv 5:30PM

2:20PM Arr Orlando Lv 1:40PM

This schedule serves all major metro areas during decent hours except El Paso which has the least population. It connects with your Crescent and allows a layover in NOL before continuing on to Florida on a separate train with the same on the return. The Sunset turns in NOL thus not tying up it's valuable equipment in the NOL to Florida quagmire. It also frees up Amtrak to use whatever type of equipment they have available for the NOL to Florida train. The Eagle connection would move to El Paso or else require an overnight layover in San Antonio. It's never on time anyway. This schedule now provides Houston-San Antonio with a morning and an afternoon train that run at more respectable times. It makes the Tucson/Phoenix-LAX a day train. They could add a second train on that route offering overnight service if traffic justified it. I have always thought it offered the best of all worlds, but then that is just me.

Unless Amtrak went daily to Orlando I'm afraid they would balk at both schedules. There is no time to service or turn the equipment leaving a trainset sitting 24 hours.

Actually Amtrak doesn't seem to be bothered by that as they currently layover the Sunset equipment in NOL for 3 days before returning it. That is because it is supposed to be going on to Orlando but it doesn't. In LAX they layover the equipment for 28 hours because they can't turn it in the current 10:10AM to 2:30PM time frame. Because of the time and distance it will always take three trains sets to protect the NOL to Orlando train if it's run daily. With the current inefficient timing of the Sunset they are using 4 train sets to protect a 3 times a week schedule. With 5 sets and a decent schedule they could run it daily LAX to NOL. It's just more nonsense from Amtrak. If you only have two sets to protect the NOL to Florida train then it has to terminate in JAX and use the NY-Miami trains to connect with the rest of Florida.

True about the excessive lay-over of Sunset equipment; at one time they were using the Chief's train set to cover the Sunset but that was back in the days of the UP melt down. Another huge waste of equipment rusting to the rail is the City sitting almost 24 hours in NOL. But first we must build a depot in Mobile before we can run east of NOL. I think that excuse has worn out its own welcome.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

Alan's quote below matches with my teen age recollection of the frequency of trains using the Hudson River Tunnels. So then my question to the Author of the book in 1916, I quoted in a prior message: How did he arrive at a capacity of 144 trains an hour?

Well I went back to his statement on Page 155 where he said "the maximum capacity of all tunnels is 144 trains per hour." I missed the word all with the 2 under the Hudson and the 4 under the East river that equals 24 trains per hour per track to and from the station. A still impressive number so I fail to see much difficulty to adjust schedules to improve service. But this matches Alan statement of Hudson River Capacity of 22 trains per hour (what's 2 trains per hour difference )

Then to comment that in most cities I have visited, where I needed to pay attention, Rush "hour" seemed to start at 3:30 and end at 6:30pm. I remember when I first moved to LA I had an apartment in North Hollywood and worked in Disneyland. If I left the apartment at 3:00pm I arrived at the park at 3:45pm. If I left the apartment at 3:15pm I arrived at the park at 6:30pm. Not good as my shift started at 6:00pm. I moved to Anaheim as soon as I could.

My most important comment about how Amtrak can improve the Sunset? Just run It There are people that need to travel to the cities on that route.

The limiting factor here however is the Hudson River tunnels, which are at capacity during rush hour (IIRC 22 trains per hour) and platform space as mentioned by OBS. Tying up a platform during rush hour with a long distance train isn't exactly preferable, but Amtrak has done so in the past. The LSL used to depart much closer to rush hour than it does now, and in fact in NYC some actually consider 4:30 PM to be the start of rush hour.

 

[Guest_Birdy_*]

The obvious thing from the Western side of the line would be to restore service through Phoenix, the largest city in the US unserved by Amtrak, instead of routing the train through Maricopa.

 

[NativeSon5859]

Let's think outside the box a bit...just for kicks...

• New service between Houston and Atlanta via New Orleans, Mobile, and Montgomery on the five-times-weekly "Southerner".

• Sunset Limited service expanded back to Orlando via Mobile, Pensacola, Tallahassee, and Jacksonville with better timing for Gulf Coast customers (NOL to PNS 5:50pm – 11:30pm; PNS to NOL (5:03am to 11:25am) and a more convenient Orlando arrival time of 1:05pm; Faster service NOL-ORL (based on the 1999/2000 schedules)

Schedule for Sunset Limited key stops:

LAX - 2:30p

NOL - 3:05p-5:50p

MOE - 8:53p

JAX - 9:30a

ORL - 1:05p

ORL – 5:20p

JAX – 10:40p

MOE – 7:30a

NOL – 11:25a – 1:25p

LAX – 11:30a

• New three-times-weekly overnight "Gulf Breeze" service between Orlando and Mobile via Jacksonville, Tallahassee, and Pensacola to operate on the days when the Sunset Limited does not operate; Connects with Southerner trains in Atmore for points North.

• Restored same day connections between Chicago and Mobile, Pensacola, Jacksonville, and Orlando via New Orleans.

• Expanded Amtrak service for the key markets of Atlanta and Houston

• New, faster service to Florida from Atlanta offered via a change of trains in Atmore

Train #119/120

The Southerner

• Houston – New Orleans – Mobile – Montgomery – Atlanta

• Departs HOS daily except Monday/Tuesday

• Departs ATL daily except Wednesday/Thursday

• Connects with trains #19/20 in Atlanta for points North

• Equipment: Superliner Coaches (2), Cross Country Café (1), Superliner Sleeping car (1)

• Checked baggage service available in HOS/NOL/MOE/MGM/ATL

Note: To avoid overlap, passengers traveling between NOL-ATL/ATL-NOL only will be encouraged to use trains 19/20; Trains 119/120 are available for booking NOL-ATL / ATL-NOL but with a higher fare bucket. Passengers traveling between NOL and all stops prior to ATL are excluded from this.

Schedule for key stops:

Depart Houston: 8:35pm

New Orleans 6:15am

Mobile 10:10am

Atmore 11:00am (connection with trains #110/111)

Montgomery 1:30pm

Arrive Atlanta 6:50pm

Depart Atlanta: 11:15am

Montgomery 2:15pm

Atmore 5:30pm (connection with trains #110/111)

Mobile 6:30pm

New Orleans 10:15pm

Arrive Houston: 8:20am

Train #110/111

The Gulf Breeze

• Orlando – Jacksonville – Tallahassee – Pensacola - Mobile

• Departs ORL Monday/Wednesday/Friday (#2 dep. Tu/Th/Su)

• Departs MOE Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday (#1 dep. We/Fr/Su)

• Connects with trains #119/120 in Atmore for Montgomery/Atlanta.

• Equipment: Amfleet 2 coaches (2), Amfleet Diner/Lounge, Viewliner Sleeping car

Schedule for key stops:

Depart Orlando: 7:10pm

Jacksonville 10:28pm

Tallahassee 2:22am

Pensacola 6:45am

Atmore 8:30am (connection with trains #119/120)

Arrive Mobile 9:25am

Depart Mobile: 7:55pm

Atmore 8:43pm (connection with trains #119/120)

Pensacola 10:40pm

Tallahassee 4:38am

Jacksonville 8:30am

Arrive Orlando 12:05pm

 

[edding]

The obvious thing from the Western side of the line would be to restore service through Phoenix, the largest city in the US unserved by Amtrak, instead of routing the train through Maricopa.

AMEN to that! To bore you all again with my constant refrain: Maricopa IS NOT a Phoenix stop.

Ed

 

[Todd]

So for those of you who are familiar with the LA to Orlando route, what are the scenic highlights of the line? I know the Pecos and Huey Long bridges, but anything else?

 

[GG-1]

So for those of you who are familiar with the LA to Orlando route, what are the scenic highlights of the line? I know the Pecos and Huey Long bridges, but anything else?

Aloha

Well I would not say I am familiar with the route, as I only rode it once, but there was a lot of southern country far from any roads that was beautiful. Guess the unique area would be the wetlands/Bayou's.

 

[WICT106]

More than once per day each way. Offset the departures from each station by something like 8 - 12 hours. Also, give Amtrak enough funding to be able to upgrade and maintain unsignalled track to at least FRA Class 3 (59 mph speed limits for passenger service), in order to return service to Phoenix. If anything, the route between Phoenix and Los Angeles should be FRA class 6 track (110 mph). There should be more than 2x per day service Phoenix - Los angeles, too.