International vs. Niagara Rainbow

[Donctor]

In the Fall/Winter 1994/1995 National Timetable, the Niagara Rainbow and Maple Leaf are listed as having the following amenities:

Services On Board the Maple Leaf and Niagara Rainbow

Note—Between Niagara Falls, ON, and Toronto, trains are operated by VIA

Rail Canada in cooperation with Amtrak. Through fares/ticketing available.

Slumbercoach—Trains 62/65 only. New York-Toronto—Reservations

required. Single and double Slumbercoach rooms. First Class Service package

not provided. Accommodations available for occupancy in New York at 9:30 PM.

Coaches—Reservations Required.

Cafe Car—Sandwiches, snacks and beverages.

No Checked Baggage—Passengers may carry hand baggage on board.

My first question is this: Why is the Slumbercoach listed as being in the Niagara Rainbow's consist? I always thought that the sleeper went to Toronto on the International. Were they the same train? If so, when and why did the name change? Was "International" VIA's name, and "Niagara" Amtrak's?

Second question: Wasn't the sleeper a 10/6, not a Slumbercoach? Did it change in 1994 when the Capitol/City/Auto Train went Superliner? I don't remember any of those trains having Slumbercoaches as late as 1994, so where did these spares come from? The Montrealer?

Third question: Didn't one of the Empire trains have checked baggage? (I'm ignoring the Adirondack, which obviously got one later in the 1990s.) If the Maple Leaf and Niagara Rainbow are listed without one, what train was it placed on?

 

[cpamtfan]

1. The Niagara Ranbow and International are two toatally different (discontinued0 trains. The Niagara Ranbow was originally a NY-DET(?) train VIA Canada( :lol: !) before VIA was even around! The train you are talking about ran NYP-TOR on an overnight run, leaving NY late and getting to TOR early (good for business travelers). The Slumbercoach was not on my Spring Summer 1994 timetable, but I'm not certain on which car it actually was. Both trains were discontinued due to budget cuts (1979 and 1996(?)).

The other train is also a Amtrak/ VIA day train that ran from CHI-TOR via Port Huron. It was usually Superliner equipment, but on most occasions the VIA cars (forget name) and VIA F40 ran to CHI or Horizon cars (or a mix of both)! This train was discontinued 2004.

2. I'm not certain, but they could have come off the CL/AT/CONO (although, I don't think any, or most, ran with Slumbercoaches after Amtrak entered multiple demolition derbys where car after car wa demolished.

3. Nope, no Empire Service train (or the Maple Leaf) ran with a baggage car. The only train on that route to have a baggage car is the LSL.

 

[AMTK 365]

It was usually Superliner equipment, but on most occasions the VIA cars (forget name) and VIA F40 ran to CHI or Horizon cars (or a mix of both)! This train was discontinued 2004

The International started in 1982 and ran with the following equipment through the years:

1982-1990: Mix of either VIA LRC Locomotives and Tempo or LRC cars, or Amtrak F40s and Amfleets.

1990-1993: Amtrak F40s and Amfleets or VIA F40s and LRC cars (the former Amtrak LRCs were used on this route).

1993-1995: VIA F40s and Horizon cars. Amtrak units occasionally would substitute

1995-1999: VIA F40s and Superliners. Again, Amtrak units would periodically substitute.

The last five years from 1999 until 2004 saw single level cars used during the warmer months and Superliners in the winter. From '99 until about 2002, P32-8WHs were used for power, until Amtrak refitted a block of P42s (26-37, 126-128) for ITCS operation on the Michigan corridor. The train was discontinued in April, 2004 and replaced with the Chicago-Port Huron Blue Water.

Just nit-picking.

 

[Donctor]

1. The Niagara Ranbow and International are two toatally different (discontinued0 trains. The Niagara Ranbow was originally a NY-DET(?) train VIA Canada( :lol: !) before VIA was even around!

I thought the New York-Detroit train was the Empire State Express (another resurrected name).

 

[Mark]

It was usually Superliner equipment, but on most occasions the VIA cars (forget name) and VIA F40 ran to CHI or Horizon cars (or a mix of both)! This train was discontinued 2004

The International started in 1982 and ran with the following equipment through the years:

1982-1990: Mix of either VIA LRC Locomotives and Tempo or LRC cars, or Amtrak F40s and Amfleets.

1990-1993: Amtrak F40s and Amfleets or VIA F40s and LRC cars (the former Amtrak LRCs were used on this route).

1993-1995: VIA F40s and Horizon cars. Amtrak units occasionally would substitute

1995-1999: VIA F40s and Superliners. Again, Amtrak units would periodically substitute.

The last five years from 1999 until 2004 saw single level cars used during the warmer months and Superliners in the winter. From '99 until about 2002, P32-8WHs were used for power, until Amtrak refitted a block of P42s (26-37, 126-128) for ITCS operation on the Michigan corridor. The train was discontinued in April, 2004 and replaced with the Chicago-Port Huron Blue Water.

Just nit-picking.

I agree, my wife and I rode The International in September of 1999, 2001 and 2002. It had Horizon cars and an Amfleet cafe each time with the exception of our return trip in 2002 when it had Superliners instead. It was all coaches not even a business class section on the cafe that I can remember. We had P42s each time except once we had the P32-8WH. I remember that Alcohol could not be sold Eastbound on the Canadian part of the run from Sarnia to Toronto. We had to skip the trip in 2003 and it was cut back in 2004 as we made the trip on the Wolverine to Detroit and caught a Via Rail Corridor train at Windsor.

 

[cpamtfan]

1. The Niagara Ranbow and International are two toatally different (discontinued0 trains. The Niagara Ranbow was originally a NY-DET(?) train VIA Canada( :lol: !) before VIA was even around!

I thought the New York-Detroit train was the Empire State Express (another resurrected name).

Nope, I'm pretty sure it was the Niagara Ranbow on the former ESE route.

 

[cpamtfan]

It was usually Superliner equipment, but on most occasions the VIA cars (forget name) and VIA F40 ran to CHI or Horizon cars (or a mix of both)! This train was discontinued 2004

The International started in 1982 and ran with the following equipment through the years:

1982-1990: Mix of either VIA LRC Locomotives and Tempo or LRC cars, or Amtrak F40s and Amfleets.

1990-1993: Amtrak F40s and Amfleets or VIA F40s and LRC cars (the former Amtrak LRCs were used on this route).

1993-1995: VIA F40s and Horizon cars. Amtrak units occasionally would substitute

1995-1999: VIA F40s and Superliners. Again, Amtrak units would periodically substitute.

The last five years from 1999 until 2004 saw single level cars used during the warmer months and Superliners in the winter. From '99 until about 2002, P32-8WHs were used for power, until Amtrak refitted a block of P42s (26-37, 126-128) for ITCS operation on the Michigan corridor. The train was discontinued in April, 2004 and replaced with the Chicago-Port Huron Blue Water.

Just nit-picking.

I saw a picture of it (probably early '90s) with VIA F40, VIA LRC coaches, and a Horizon coach (I guess the consist changed its consist alot).

 

[DET63]

1. The Niagara Ranbow and International are two toatally different (discontinued0 trains. The Niagara Ranbow was originally a NY-DET(?) train VIA Canada( :lol: !) before VIA was even around!

I thought the New York-Detroit train was the Empire State Express (another resurrected name).

Nope, I'm pretty sure it was the Niagara Ranbow on the former ESE route.

According to Wikipedia:

When Amtrak took over operation of the nation's passenger service on May 1, 1971 it consolidated all services over the New York—Albany—Buffalo corridor into the umbrella "Empire Service". Amtrak revived the same, although not the route to match, on January 6, 1974 when it granted individual names to all Empire Service trains. The Empire State Express returned as a New York—Buffalo service with numbers 71 and 78. On October 31 that year Amtrak extended the train all the way to Detroit via southern Ontario, Canada. On April 25, 1976 Amtrak renamed this service the Niagara Rainbow. Amtrak brought the name back again in 1978 as a New York—Buffalo service, which in 1979 was extended to Niagara Falls. The name dropped out of use when Amtrak ceased the practice of naming the individual trains on the Empire Corridor.[3]

 

[NS VIA FAN]

Here’s a couple of Amtrak Timetables

October 1978......The Niagara Rainbow is a New York <> Detroit train across southern Ontario with stops in Canada at St. Thomas and Windsor.

Summer 1995......The Niagara Rainbow is a New York <> Toronto ovrernight weekend only train with a Slumbercoach.

(Also note in the adjacent column, the Adirondack is shown as a through Montreal <> Washington train)

 

[Bob Dylan]

Thanks for the old timetables! Of interest is the quick border crossing times on the trains, looks like 10 minutes @ both Niagara Falls and Detroit! Also were the pax in transit from NY to Detroit considered not "in country", just in transit sort of like some airports are today?There is a general warning about customs and passports etc. noted but the times shown make it look like it was easy to cross the border on a train!

I have lots of friends in Ontario that used to use southern Ontario as a short cut from Michigan to New York, probably Americans also no doubt! And also the Amtrak thruway bus from Exchange St. station to Toronto was noted, when did that one stop? Might be am easier way to get there now instead of the cross border shuffle @ Niagara Falls?

 

[Donctor]

At some point in the near future, I'll have to post the Empire State Express brochure from the 1970s. It has a nice little map and describes the train as a way for vacationers, businesspeople and students to travel at low prices.

 

[goodnightjohnwayne]

In the Fall/Winter 1994/1995 National Timetable, the Niagara Rainbow and Maple Leaf are listed as having the following amenities:

Services On Board the Maple Leaf and Niagara Rainbow

Note—Between Niagara Falls, ON, and Toronto, trains are operated by VIA

Rail Canada in cooperation with Amtrak. Through fares/ticketing available.

Slumbercoach—Trains 62/65 only. New York-Toronto—Reservations

required. Single and double Slumbercoach rooms. First Class Service package

not provided. Accommodations available for occupancy in New York at 9:30 PM.

Coaches—Reservations Required.

Cafe Car—Sandwiches, snacks and beverages.

No Checked Baggage—Passengers may carry hand baggage on board.

My first question is this: Why is the Slumbercoach listed as being in the Niagara Rainbow's consist? I always thought that the sleeper went to Toronto on the International. Were they the same train? If so, when and why did the name change? Was "International" VIA's name, and "Niagara" Amtrak's?

Second question: Wasn't the sleeper a 10/6, not a Slumbercoach? Did it change in 1994 when the Capitol/City/Auto Train went Superliner? I don't remember any of those trains having Slumbercoaches as late as 1994, so where did these spares come from? The Montrealer?

Third question: Didn't one of the Empire trains have checked baggage? (I'm ignoring the Adirondack, which obviously got one later in the 1990s.) If the Maple Leaf and Niagara Rainbow are listed without one, what train was it placed on?

All of this is news to me.

I never remembered a sleeper or slumbercoach on the New York to Toronto Maple Leaf in the mid-90s, but considering the length of a trip, it does make more sense than the current daytime schedule.

How long did this last?

 

[NS VIA FAN]

I never remembered a sleeper or slumbercoach on the New York to Toronto Maple Leaf in the mid-90s, but considering the length of a trip, it does make more sense than the current daytime schedule.
How long did this last?

Not on the Maple Leaf, but on the Niagara Rainbow (schedule above) which lasted about 2 years, I believe 1995 was the last year it ran.

 

[Gord]

In the Fall/Winter 1994/1995 National Timetable, the Niagara Rainbow and Maple Leaf are listed as having the following amenities:

Services On Board the Maple Leaf and Niagara Rainbow

Note—Between Niagara Falls, ON, and Toronto, trains are operated by VIA

Rail Canada in cooperation with Amtrak. Through fares/ticketing available.

Slumbercoach—Trains 62/65 only. New York-Toronto—Reservations

required. Single and double Slumbercoach rooms. First Class Service package

not provided. Accommodations available for occupancy in New York at 9:30 PM.

Coaches—Reservations Required.

Cafe Car—Sandwiches, snacks and beverages.

No Checked Baggage—Passengers may carry hand baggage on board.

My first question is this: Why is the Slumbercoach listed as being in the Niagara Rainbow's consist? I always thought that the sleeper went to Toronto on the International. Were they the same train? If so, when and why did the name change? Was "International" VIA's name, and "Niagara" Amtrak's?

Second question: Wasn't the sleeper a 10/6, not a Slumbercoach? Did it change in 1994 when the Capitol/City/Auto Train went Superliner? I don't remember any of those trains having Slumbercoaches as late as 1994, so where did these spares come from? The Montrealer?

Third question: Didn't one of the Empire trains have checked baggage? (I'm ignoring the Adirondack, which obviously got one later in the 1990s.) If the Maple Leaf and Niagara Rainbow are listed without one, what train was it placed on?

Origin of the full name was many, many decades before Via and Amtrak. The original International Ltd. went back to Grand Trunk Railway of Canada days, later picked up by successor, Canadian National Railways. It was a Montreal-Toronto-Chicago train with sleepers. I remember seeing it as a kid in the sixties near Toronto, usually pulled by two GTW, "torpedo boat", geeps.

 

[International trains]

there is actually an exceptional set of stories by an author that calls himself niagara rainbow 63 on stories online

 

[NS VIA FAN]

Origin of the full name was many, many decades before Via and Amtrak. The original International Ltd. went back to Grand Trunk Railway of Canada days, later picked up by successor, Canadian National Railways. It was a Montreal-Toronto-Chicago train with sleepers. I remember seeing it as a kid in the sixties near Toronto, usually pulled by two GTW, "torpedo boat", geeps.

........And the original "Maple Leaf" was a joint Canadian National - Lehigh Valley Railroad train between Toronto and New York with through cars to Philadelphia. It was an overnight service and operated on a route via Wilkes-Barre, PA. Train was discontinued in Feb. 1961.