Interesting Three Rivers Consist

[Amfleet Fan]

One of the great things about working next to the NE Corridor in Newark, NJ is being able to see the varying consists on a day to day basis.

Today’s westbound Three Rivers was a considerable change from when I rode it in July and from what the consist has been lately.

Today it was pulled by an HHP-8, followed by one Horizon Coach, 2 Amfleet II Coaches, an Amfleet I Dinette/Café? and Pine View Viewliner. There were no baggage cars surprisingly.

It would be nice to see this train go completely Amfleet II.

I’ll keep my eyes peeled the next few days to see if the other train sets have changed also.

 

[Amtrak Railfan]

Why today's Three Rivers Train don't have a Baggage Car?

 

[battalion51]

Well with Silver Service being cut off from New York until today, it is entirely possible that the flow of baggage cars into/out of New York was interrupted with all the cancellations.

 

[Guest]

Why today's Three Rivers Train don't have a Baggage Car?

There could be many reasons.

But today's consist was one of the best looking I've seen in a while.

 

[coachseats]

I too wish that it could have all amfleet coaches, and the refurbished ones to boot. On a trip earlier this year, it did have all three coaches as Amfleets, and it made all the difference as everyone seemed to be having a great time. It is tough to understand how the Pennsylvanian for a shorter trip can have four amfleets, while the 3R chugs along with its lowly Horizons. If we can just get a diner going too, we'd be in good shape! The good crews on this train deserve to have the best equipment to go with their great service!

 

[Amfleet Fan]

I can't say I dislike the Horizons.

When I rode the 3R in July, we had 2 Horizons and one Amfleet II.

I think the Horizons are pretty roomy inside, the downfall to them in my opinion is they don't have as much of a "warm" feeling as the Amfleet's do.

However, the refurbished Horizons on our train looked pretty comfortable, green upholstery, nice carpet, they have potential to be as good as the Amfleet II's for LD Trains, just change the lighting and make the window's larger, but of course this takes money Amtrak doesn't have right now.

 

[Amfleet Fan]

Today’s westbound consist is more of what I’m used to seeing on a daily basis.

HHP-8

2 Horizon Coaches

1 Amfleet II Coach

1 Horizon Dinette

1 Viewliner –(couldn’t catch name)

1 Phase IV 1700 Baggage

1 Phase III Baggage

 

[battalion51]

It is tough to understand how the Pennsylvanian for a shorter trip can have four amfleets, while the 3R chugs along with its lowly Horizons.

The reason why the Pennsylvanian can cary Amfleet I's is because it is a daylight only train. Amtrak has no problem giving Amfleet I's to trains that originate and terminate in the same day. However for trains that go overnigt, Amtrak prefers to give roomier coaches. The Horizons on the Three Rivers are the Long Distance variety, not commuter variety. In order for the Three Rivers to go all Amfleet Amtrak would have to go with Amfleet II's which are in short order right now.

 

[Amfleet Fan]

I think Coachseats meant to say four "Amfleet II's" as that is what that train is currently equipped with.

 

[Viewliner]

No Baggage Cars, isn't that basically how Amtrak depicts its trains in its publications (Images are of course photoshopped)? Very Interesting.

In theory, couldn't the Diner be switched to the Three Rivers, and extend it to Boston (via the Inland Route maybe?)

 

[AlanB]

In theory, couldn't the Diner be switched to the Three Rivers, and extend it to Boston (via the Inland Route maybe?)

Color me confused. :unsure:

What diner? And what does Boston have to do with the diner? :huh:

Plus while were at it, why the inland route?

 

[Amfleet Fan]

In theory, couldn't the Diner be switched to the Three Rivers, and extend it to Boston (via the Inland Route maybe?)

There are no available diners for use on the Three Rivers at this time.

They do a pretty good job of serving full meals in the Horizon Dinette when I took this train a few months ago.

As for extending the 3R to Boston, there is no need. Most passengers board in Philly and points west.

The train originates in NYP and doesn't get that many passengers boarding there.

Anyone can take a Regional from Boston and connect to the 3R at NYP.

 

[battalion51]

I agree that the Three Rivers up to Boston would be a waste. There already is plenty of Regional service up there, and that would not make good sense to run the train that far up, especially with the LSL already there for the Chicago-Boston connection. What I would like to see (on another subject) is the Federal and Palmetto bug be merged, giving Florida service non-stop all the way up to Boston. I would hope the train would have two sleepers, Dining Car, Crew Dorm, baggage, and Amfleet II coaches. Now that would be a sweet little train.

 

[Amfleet]

Here we go again on this, but I would not merge the Palmetto and Federal. The Federal targets a business market between Washington and Boston and if the northbound Palmetto/Federal were late, then a passengers needing to be in Boston by 9am the next morning may just as well go hop on an air shuttle. I also do not like the sound of two nights to get from Boston to Florida. Putting that aside, I think the Silver Meteor would be perfect for a Boston extension. It has a morning arrival and evening departure from New York. However, more equipment would be purchased to do this as two whole extra trainsets would have to be in Boston to cover a same day southbound departure before the northbound came in.

 

[battalion51]

Now that I think about it, your right Amfleet, the Meteor would be a good canidate, but I think the Star makes a better canidacy than the Meteor. As it is right now inbound Meteor crews (in New York) go to the hotel after arrival, stay at the hotel until 4:00 PM, and then are the outbound crew for 97. If you extend the Meteor to Boston, not only will you need one more equipment set, but you also will need to add two additional crews to the lineup (the contract is for either 3 on 4 off, or 4 on 5 off). However if the Star is sent to Boston, no additional equipment is needed as 92 inbound equipment lays over to the next days 91 equipment. Also, no additional crews are needed as Star crews already overnight in New York, they could instead lay over in Boston. Advertised times would be something like a 7:30 PM arrival in Boston and an 8:00 AM departure, not too bad if you ask me.

 

[Amfleet]

Now that I think about it, your right Amfleet, the Meteor would be a good canidate, but I think the Star makes a better canidacy than the Meteor. As it is right now inbound Meteor crews (in New York) go to the hotel after arrival, stay at the hotel until 4:00 PM, and then are the outbound crew for 97. If you extend the Meteor to Boston, not only will you need one more equipment set, but you also will need to add two additional crews to the lineup (the contract is for either 3 on 4 off, or 4 on 5 off). However if the Star is sent to Boston, no additional equipment is needed as 92 inbound equipment lays over to the next days 91 equipment. Also, no additional crews are needed as Star crews already overnight in New York, they could instead lay over in Boston. Advertised times would be something like a 7:30 PM arrival in Boston and an 8:00 AM departure, not too bad if you ask me.

#92 arrives in NYC at 3:50pm. Most trains spend about 20 minutes laying over then depart. So we'll give the Star a 4:10pm departure. The average Regional train takes about 4 hours and 20 minutes to make the NYC-BOS stretch of the NEC. That's with speeds at 120 mph however. Since the Star can only go about 100 mph we'll say it takes 5 hours to complete the stretch (including padding). This puts #92 into BOS around 9:10pm.

Now to 91. Given it now departs NYC at 11:30am, subtract 5 hours to get Boston departure. 6:30am is the departure time from BOS for 91. Now the only problem is Boston is not equiped to maintain and stock Diners, but I'm sure that can be worked upon.

The question is though, for the amount of passengers that connect from Regional trains in the Boston area to the Silver Service trains in New Yrok is the extension really worth it?

 

[Viewliner]

I should've been more clear, I meant if we switched the diner to the Three Rivers from the LSL, but that probably wouldn't be a good Idea.

The Star wouldn't work as 6:30 am is definitely too early, but I think once more Viewliners are purchased we can use some to make a longer Silver Service train and extend it to BOS.

 

[battalion51]

Well I think that the market is definitely there. If you look at the connection list on either the Star or the Meteor you will see that a large number of people connect to Regionals in either Washington or New York. While all of those passengers may not necessarily be going to Boston, they are going to other places like New Haven, Springfield (connection to shuttle), and Providence. If you have the Long Distnace train make identical stops to Acela, you could also probably whack about 15 minutes off the travel time from New York to Boston.

 

[Amfleet]

I don't think 6:30am is too early at all. You would be surprised what people do to get places and do things. When I was 9, my parents had our family booked on an 11:00pm flight from Orladno back to Boston that didn't get in until almost 3:00am!

The following stops is what I would expect an extended Silver Service train to make:

Boston - South Station

Boston - Back Bay

Route 128

Providence

New London

New Haven

Stamford

New York and all scheduled points south to Miami

 

[battalion51]

What you described with the stops is exactly my point. If they make fewer stops than regular Regionals it can shorten up the trip a little, and it is not necessary to serve small stations like Bridgeport when there is already plenty of Regional service.

 

[AlanB]

I'd still stick with using the Star to reach Boston. The times are definately better and more family oriented, which is what Amtrak is looking for. Yes it may require more equipment and crews, but the service needs to be attractive to a maximum number of people.

As for stops, I'd probably loose New Londen from Amfleet's list. Two reasons, one not enough traffic. Second, the platforms are too short requiring double spots. Since there is alternative service here, I think that this stop can be dropped.

 

[Amfleet]

I'd still stick with using the Star to reach Boston. The times are definately better and more family oriented, which is what Amtrak is looking for. Yes it may require more equipment and crews, but the service needs to be attractive to a maximum number of people.
As for stops, I'd probably loose New Londen from Amfleet's list. Two reasons, one not enough traffic. Second, the platforms are too short requiring double spots. Since there is alternative service here, I think that this stop can be dropped.

As for stops, I'd probably loose New Londen from Amfleet's list. Two reasons, one not enough traffic. Second, the platforms are too short requiring double spots. Since there is alternative service here, I think that this stop can be dropped.

Well, you have to factor in that the top speed in the New London area is only 25 mph, so would you really loose a lot of time stopping there? Even if it required a double spot. I think one would really have to look at how many passengers per day leave on Regional trains to connect to the Silver Service from New London to determine if a stop is really neccessary. If only on average two passengers a week go to Florida from New London, then a stop there is a waste of time. Remember, there is also the beauty of flag stops. Though unseen on the NEC, it may work for New London.

 

[AlanB]

Well my logic is based upon the fact that Silver Service trains don't stop at Metro Park, NJ a stop that is much busier than New London. Most Acela's and Metroliner's even stop at Metro Park. Only a couple Acela's stop in New London.

 

[Steve4031]

It is tough to understand how the Pennsylvanian for a shorter trip can have four amfleets, while the 3R chugs along with its lowly Horizons.

The reason why the Pennsylvanian can cary Amfleet I's is because it is a daylight only train. Amtrak has no problem giving Amfleet I's to trains that originate and terminate in the same day. However for trains that go overnigt, Amtrak prefers to give roomier coaches. The Horizons on the Three Rivers are the Long Distance variety, not commuter variety. In order for the Three Rivers to go all Amfleet Amtrak would have to go with Amfleet II's which are in short order right now.

If those horizons don't have legrests, how can they be long distance coaches. I think the only true long distance single leve coaches that Amtrak has the Amfleet II's and maybey some Amflett I's

 

[Amfleet]

It is tough to understand how the Pennsylvanian for a shorter trip can have four amfleets, while the 3R chugs along with its lowly Horizons.

The reason why the Pennsylvanian can cary Amfleet I's is because it is a daylight only train. Amtrak has no problem giving Amfleet I's to trains that originate and terminate in the same day. However for trains that go overnigt, Amtrak prefers to give roomier coaches. The Horizons on the Three Rivers are the Long Distance variety, not commuter variety. In order for the Three Rivers to go all Amfleet Amtrak would have to go with Amfleet II's which are in short order right now.

If those horizons don't have legrests, how can they be long distance coaches. I think the only true long distance single leve coaches that Amtrak has the Amfleet II's and maybey some Amflett I's

No, eight Horizon coaches were rebuilt to long distance configuration. Instead of 78 seats, there are only 60, plus there is the addition of foot and leg rests. I also believe curtains were added to the windows.