S
sutton
Guest
So if, in the worst case scenario, Bush gets his wish for zero Amtrak funding, WHEN would that likely shut Amtrak down? End of summer? October this year? Jan 06?
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
A
Amtrak OBS Employee
Guest
Hmmm hypothetically speaking.....
Most likely, almost immediately the shut down process would begin. As the corporation would most likely shut down in phases beginning with the least important departments (hmmm...they're all important in some way). I would presume actual train service would begin ceasing operation in their phases as well in a fairly short timespan, beginning most likely with the long distance trains in the order of ridership (and areas where there is fequency such as "Silver Service"), and ending with the California Corridor, and finally the Northeast Corridor. I would say by the end of the fiscal year (maybe just possible the end of next fiscal year) the company's operations as a whole will have ceased.
As far as I am concerned, this is all typical politics played every year when it comes to Amtrak's funding. In other words this has been going on for the last thirty years. Amtrak still has a strong support in Congress. The only thing concerning me this year in particular is the fact the president's budget offers "zero" in operating subsidy. Every year there has been a decent amount in the president's budget. Amtrak requests much more than that amount, and Congress generally meets in the middle. In mathematics, we call it the law of averages! It appears to me Amtrak recieves the average of what they request each year and what the president's budget proposes each year. In other words it appears to me Congress just meets in the middle within that criteria in some way. What has me concerned this year is "zero" will bring down any average quickly! And that may have an influence in Congress' decision on how much to fund Amtrak.
Maybe I am just concerned for no reason at all! After all, previously said, this has been going on for over thirty years! I am not going to lose sleep over it. And if and when it happens, we'll all know anyway!!! OBS....
Most likely, almost immediately the shut down process would begin. As the corporation would most likely shut down in phases beginning with the least important departments (hmmm...they're all important in some way). I would presume actual train service would begin ceasing operation in their phases as well in a fairly short timespan, beginning most likely with the long distance trains in the order of ridership (and areas where there is fequency such as "Silver Service"), and ending with the California Corridor, and finally the Northeast Corridor. I would say by the end of the fiscal year (maybe just possible the end of next fiscal year) the company's operations as a whole will have ceased.
As far as I am concerned, this is all typical politics played every year when it comes to Amtrak's funding. In other words this has been going on for the last thirty years. Amtrak still has a strong support in Congress. The only thing concerning me this year in particular is the fact the president's budget offers "zero" in operating subsidy. Every year there has been a decent amount in the president's budget. Amtrak requests much more than that amount, and Congress generally meets in the middle. In mathematics, we call it the law of averages! It appears to me Amtrak recieves the average of what they request each year and what the president's budget proposes each year. In other words it appears to me Congress just meets in the middle within that criteria in some way. What has me concerned this year is "zero" will bring down any average quickly! And that may have an influence in Congress' decision on how much to fund Amtrak.
Maybe I am just concerned for no reason at all! After all, previously said, this has been going on for over thirty years! I am not going to lose sleep over it. And if and when it happens, we'll all know anyway!!! OBS....
Does it requires 160(?) days FRA(sp?) advanced notice to shut down the route? Or can it shuts down right away?
I thought CA corridor is support by CA funds, not fed, so it cannot be shut down, right?
I thought CA corridor is support by CA funds, not fed, so it cannot be shut down, right?
jccollins
Conductor
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2002
- Messages
- 1,266
The Amtrak California (Capitol Corridor, San Joaquin, Pacific Surfliner) equipment is fully owned by the State of California. Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin trains are fully funded operationally by the State of California. On the Pacific Surfliner route, the State of California funds 50% of the operation of the trains while Amtrak National funds the other 50% for their operation. In addition, Amtrak National provides all the crews and training of crews to run the trains. Amtrak National also holds the rights to operate trains over the host railroads.gswager said:
While the operation would shift over to completely state run if something were to happen to Amtrak National, it would take a bit of work to close up some integrated parts of the operation supported by both state and national interests, not to mention Amtrak California would need to set up some kind of program to be able to train and hire their own crews. It could not happen overnight, but I doubt Amtrak California service would severely be impacted. Surfliner frequencies might be cut at first (or frequencies on other lines to keep the frequencies of the Surfliners at the existing level since they are the most heavily traveled of the three state corridors) until the state could commit to additional operational subsidies to run the trains.
Hopefully none of this ever happens and we don't have to worry about this scenario, though.
G
Guest_slimGP30
Guest
I don't know about the first question you ask, but I think "OBS" has made a generalization of what or how it may/could happen. There is more to shutting down a corporation of that size than "OBS" specifies here.gswager said:
As far as your second question, it is to my understanding even though the state of CA funds that corridor, Amtrak will still depend on that federal operating subsidy to operate nationwide. They supply the crews to many of the state funded situations. I am not fully aware of how the CA situation works, but I am quite aware of how the state supported services here in NC are. As an example, the Carolinian is an actual Amtrak funded train, and then the state of NC picks up the operating costs between Rocky Mount and Charlotte. Amtrak still provides its standard of food service. I believe, however, the state picks up part of the cost (if not all) of crewing the train in all or part of its trip. And the Piedmont is a fully state funded train, hence why there is only snack service on it since the state hasn't yet found (to my knowlege) a vender such as Amtraks (which I believe is Gate Goumet?).
G
Guest_slimGP30
Guest
This off subject, but would it be possible a firewall issue is preventing me from logging in? I can't get logged into the site. I tried the "cookies" deal and results yet. I don't want to mess with the firewall if I don't have to.
There is a 180-day train-off requirement for discontinuing all service on a line (don't think it's necessarily an FRA requirement, though). However, a bankrupt company with no cash would not be subjected to that requirement (if you can't afford to turn another wheel, you close up shop and go home, and let the lawyers, banks, and courts sort it out).
If Amtrak's FY06 funding were to be 0 (the actual proposal is reported to be about $300 million), Amtrak would have no choice but to shut everything down on 1 October. Amtrak runs at a loss throughout the year, and receiving a zero subsidy would mean that they wouldn't even have the cash to make payroll for the beginning of October.
They are unlikely to finish FY05 with any meaningful reserve in the bank. For the first quarter of this FY, they have actually had a higher loss than budgeted. If this continues (last summer, they also failed to make budget; but that was offset by a better-than-expected winter), Amtrak could very easily be in trouble *before* FY05 comes to a close in September. I suppose they could make a desperate attempt to limp along ot the end of the FY by pulling the old-fashioned "cut all maintenance and repair to meet operating payroll" scheme, but that just puts you further in the hole for next year.
The idea that Amtrak could last, in any way, shape, or form, through the end of next FY on a 0 subsidy is wishful thinking at best.
Even at a $300 million level, Amtrak's debt obligations eat that up before a wheel even turns. The only solution to that is bankruptcy, and if that happens, you can forget about most (if not all) of the system ever seeing another day in revenue service.
On a different note, I believe that the "Amtrak California" cars are owned by the state of California, but the "Pacific Surfliner" cars are Amtrak-owned.
If Amtrak's FY06 funding were to be 0 (the actual proposal is reported to be about $300 million), Amtrak would have no choice but to shut everything down on 1 October. Amtrak runs at a loss throughout the year, and receiving a zero subsidy would mean that they wouldn't even have the cash to make payroll for the beginning of October.
They are unlikely to finish FY05 with any meaningful reserve in the bank. For the first quarter of this FY, they have actually had a higher loss than budgeted. If this continues (last summer, they also failed to make budget; but that was offset by a better-than-expected winter), Amtrak could very easily be in trouble *before* FY05 comes to a close in September. I suppose they could make a desperate attempt to limp along ot the end of the FY by pulling the old-fashioned "cut all maintenance and repair to meet operating payroll" scheme, but that just puts you further in the hole for next year.
The idea that Amtrak could last, in any way, shape, or form, through the end of next FY on a 0 subsidy is wishful thinking at best.
Even at a $300 million level, Amtrak's debt obligations eat that up before a wheel even turns. The only solution to that is bankruptcy, and if that happens, you can forget about most (if not all) of the system ever seeing another day in revenue service.
On a different note, I believe that the "Amtrak California" cars are owned by the state of California, but the "Pacific Surfliner" cars are Amtrak-owned.
Latest posts
-
-
-
Connecticut Inland Route and Albany - Boston Corridor (Compass Service)- Latest: AmtrakMaineiac
-
-
-
