Is there a way to buy a one day pass to the metro lounge?

[AlanB]

Not to mention the fact that after asking how I was certain that I wasn't displacing someone in need, you decided that my explanations wasn't good enough since it didn't meet with your observations, and essentially called me a liar.

Here, let me remind you of what you asked.

When an able-bodied person uses a Redcap for the sole purpose of "buying" their way to the platform early, how are they making absolutely sure that they're not displacing another passenger with special needs who genuinely does need a Redcap and early boarding preference?

You asked, and I told you how I knew!

I was in the lounge. I saw his cart, the one he didn't even use. I sat on the nearly empty train, in a FC car with only 15 total passengers between Boston & NY, and there were only maybe 4 others who boarded the FC car in BO'S. The rest boarded at BBY & RTE & PVD. I watched my Redcap & the other one bring out additional people before the general boarding began; maybe 10 in total for a train that can carry 300. Yet somehow I deprived them of a prime seat. And somehow there were countless others in the station who never got help because of me!

I don't think so!

 

[Ryan]

I've made no rules up.

I must have missed the post where you cited a rule that said you couldn't use a Red Cap to get out to a train before other people.

Nope, I've just questioned the justification for doing so. And I am equally unable to find any citation from Amtrak that supports your self-serving narrative that it's appropriate to exploit a Red Cap's services in that way.

You don't need to find something in writing that says its OK to use a service offered by a redcap. If you're going to claim that it's wrong to use one if you are able bodied and without luggage, the onus is on you to provide a reference to support it.

You can't, so my statement that you are making rules up stands.

 

[Ozark Southern]

I've made no rules up.

I must have missed the post where you cited a rule that said you couldn't use a Red Cap to get out to a train before other people.

Nope, I've just questioned the justification for doing so. And I am equally unable to find any citation from Amtrak that supports your self-serving narrative that it's appropriate to exploit a Red Cap's services in that way.

You don't need to find something in writing that says its OK to use a service offered by a redcap. If you're going to claim that it's wrong to use one if you are able bodied and without luggage, the onus is on you to provide a reference to support it.

You can't, so my statement that you are making rules up stands.

I don't see the Red Caps as anything more or less than a hotel porter. The few times I've stayed in a nice enough hotel to have them, they've been all too eager to offer their services to me. I am 28 and in reasonably good health, so they obviously weren't concerned about only helping the disabled. I've never used a hotel porter or a Red Cap for the same reason--I don't want to pay someone else to do something I can easily do myself. But that's my choice. I've never felt that I would be somehow depriving someone else by purchasing a service made available to me. As with any business, high demand for any service yields high profits for that service, which enables the business to hire more people to perform the service. I think if so many people were using the Red Caps at a given station that there was a constant shortage, Amtrak would simply hire more Red Caps.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

You don't need to find something in writing that says its OK to use a service offered by a redcap. If you're going to claim that it's wrong to use one if you are able bodied and without luggage, the onus is on you to provide a reference to support it.

Two of us have already responded to this weak argument here.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Not to mention the fact that after asking how I was certain that I wasn't displacing someone in need, you decided that my explanations wasn't good enough since it didn't meet with your observations, and essentially called me a liar.

Here, let me remind you of what you asked.

When an able-bodied person uses a Redcap for the sole purpose of "buying" their way to the platform early, how are they making absolutely sure that they're not displacing another passenger with special needs who genuinely does need a Redcap and early boarding preference?

You asked, and I told you how I knew!

I was in the lounge. I saw his cart, the one he didn't even use. I sat on the nearly empty train, in a FC car with only 15 total passengers between Boston & NY, and there were only maybe 4 others who boarded the FC car in BO'S. The rest boarded at BBY & RTE & PVD. I watched my Redcap & the other one bring out additional people before the general boarding began; maybe 10 in total for a train that can carry 300. Yet somehow I deprived them of a prime seat. And somehow there were countless others in the station who never got help because of me!

I don't think so!

We've been through this already. You remain hung up on one day in Boston. I've heard and accept your explanation for that one instance. But if you read the question of mine you quoted, it is asking how ALL passengers who engage in this practice are ensuring that they are not displacing or delaying service to others in genuine need EVERY time they're doing it. I don't believe it's possible to know that for sure, which is why I take exception to the practice.

 

[Ryan]

You don't need to find something in writing that says its OK to use a service offered by a redcap. If you're going to claim that it's wrong to use one if you are able bodied and without luggage, the onus is on you to provide a reference to support it.

Two of us have already responded to this weak argument here.

No, that really doesn't address it. Some other poster making up the a similar rule makes your claim no more legitimate.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

You don't need to find something in writing that says its OK to use a service offered by a redcap. If you're going to claim that it's wrong to use one if you are able bodied and without luggage, the onus is on you to provide a reference to support it.

Two of us have already responded to this weak argument here.

No, that really doesn't address it. Some other poster making up the a similar rule makes your claim no more legitimate.

The only information Amtrak publishes about its Red Cap Service refers to it as a BAGGAGE HANDLING SERVICE. I'm still unable to find any reference substantiating that it is also a Bribe-Your-Way-To-The-Train-Early-Without-Luggage-Or-Other-Genuine-Needs Service. Your entitled to distort the Red Cap's role to comport with your desire to continue defending and engaging in the practice. And I am entitled to call it what it really is. That's how this thing ends. Diminishing returns as I said, and see if you can resist your predictable compulsion to squeeze the last word in on this tedious post. I'm done and off to enjoy my day in Chicago.  

 

[Ryan]

So by that metric, disabled people that don't have any bags shouldn't be using it either, since it's a BAGGAGE HANDLING SERVICE, right?

The disconnect is at a very fundamental level. You claim that unless the activity is specifically permitted by Amtrak, it's against "the rules".

My claim is that unless it is expressly forbidden, Red Caps are allowed to serve whomever they please.

Since obviously, Red Caps serve people without bags all the time, the real world seems to agree with Alan and I.

You're entitled to distort these made up rules in your head all you like, but I wouldn't suggest trying to enforce them on anyone around you.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Alan B already beat you to the punch with the disabled passenger/no luggage query. Amtrak has an extensive safety net established for disabled folks, part of which they do call upon Red Caps to participate in. That's between Amtrak and the Red Caps. But I would be willing to bet my last dollar that Amtrak does not officially approve of the Red Caps function as a Bribe-Your-Way-To-The-Train-Early-Without-Luggage-Or-Other-Genuine-Needs Service. Have they made an official declaration that using Red Caps in that capacity contravenes the primary purpose for which they were hired? No. And that seems to be the only thing your camp hangs its hat on. And of course the Red Caps themselves approve of it since they're financially incented to do so, even if the practice is of questionable integrity when it impedes their ability to expeditiously serve others with real assistance needs.

I continue to believe that Amtrak hires Red Caps to assist its passengers with their baggage and lend a helping hand to pax who require special assistance such as those with disabilities or health conditions. Both are acts of goodness and I applaud the dedication that Red Caps bring to this important work.

On the other hand, I believe that Amtrak did not hire Red Caps as a bribing mechanism for impatient passengers absent genuine needs to bribe their way to the train early ahead of everyone else just to satisfy their own self-interests. This strikes me as a self-serving practice that runs the risk of impacting others in a negative way. A Red Cap's complicity in this act doesn't endorse its appropriateness due to the aforementioned reasons regarding financial self-interest. My question stands and remains unanswered by those of you who do it -- How are you who engage in this practice ensuring that you are NEVER displacing or delaying service to others in genuine need EVERY time you're doing it? If you could guarantee that this was never happening, I would withdraw my objection and be on my way. Since such a guarantee cannot possibly be made, you continue to pursue your self interests at the risk of negatively impacting others with genuine needs for Red Cap assistance.

Those who have championed this practice in the past appear to be the same ones most vociferously objecting to being challenged on it now. No surprise there. I know you will continue to do what you do, and that's fine. As far as acting as an enforcer, aside from my years playing ice hockey, it's not my style these days. But I can and do speak up out on the road when I see things that strike me as impolite or uncool, and that will never stop. Fortunately, my faith in humanity has continued to be upheld by what I experience and observe out there, so I'm not forced to speak up all too often.    

 

[Ryan]

Alan B already beat you to the punch with the disabled passenger/no luggage query.    

Just another example of your backwards "if Amtrak doesn't say it is allowed, then you're not to do it!" mentality.

Those who have championed this practice in the past appear to be the same ones most vociferously objecting to being challenged on it now. No surprise there. I know you will continue to do what you do, and that's fine.

Actually, I've never had occasion to do it, but I do appreciate your permission to do something that isn't against the rules.

The only vociferous objection I have to some stranger on the internet making up rules and passing judgement on other based on those imaginary rules.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Um? Wonder if the Red Caps would be kept busy (therefore earning thier paychecks) if ONLY people with baggage or needing special assistance used them. Just a thought.

I have mixed feelings about using them for just getting on the train ahead of the crowd, but, if they're there and there's no "rule" saying someone cannot use them for this purpose, who am I to say it 's wrong. And as far as rules go, I'm sure we all break some (speed limits, driving on the shoulder where it's not allowed, etc) at some point or another...and these can have a negative affect on others.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

Alan B already beat you to the punch with the disabled passenger/no luggage query.

Just another example of your backwards "if Amtrak doesn't say it is allowed, then you're not to do it!" mentality.

Those who have championed this practice in the past appear to be the same ones most vociferously objecting to being challenged on it now. No surprise there. I know you will continue to do what you do, and that's fine.

Actually, I've never had occasion to do it, but I do appreciate your permission to do something that isn't against the rules.

The only vociferous objection I have to some stranger on the internet making up rules and passing judgement on other based on those imaginary rules.

Your critical thinking skills will set you free.

 

[AlanB]

Not to mention the fact that after asking how I was certain that I wasn't displacing someone in need, you decided that my explanations wasn't good enough since it didn't meet with your observations, and essentially called me a liar.

Here, let me remind you of what you asked.

When an able-bodied person uses a Redcap for the sole purpose of "buying" their way to the platform early, how are they making absolutely sure that they're not displacing another passenger with special needs who genuinely does need a Redcap and early boarding preference?

You asked, and I told you how I knew!

I was in the lounge. I saw his cart, the one he didn't even use. I sat on the nearly empty train, in a FC car with only 15 total passengers between Boston & NY, and there were only maybe 4 others who boarded the FC car in BO'S. The rest boarded at BBY & RTE & PVD. I watched my Redcap & the other one bring out additional people before the general boarding began; maybe 10 in total for a train that can carry 300. Yet somehow I deprived them of a prime seat. And somehow there were countless others in the station who never got help because of me!

I don't think so!

We've been through this already. You remain hung up on one day in Boston. I've heard and accept your explanation for that one instance. But if you read the question of mine you quoted, it is asking how ALL passengers who engage in this practice are ensuring that they are not displacing or delaying service to others in genuine need EVERY time they're doing it. I don't believe it's possible to know that for sure, which is why I take exception to the practice.

Yes, we have been through this already.

And just like the last time I'll say once again that while I'm relating the minute details of my last trip, some of what I've stated multiple times applies to every time I've used a Redcap in Boston. Times with luggage and times without luggage. Times with my 78 year old mother with me and times without her.

When in Boston and the FC car is at the rear of the train, one if they choose to pay attention, can see each and every time a Redcap goes by. And again, a Redcap in Boston can easily handle 10 to 15 people per trip and their bags on the large carts. I have yet to see a Redcap ever have that many people at one time.

So I can guarantee that I'm not displacing someone in need when I have never been taken to a train by a Redcap with more than 7 or 8 people in total. They could be handling many more people in just that one trip. And in Boston, there is time for every Redcap to make at least 2 trips before the gate is opened for general boarding.

If there is someone in need, then the failure is theirs for not asking for help or showing up too late to be taken out with the first group.

 

[AlanB]

I'm still unable to find any reference substantiating that it is also a Bribe-Your-Way-To-The-Train-Early-Without-Luggage-Or-Other-Genuine-Needs Service. Your entitled to distort the Red Cap's role to comport with your desire to continue defending and engaging in the practice. And I am entitled to call it what it really is.

And here's another point that you still fail to understand. As a First Class customer on Acela, I'm entitled to early boarding on the Acela in Boston. All I need to do is walk up to the gate attendant (assuming that they're actually there and doing their job) and show my first class ticket and I'm allowed to board the train ahead of those in BC.

No bribes needed!

Down in DC, I don't even need to be in FC, as long as I can get into the lounge I get early boarding.

No bribes needed!

In NY & Philly there is no such thing as early boarding. I'm typically boarding the train at the same time that the Redcaps are putting people on the train and I never even asked for a Redcap. The train simply isn't in the station long enough for the Redcaps to provide early boarding.

 

[AlanB]

And of course the Red Caps themselves approve of it since they're financially incented to do so, even if the practice is of questionable integrity when it impedes their ability to expeditiously serve others with real assistance needs.

And again and again, you continue to claim that the practice of taking someone able bodied with or without luggage somehow impedes the Redcaps ability to serve those in real need. But you offer no proof of this, save one incident for which you have no details at all about in Seattle.

Yes, you saw someone come out late who appeared to need help. But you have no idea if that person arrived late. You have no idea if that person only decided to ask for help at the last minute. You have no idea if that person was unaware that they could get help and that perhaps on his way back from helping the first person the Redcap saw the second person and asked if they would like help. You have no idea if the first person did have some unseen disability, like asthma or maybe a bad back, that did warrant asking the Redcap for help.

You saw one incident where you know nothing other than the fact that the Redcap brought out one person who looked like they didn't need help and then brought out someone else later who did look like they need help. And from that you've concluded that bringing out the first person interfered with the second person's getting help in a timely manor.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

And of course the Red Caps themselves approve of it since they're financially incented to do so, even if the practice is of questionable integrity when it impedes their ability to expeditiously serve others with real assistance needs.

And again and again, you continue to claim that the practice of taking someone able bodied with or without luggage somehow impedes the Redcaps ability to serve those in real need. But you offer no proof of this, save one incident for which you have no details at all about in Seattle.

Yes, you saw someone come out late who appeared to need help. But you have no idea if that person arrived late. You have no idea if that person only decided to ask for help at the last minute. You have no idea if that person was unaware that they could get help and that perhaps on his way back from helping the first person the Redcap saw the second person and asked if they would like help. You have no idea if the first person did have some unseen disability, like asthma or maybe a bad back, that did warrant asking the Redcap for help.

You saw one incident where you know nothing other than the fact that the Redcap brought out one person who looked like they didn't need help and then brought out someone else later who did look like they need help. And from that you've concluded that bringing out the first person interfered with the second person's getting help in a timely manor.

Gee Alan, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, we have been through this too already. This goes way beyond just the incident in Seattle, which BTW I was finally able to confirm on the third day of the Builder when I was seated in the DC with the guy in question. I played dumb and asked him about using a Red Cap. And guess what? He launched into a diatribe about how this "trick" allows him to beat everyone else out to the train. Since I was sitting at Door 2 myself patiently waiting for the boarding announcement, I know he was helped before several elderly parties that deserved help first. Hmm, this all sounds a bit familiar! Folks in your camp will undoubtedly blame the Red Cap only for not prioritizing correctly. But I also blame the guy too since he shouldn't have been in the mix in the first place. As I have told YOU again and again, this incident in Seattle was merely the latest of many where it didn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that abuses were going down. I told you two days ago that we will never see eye to eye on this, and so be it. But let us put a fork in the discussion as it's beyond well done.         

 

[Ryan]

We're not going to see eye to eye on this -- that much is clear -- so I feel good that I've spoken my peace and will leave things at that for now.

I'm done and off to enjoy my day in Chicago.  

But let us put a fork in the discussion as it's beyond well done.         

If only you would follow though and actually give it up.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

 And you fulfilled your ever-so-predictable nature of squeezing in the last word, meaningless as it is. Yay Ryan! As for me, I am out on the rails and enjoying myself, this conversation notwithstanding.  

 

[AlanB]

This goes way beyond just the incident in Seattle, which BTW I was finally able to confirm on the third day of the Builder when I was seated in the DC with the guy in question. I played dumb and asked him about using a Red Cap. And guess what? He launched into a diatribe about how this "trick" allows him to beat everyone else out to the train. Since I was sitting at Door 2 myself patiently waiting for the boarding announcement, I know he was helped before several elderly parties that deserved help first. Hmm, this all sounds a bit familiar! Folks in your camp will undoubtedly blame the Red Cap only for not prioritizing correctly. But I also blame the guy too since he shouldn't have been in the mix in the first place. As I have told YOU again and again, this incident in Seattle was merely the latest of many where it didn't take a rocket scientist to deduce that abuses were going down. I told you two days ago that we will never see eye to eye on this, and so be it. But let us put a fork in the discussion as it's beyond well done.

Ok, so you nailed down that the guy was indeed trying to be first.

You still haven't nailed down why the Redcap moved people in the order that he did. You also still don't know when those elderly people asked for help. You don't know if perhaps one of them was in the bathroom, so the Redcap figured get the easy one out of the way. You have 1 detail out of many, yet you've drawn the conclusion that Mister "I want to be first" interfered with the Redcaps helping those other people.

And you also overlook the fact that if I have no luggage, then that increases the Redcap's ability to help others as he's got more room on his cart for still more bags. My walking along with a crowd of 15 people in no way diminishes his ability to help those other 15 people.

On those occasions when I do hand him a bag, I'm actually decreasing his ability to help others. And if it were to ever happen that he had so many bags, I'd be more than happy to roll/carry my bag out so as to not impact others. As member Diestledorf can testify to, I've already done that.

Chris does have valid need of a Redcap. On his first ride on Acela, I joined him for a run to Boston to point things out along the way. Chris had asked for a Redcap, when he came for us, his small hand truck was overwhelmed. So I carried my bag rather than add to the Redcap's burden. May have even carried Chris' bag too, I'm not real sure now.

I also like how you skipped right over the fact that I get priority boarding in Boston whether I use a Redcap or not, since of course that takes the wind right out of your sails.

 

[PRR 60]

...

I also like how you skipped right over the fact that I get priority boarding in Boston whether I use a Redcap or not, since of course that takes the wind right out of your sails.

How do you do that? I've only used the CA and Acela F twice out of BOS, but each time the only pax permitted to board ahead of general boarding were those being escorted by Red Caps. Others, including F pax, were told to wait by the agent at the ribbon barrier.

But, given that being the case, why then do you use a Red Cap when you have minimal luggage? Believe me, I would not use a Red Cap ever if it were just for handling luggage. My wife and I travel light, and not needing luggage assistance is a huge benefit of that behavior (for convenience, not cost). I don't use bell service at hotels, or curbside luggage service at airports (never check bags anyway). The only place I have ever used a Red Cap was at BOS, and the only reason was to get early boarding and hopefully grab a decent seat in F (of which there are relatively few). The only "luggage" we had was a single, 21" roll-aboard. I certainly do not need help with that.

One of those two times I got burned. Fans of "The Amazing Race" know how many times a team has been eliminated because they got a bad cab driver. Well, one time my wife and I got a bad Red Cap. While his associates and their customers moved briskly to the train, our guy moved about as fast as 90-year-old guy with a bad hip. We nearly laughed out loud at how slow he was. By the time we finally got to the F car (front of the train), every single-seat facing-pair was gone (what I really wanted): some by singles. Luckily, we got the last standard pair (with the truly rotten Acela tray tables). The next choice was a facing four-top. For a couple, looking across the table at strangers and playing footsie with them, that set-up stinks. Five bucks down the drain.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Acela needs pre-assigned seats. It does not have to be every seat. It could be half the F car, and two of the four BC cars. I'd be willing to pay a service charge for the privilege. When I pay $300+ for travel for two, and purchase that travel weeks in advance, I don't want to have to bribe a baggage handler to get decent seat (and maybe still not get it). With assigned seats, the whole Red Cap bribery deal goes away.

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

I also like how you skipped right over the fact that I get priority boarding in Boston whether I use a Redcap or not, since of course that takes the wind right out of your sails.

Give me a break and please resist the urge to pat yourself on the back. You have nothing to be crowing about here. Priority boarding as a group (that is those with First Class/Sleeper Class tickets) occurs all over the network and Amtrak has officially set it up that way. That's not the issue we're discussing here and you know it. We're talking about individuals who have distorted the Red Cap's role in order to exploit their services by bribing them to be selfishly ferried out to the train ahead of everyone else in the total absence of genuine needs. Call it what you want, and I'll call what it is.  

 

[amamba]

On a happier note, who wants to read my trip report from my ride on the 2153 today?! I posted a link in the trip report forum.

 

[AlanB]

I also like how you skipped right over the fact that I get priority boarding in Boston whether I use a Redcap or not, since of course that takes the wind right out of your sails.

Give me a break and please resist the urge to pat yourself on the back. You have nothing to be crowing about here. Priority boarding as a group (that is those with First Class/Sleeper Class tickets) occurs all over the network and Amtrak has officially set it up that way. That's not the issue we're discussing here and you know it. We're talking about individuals who have distorted the Red Cap's role in order to exploit their services by bribing them to be selfishly ferried out to the train ahead of everyone else in the total absence of genuine needs. Call it what you want, and I'll call what it is.

And I'll continue to call it you dodging the facts. You accused me of bribing to get ahead of the crowd. And that simply isn't true. I'm allowed to be ahead of the crowd no matter what. Whether I show my ticket to the gate agent or walk out with a Redcap, it's still me exercising that perk that Amtrak has granted those in FC.

You weren't being specific to your case in Seattle, you included me in that group and you insulted me! And that simply isn't true, as I don't have to part with any cash to be ahead of the crowd.

You also continue to ignore the fact that multiple people have told you that people aren't being deprived of service; yet you continue to ignore that. Even someone in a wheel chair has told you that's not the case. You may or may not be as well traveled as some here, but our collective experiences certainly trump you observations of the one incident that you have described for which you don't even have all of the facts, much less the other incidents that you haven't even told us about that supposedly leads you to your false conclusion.

You've offered NO factual evidence yet!

 

[ColdRain&Snow]

A few posters "have told you that people aren't being deprived of service." And?? Just because someone says something doesn't make it irrefutably true! Since nobody can possibly know how often this practice is negatively impacting others across the country on any given day, I wouldn't even take your statement seriously with a grain of salt for fear of wasting salt. Someone tells me what they think, and I should accept it blindly as universal fact? Get real Sir!

As for Alice, I did appreciate hearing from her as I always do. Let me remind you of what she said," I've only used a red cap a few times, and I use a wheelchair fulltime. From what I could tell..." So again, she was speaking on behalf a few experiences, hence I don't think we can draw any firm conclusions from a small sample of a few experiences.

Having ridden 40 (forty) long distance trains in just the past 7-8 months, I am not worried about being "trumped" by anyone here. I will gladly put my itineraries up against anyone on this site if we want to start talking about Amtrak experience. You will never be able to prove that what you're doing doesn't ever negatively impact others. YOU have offered NO factual evidence to the contrary except for an anecdote or two from Boston.

Hearing you out over the past few days has only greatly reinforced the convictions I have expressed about Red Cap abuses. I fail to see how this discussion with you is in any way productive at this point. I value my time and don't want to waste it continuing to chase the tails of this discussion with you. If you have anything new, insightful, or informative to add, please put it in a final post. If not, then give it a rest.

It's National Train Day tomorrow and I'm sure we both have plans to pursue in its honor. I surely do. To that end, I wish you a happy and fun NTD wherever it ends up taking you. 

 

[AlanB]

A few posters "have told you that people aren't being deprived of service." And?? Just because someone says something doesn't make it irrefutably true! Since nobody can possibly know how often this practice is negatively impacting others across the country on any given day, I wouldn't even take your statement seriously with a grain of salt for fear of wasting salt. Someone tells me what they think, and I should accept it blindly as universal fact? Get real Sir!

And yet you expect us to blindly accept that what you say is correct; that your unfounded and unsubstantiated accusations are true. You've offered even less than I have towards proving your case. It's time to get down off your high horse unless you have documented evidence. Or as you've said, "Get real Sir!" You're doing exactly what you're accusing me of, expecting us to blindly accept that you must be right despite zero evidence from you.

Simple common sense tells us that if Redcaps in Boston have been observed handling 7 to 8 people per trip; then my being taken out solo to a train did NOT deprive anyone of help.

Finally, if one someone tells you something, that doesn't irrefutably make it true. But again, we've had several someone's tell you the same thing. That tends to make them more believable than you, since no one is supporting your position.

As for Alice, I did appreciate hearing from her as I always do. Let me remind you of what she said," I've only used a red cap a few times, and I use a wheelchair fulltime. From what I could tell..." So again, she was speaking on behalf a few experiences, hence I don't think we can draw any firm conclusions from a small sample of a few experiences.

We have her samplings, mine, and several other peoples.

Having ridden 40 (forty) long distance trains in just the past 7-8 months, I am not worried about being "trumped" by anyone here. I will gladly put my itineraries up against anyone on this site if we want to start talking about Amtrak experience. You will never be able to prove that what you're doing doesn't ever negatively impact others. YOU have offered NO factual evidence to the contrary except for an anecdote or two from Boston.

We weren't comparing you to one other person. We were comparing you to multiple other people, whose collective riding does trump yours.

Next, what you really mean is that I will never be able to prove it to you because you refuse to accept what I'm saying.

And let me remind you that you've offered NO factual evidence of your position either.

Hearing you out over the past few days has only greatly reinforced the convictions I have expressed about Red Cap abuses. I fail to see how this discussion with you is in any way productive at this point. I value my time and don't want to waste it continuing to chase the tails of this discussion with you. If you have anything new, insightful, or informative to add, please put it in a final post. If not, then give it a rest.  

No, you haven't been hearing me. That's your problem! Anthony didn't elevate me to the position of Administrator because I was prone to lying or abusing the Amtrak system. He elevated me because he saw my factual posts over a number of years that helped many a member and many a guest.

But you're so wrapped up in this fantasy of yours that you refuse to see and/or hear anything that is contrary to the fantasy.