Late EB in Chicago

[Donald M]

The EB on the 25th from Chicago is apparently lost somewhere. Has it been cancelled and what do they do with passengers when the train doesn't go.

I'm scheduled on Aug 1 and am getting concerned about whether there will be a train.

 

[Acela150]

Keep in mind that the train could have left and it's just not reporting at stations. It's not listed as a service disruption so I would imagine it's just not reporting at a station yet.

But don't worry unless something goes wrong again the chances there will be a number 7 are good. If not Amtrak has to get you where your going! They will bus you or put you up in a hotel for the night on their dime! If you have a sleeper and sleepers are sold out the next day your stuck in coach.

If your booked with sleeper service take advantage of the Metropolitan Lounge in CHI. Just show your sleeper tickets! There's a place to store your bags which is guarded by a Red Cap.

 

[anir dendroica]

A few days ago the EB left Chicago four hours late, so I wouldn't worry just yet. Since the inbound #8 (which becomes today's #7) got in 13 hours late at 4:44 am last night, I would guess they are delayed in cleaning it and preparing it for departure.

...what do they do with passengers when the train doesn't go.

They call you and tell you the train is cancelled and you are out of luck (i.e. no alternate transportation provided).

 

[anir dendroica]

It's out of Chicago now, 3:37 late, almost guaranteed to turn in Spokane.

 

[EB_OBS]

It's out of Chicago now, 3:37 late, almost guaranteed to turn in Spokane.

I'll have to double-check but my information says it left 90 minutes late. 1537ct departure would be 82 mins late.

 

[Acela150]

It's out of Chicago now, 3:37 late, almost guaranteed to turn in Spokane.

It'll go all the way to PDX and SEA. They won't turn it for being 3 and a Half hours late. It's been later then that and it went through!

 

[NY Penn]

There is always the significant chance that it will lose time en route.

 

[Ispolkom]

There is always the significant chance that it will lose time en route.

This sentence gets my vote for best understatement of the month.

 

[anir dendroica]

There is a guarantee that it will lose at least 2-3 hours due to slow orders en route. There is a "significant chance" that it will lose more than that due to unpredictable factors (freight traffic, equipment issues, weather, etc.). One BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group estimates that it will take nearly a year (!) for BNSF to get all of the slow orders repaired. This is because flooding has damaged so much of the network that most resources will go toward restoring lines that are presently out of service and getting busy freight routes back up to speed. Thus some of the problems between Minot and Fargo won't be addressed until next summer.

What Amtrak REALLY NEEDS TO DO in this situation is simply to issue a new timetable with an additional 2-4 hours built into the schedule. The same thing should be done for the CZ right now, or rather it should have been done a month ago. Rather than saying "expect the train to be five hours late," why not adjust station times by five hours and say "expect the train to be on time."

I know schedule adjustments will play heck with connections to other trains, but I think people would much rather plan to miss connections than book "guaranteed connections" that they have almost no chance of actually making.

Mark

 

[Donald M]

I certainly agree, adjust the schedule so it is realistic. Also consider dropping a couple of daily departures each way until the system is up and running in a timely fashion.

 

[Acela150]

There is a guarantee that it will lose at least 2-3 hours due to slow orders en route. There is a "significant chance" that it will lose more than that due to unpredictable factors (freight traffic, equipment issues, weather, etc.). One BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group estimates that it will take nearly a year (!) for BNSF to get all of the slow orders repaired. This is because flooding has damaged so much of the network that most resources will go toward restoring lines that are presently out of service and getting busy freight routes back up to speed. Thus some of the problems between Minot and Fargo won't be addressed until next summer.

What Amtrak REALLY NEEDS TO DO in this situation is simply to issue a new timetable with an additional 2-4 hours built into the schedule. The same thing should be done for the CZ right now, or rather it should have been done a month ago. Rather than saying "expect the train to be five hours late," why not adjust station times by five hours and say "expect the train to be on time."

I know schedule adjustments will play heck with connections to other trains, but I think people would much rather plan to miss connections than book "guaranteed connections" that they have almost no chance of actually making.

Mark

Keep in mind BNSF/CP Rail would have to approve that timetable. I think they would reject it. Simply because BNSF and CP Rail runs SO MUCH freight between CHI and SEA/PDX. If you can convince Amtrak and BNSF and CP Rail to modify that schedule they congrats but they won't budge an inch unless it's needed. To them that timetable change isn't needed. Just my $0.02

 

[anir dendroica]

There is a guarantee that it will lose at least 2-3 hours due to slow orders en route. There is a "significant chance" that it will lose more than that due to unpredictable factors (freight traffic, equipment issues, weather, etc.). One BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group estimates that it will take nearly a year (!) for BNSF to get all of the slow orders repaired. This is because flooding has damaged so much of the network that most resources will go toward restoring lines that are presently out of service and getting busy freight routes back up to speed. Thus some of the problems between Minot and Fargo won't be addressed until next summer.

What Amtrak REALLY NEEDS TO DO in this situation is simply to issue a new timetable with an additional 2-4 hours built into the schedule. The same thing should be done for the CZ right now, or rather it should have been done a month ago. Rather than saying "expect the train to be five hours late," why not adjust station times by five hours and say "expect the train to be on time."

I know schedule adjustments will play heck with connections to other trains, but I think people would much rather plan to miss connections than book "guaranteed connections" that they have almost no chance of actually making.

Mark

Keep in mind BNSF/CP Rail would have to approve that timetable. I think they would reject it. Simply because BNSF and CP Rail runs SO MUCH freight between CHI and SEA/PDX. If you can convince Amtrak and BNSF and CP Rail to modify that schedule they congrats but they won't budge an inch unless it's needed. To them that timetable change isn't needed. Just my $0.02

I don't think it would be too hard to convince BNSF/CP to accept a slower schedule. The hard part would be convincing them to accept the normal schedule again after the track is repaired.

 

[Ispolkom]

This is because flooding has damaged so much of the network that most resources will go toward restoring lines that are presently out of service and getting busy freight routes back up to speed. Thus some of the problems between Minot and Fargo won't be addressed until next summer.

I'm wondering if this year's floods won't lead to BNSF abandoning some of those branch lines, at least in North Dakota (I'm thinking of the Grenora, Westhope, and Zap subs). I know that there were some questions about using the latest, biggest grain cars on some of the branch line bridges. Since grain customers are a captive market (and probably a much smaller one this year, because of flooded fields that can't be planted), I'd not be surprised if BNSF focuses on the mainline to keep market share with shippers who can switch to UP.

EDIT: Oh, if you were talking about the route Minot-Grand Forks-Fargo, and not the Surrey cut-off, you're right, I think. That's going to be low on the list of priorities.

 

[Acela150]

There is a guarantee that it will lose at least 2-3 hours due to slow orders en route. There is a "significant chance" that it will lose more than that due to unpredictable factors (freight traffic, equipment issues, weather, etc.). One BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group estimates that it will take nearly a year (!) for BNSF to get all of the slow orders repaired. This is because flooding has damaged so much of the network that most resources will go toward restoring lines that are presently out of service and getting busy freight routes back up to speed. Thus some of the problems between Minot and Fargo won't be addressed until next summer.

What Amtrak REALLY NEEDS TO DO in this situation is simply to issue a new timetable with an additional 2-4 hours built into the schedule. The same thing should be done for the CZ right now, or rather it should have been done a month ago. Rather than saying "expect the train to be five hours late," why not adjust station times by five hours and say "expect the train to be on time."

I know schedule adjustments will play heck with connections to other trains, but I think people would much rather plan to miss connections than book "guaranteed connections" that they have almost no chance of actually making.

Mark

Keep in mind BNSF/CP Rail would have to approve that timetable. I think they would reject it. Simply because BNSF and CP Rail runs SO MUCH freight between CHI and SEA/PDX. If you can convince Amtrak and BNSF and CP Rail to modify that schedule they congrats but they won't budge an inch unless it's needed. To them that timetable change isn't needed. Just my $0.02

I don't think it would be too hard to convince BNSF/CP to accept a slower schedule. The hard part would be convincing them to accept the normal schedule again after the track is repaired.

Which is like saying why bother.

 

[AlanB]

There is a guarantee that it will lose at least 2-3 hours due to slow orders en route. There is a "significant chance" that it will lose more than that due to unpredictable factors (freight traffic, equipment issues, weather, etc.). One BNSF employee on the EB Yahoo Group estimates that it will take nearly a year (!) for BNSF to get all of the slow orders repaired. This is because flooding has damaged so much of the network that most resources will go toward restoring lines that are presently out of service and getting busy freight routes back up to speed. Thus some of the problems between Minot and Fargo won't be addressed until next summer.

What Amtrak REALLY NEEDS TO DO in this situation is simply to issue a new timetable with an additional 2-4 hours built into the schedule. The same thing should be done for the CZ right now, or rather it should have been done a month ago. Rather than saying "expect the train to be five hours late," why not adjust station times by five hours and say "expect the train to be on time."

I know schedule adjustments will play heck with connections to other trains, but I think people would much rather plan to miss connections than book "guaranteed connections" that they have almost no chance of actually making.

Mark

Keep in mind BNSF/CP Rail would have to approve that timetable. I think they would reject it. Simply because BNSF and CP Rail runs SO MUCH freight between CHI and SEA/PDX. If you can convince Amtrak and BNSF and CP Rail to modify that schedule they congrats but they won't budge an inch unless it's needed. To them that timetable change isn't needed. Just my $0.02

I don't think it would be too hard to convince BNSF/CP to accept a slower schedule. The hard part would be convincing them to accept the normal schedule again after the track is repaired.

From what I hear, you'd be surprised at how hard it is to get the RR's to agree to a schedule change.

 

[EB_OBS]

It's out of Chicago now, 3:37 late, almost guaranteed to turn in Spokane.

I'll have to double-check but my information says it left 90 minutes late. 1537ct departure would be 82 mins late.

Well, sure enough i did leave 3:37 late. My initial post reflected an estimated delay but I didn't realize the train didn't depart and I didn't get another update.

Looks like it was 4 hrs and 13 min late out of Redwing.

 

[jt83]

Does anyone know if its only been one train this week that didn't make it all the way to Seattle? I'm leaving Chi on Thurs headed to Seattle, I know they bus people from Spokane to Seattle if they stop the train there but I'm travelling in an accessible room with someone who wouldn't be able to travel that far on a bus.

 

[PRR 60]

Does anyone know if its only been one train this week that didn't make it all the way to Seattle? I'm leaving Chi on Thurs headed to Seattle, I know they bus people from Spokane to Seattle if they stop the train there but I'm travelling in an accessible room with someone who wouldn't be able to travel that far on a bus.

In the last week (CHI departures 7/18 to 7/24), four made it to Seattle, three did not.

 

[junebug]

I was on that train! It left Seattle an hour late. By the time I got on at West Glacier, Montana, it was 3 hours late. We eventually arrived in Chicago 14 hours late.

The nice thing about Amtrak is they take car of their passengers. All the people that missed connections were put up in hotels and given money for meals. I didn't miss my connection, as I was going to Chicago. But they fed us all dinner anyways. I think that was very nice. What airline would do the same?

Go Amtrak! I love you.

 

[jmbgeg]

Does anyone know if its only been one train this week that didn't make it all the way to Seattle? I'm leaving Chi on Thurs headed to Seattle, I know they bus people from Spokane to Seattle if they stop the train there but I'm travelling in an accessible room with someone who wouldn't be able to travel that far on a bus.

In the last week (CHI departures 7/18 to 7/24), four made it to Seattle, three did not.

I assume the same was true with 27. I am traveling to PDX next week and hope to avoid the bus two trips in a row.

 

[jt83]

Does anyone know if its only been one train this week that didn't make it all the way to Seattle? I'm leaving Chi on Thurs headed to Seattle, I know they bus people from Spokane to Seattle if they stop the train there but I'm travelling in an accessible room with someone who wouldn't be able to travel that far on a bus.

Thanks for this info! Do you happen to know which ones didn't make it all the way to Seattle? How many hours late were they by the time they reached Spokane?

 

[George B]

Keep in mind BNSF/CP Rail would have to approve that timetable. I think they would reject it. Simply because BNSF and CP Rail runs SO MUCH freight between CHI and SEA/PDX. If you can convince Amtrak and BNSF and CP Rail to modify that schedule they congrats but they won't budge an inch unless it's needed. To them that timetable change isn't needed. Just my $0.02

I don't think it would be too hard to convince BNSF/CP to accept a slower schedule. The hard part would be convincing them to accept the normal schedule again after the track is repaired.

Which is like saying why bother.

There are many, many small individual operations associated with a train schedule that would have to be changed as well (station hours, vendors, maintenance, employee scheduling). Amtrak has no interest in doing it for that reason alone. The host RR will allow you to change the schedule, but you will lose any priority or slots that might exist if you compete/conflict with their traffic on a new schedule. So, as you correctly say….why should they bother?

In the end, it is also a pain to have to revert back to an older schedule once the restrictions have been removed and “normal” operations can commence. Are you going to have the train sit in Fargo or Staples, MN for three hours when they arrive early because old schedule is not back in place yet? Schedule changes have to be done with the goal of permanence.

 

[PRR 60]

Thanks for this info! Do you happen to know which ones didn't make it all the way to Seattle? How many hours late were they by the time they reached Spokane?

Actually, from 7/18 through 7/24, two of seven trains were truncated in Spokane, not three. What looked like #3 was the 7/24 CHI departure, but that one is going through, although 4hr 40min late.

Once the decision is made to halt the train at Spokane, the public status goes to "Service Disruption", and arrival times from that point on are not posted. The two trains that did not make it were:

- CHI departure 7/21: last reported arrival, Williston ND - 6hr 6min late

- CHI departure 7/23: last reported arrival, Havre MT - 8hr 0min late

 

[EB_OBS]

Thanks for this info! Do you happen to know which ones didn't make it all the way to Seattle? How many hours late were they by the time they reached Spokane?

Actually, from 7/18 through 7/24, two of seven trains were truncated in Spokane, not three. What looked like #3 was the 7/24 CHI departure, but that one is going through, although 4hr 40min late.

Once the decision is made to halt the train at Spokane, the public status goes to "Service Disruption", and arrival times from that point on are not posted. The two trains that did not make it were:

- CHI departure 7/21: last reported arrival, Williston ND - 6hr 6min late

- CHI departure 7/23: last reported arrival, Havre MT - 8hr 0min late

You can add 7(25) to that list. Currently it's operating nearly 10 hours late into Whitefish.

 

[jmbgeg]

Thanks for this info! Do you happen to know which ones didn't make it all the way to Seattle? How many hours late were they by the time they reached Spokane?

Actually, from 7/18 through 7/24, two of seven trains were truncated in Spokane, not three. What looked like #3 was the 7/24 CHI departure, but that one is going through, although 4hr 40min late.

Once the decision is made to halt the train at Spokane, the public status goes to "Service Disruption", and arrival times from that point on are not posted. The two trains that did not make it were:

- CHI departure 7/21: last reported arrival, Williston ND - 6hr 6min late

- CHI departure 7/23: last reported arrival, Havre MT - 8hr 0min late

You can add 7(25) to that list. Currently it's operating nearly 10 hours late into Whitefish.

I am traveling on 27 on 8/3 connecting to 11 southbound. The slowdowns in North Dakota and eastern Montana seem to be ongoing and on some days, so bad that they would misconnect with 11's PDX departure. Guess I may end up on a second straight bus to Portland. :angry2: