Hurricane Earl

[had8ley]

One difference between Sunnyside Yard in New York and New Orleans is that Sunnyside is above sea level. The chance of storm surge flooding at Sunnyside is nil.

Valid point but...in a worse case scenario every approach to Penn Station, including the station itself, is under ground.(Anybody know exactly how far below sea level the tunnels are?) The only escape route from Sunnyside yards would be the Hell Gate bridge and if the tracks are torn up along the coast you've basically marooned all your equipment for the East Coast! :unsure:

 

[jis]

One difference between Sunnyside Yard in New York and New Orleans is that Sunnyside is above sea level. The chance of storm surge flooding at Sunnyside is nil.

Valid point but...in a worse case scenario every approach to Penn Station, including the station itself, is under ground.(Anybody know exactly how far below sea level the tunnels are?) The only escape route from Sunnyside yards would be the Hell Gate bridge and if the tracks are torn up along the coast you've basically marooned all your equipment for the East Coast! :unsure:

And if an asteroid strikes New York then we are all screwed too hboy:

Why are we focusing on flooding from a class 2 hurricane 50 miles off shore at best?

Now one station that will get flooded with a storm surge and it always does is Hoboken. But they are used to it. The tunnel mouths for NYP are well above sea level. The surge will have to be quite massive to get to them. In short, none of the entry points to the tunnel are at such places where a relatively regular storm surge can get to it. There is more chance of water getting into Penn Station down the steps from 8th and 7th Aves or through the 8th or 7th Ave subway tunnels, than through the East or North River tunnels. And none of that will cause Synnyside to flood.

 

[AlanB]

One difference between Sunnyside Yard in New York and New Orleans is that Sunnyside is above sea level. The chance of storm surge flooding at Sunnyside is nil.

Valid point but...in a worse case scenario every approach to Penn Station, including the station itself, is under ground.(Anybody know exactly how far below sea level the tunnels are?) The only escape route from Sunnyside yards would be the Hell Gate bridge and if the tracks are torn up along the coast you've basically marooned all your equipment for the East Coast! :unsure:

And if an asteroid strikes New York then we are all screwed too hboy:

Why are we focusing on flooding from a class 2 hurricane 50 miles off shore at best?

Now one station that will get flooded with a storm surge and it always does is Hoboken. But they are used to it. The tunnel mouths for NYP are well above sea level. The surge will have to be quite massive to get to them. In short, none of the entry points to the tunnel are at such places where a relatively regular storm surge can get to it. There is more chance of water getting into Penn Station down the steps from 8th and 7th Aves or through the 8th or 7th Ave subway tunnels, than through the East or North River tunnels. And none of that will cause Synnyside to flood.

I agree that the chances of any flooding affecting Amtrak ops within NYC for a Cat 2 50 miles off shore is nil.

However, that is not the case if the storm was to change course and NY take a direct hit from a Cat 2 storm. With a Cat 2 storm aimed right at NY, the tunnel mouths and yard leads in Queens could well go under water. Sunnyside proper would remain out of the water however.

With a direct hit from either a Cat 3 or 4 hurricane it's almost guaranteed that the Queens tunnels will be under water and the bulk of Sunnyside yard will also be under water. Additionally, while the East River tunnel mouths in Manhattan would be out of the direct flooding zone, the Hudson River tunnel mouths are right on the border line and could well succumb to flooding. Especially since they are below street level and the indicated flood zones on the city maps are for street level flooding.

The Hudson River tunnels in New Jersey are certainly safe from flooding from the Hudson, since you have a mountain in the way. I'm less certain about flooding from the Meadowlands however.

You can see the predicted flood patterns for NYC on this map. Note, this is a large 5MB file, so it will take a bit to download it.

 

[jis]

With a direct hit from either a Cat 3 or 4 hurricane it's almost guaranteed that the Queens tunnels will be under water and the bulk of Sunnyside yard will also be under water. Additionally, while the East River tunnel mouths in Manhattan would be out of the direct flooding zone, the Hudson River tunnel mouths are right on the border line and could well succumb to flooding. Especially since they are below street level and the indicated flood zones on the city maps are for street level flooding.

The Hudson River tunnels in New Jersey are certainly safe from flooding from the Hudson, since you have a mountain in the way. I'm less certain about flooding from the Meadowlands however.

You can see the predicted flood patterns for NYC on this map. Note, this is a large 5MB file, so it will take a bit to download it.

From that angle I'd view a Tsunami caused by tectonic activity by the Azores (a distinct possibility) as a more serious threat. With a Hurricane one will have days to evacuate. With a Tsunami it will be considerably less than a day.

Remember that because of the existence of the subway tunnels, the water logging does not have to happen at and around Penn Station for water incursion to take place. A good solid feed into South Ferry will quite easily travel through the tunnels to discharge into Penn Station.

 

[the_traveler]

Also, isn't there an open air area just west of Penn Station?

I don't know exactly it is, but I would maybe around 10th Avenue!

 

[AlanB]

From that angle I'd view a Tsunami caused by tectonic activity by the Azores (a distinct possibility) as a more serious threat. With a Hurricane one will have days to evacuate. With a Tsunami it will be considerably less than a day.

Agreed; just pointing out that it is technically possible to put Sunnyside under water with the right conditions.

 

[AlanB]

Also, isn't there an open air area just west of Penn Station?

I don't know exactly it is, but I would maybe around 10th Avenue!

Yes, between 9th & 10th Aves. Hence my point about street flooding filling things up.