Legislation to Provide Permanent Funding for Amtrak

[crescent-zephyr]

Actually if you bothered to read the entire thing you quoted it is entirely accurate. But why lose an opportunity to yell?

I wasn’t debating that part of the quote. They did indeed lose money in 2018 & 2019.

 

[TheCrescent]

Innovation like flex meals?

Private sector is usually focused on providing the minimum quality or level of service they can get away with while maximizing their stock price. IMHO, it's not even about profits anymore, except as a means to maximize stock price.

How about if we compare first class on Amtrak vs. first class on Brightline or American Airlines?

Since Amtrak is micromanaged by ideological morons in Congress, it has to cut, regardless of the impact on revenue. Amtrak has slashed meal service quality and doesn't offer many luxuries in its sleeping cars.

Compare Brightline and American Airlines: they aren't micromanaged by ideological morons in Congress, they can seek to maximize profits, even if that means spending more on first-class customers. Lounges, on-board amenities, etc. are generally far nicer than on Amtrak. Brightline in particular is way snazzier.

It sounds like you are making an argument in favor of privatization. Haven't we seen how that plays out?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti..., which owned and,trains on the various lines.

Nope. I'm making an argument to seek funds from the private sector where feasible, instead of relying solely on government.

We've seen how privatization has played out. As long as sufficient funding is obtained, it has often resulted in lower costs in providing rail service and higher ridership. Both in the UK and around Europe. And same for freight railroads, airlines and anything else that's been unshackled to operate freely.

Note: I draw the line at doing anything that would reduce passenger rail service frequency or routes. Some advocates of privatization simply say "cut off government support", knowing full well that simply ending government support means an end to Amtrak. By "privatization", I mean "find ways to seek private-sector revenues where feasible". I don't mean "cut off government support". I'd just like to get to a place in the future at which Amtrak could be supported by at least some private-sector funds, reducing the need to count on Federal dollars.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

How about if we compare first class on Amtrak vs. first class on Brightline or American Airlines?

The only first class Amtrak offers is on the Acela. I've heard it's pretty good.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

How about if we compare first class on Amtrak vs. first class on Brightline or American Airlines?

Since Amtrak is micromanaged by ideological morons in Congress, it has to cut, regardless of the impact on revenue. Amtrak has slashed meal service quality and doesn't offer many luxuries in its sleeping cars.

Compare Brightline and American Airlines: they aren't micromanaged by ideological morons in Congress, they can seek to maximize profits, even if that means spending more on first-class customers. Lounges, on-board amenities, etc. are generally far nicer than on Amtrak. Brightline in particular is way snazzier.

To be fair, AA doesn’t offer any first class lounges to domestic first class passengers. The fact that Amtrak offers a legit lounge to business class tickets at Chicago is pretty impressive.

Up until flex dining, Amtrak food service was better than 1st class on AA and Delta imho although the free drinks, warm towels, etc. are nice.

 

[Exvalley]

Up until flex dining, Amtrak food service was better than 1st class on AA and Delta imho although the free drinks, warm towels, etc. are nice.

There are also a lot fewer meals being served by the airlines in first class than there used to be. That said, they have upped their game on some select (and highly competitive) transcon routes. And yes, there is no lounge access with a domestic first class ticket. This is one reason why I try to fly Air Canada out of Montreal to locations in the United States.

If we really want to compare apples to apples, I would definitely say that Acela first class is a better experience than airline first class between Washington-New York-Boston.

 

[Cal]

Up until flex dining, Amtrak food service was better than 1st class on AA and Delta imho although the free drinks, warm towels, etc. are nice.

I'm surprised to hear that. As even before flex dining the meals weren't consistent and some weren't that good. I've always thought that 1st class meals, even on American carriers, were just as good, if not better than traditional dining

 

[Cal]

If we really want to compare apples to apples, I would definitely say that Acela first class is a better experience than airline first class between Washington-New York-Boston.

You know, I wonder why Amtrak doesn't have a nicer lounge in DC. I've heard that it's not that great.

 

[Dakota 400]

I will predict that this Bill or something very much like it will be included in a very large infrastructure Bill that will pass the House. Then, it gets to the Senate where it is likely to get "stuck" unless an acceptable way to pay--fully or partially--for the cost of this infrastructure Bill has bipartisan agreement.

After 4 years of not caring about the deficit, the Party of the former President has suddenly gotten concerned about being fiscally responsible. Again.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

You know, I wonder why Amtrak doesn't have a nicer lounge in DC. I've heard that it's not that great.

The lounge in DC is nice, but it's smaller than Chicago's and the new lounge in NYC

 

[jiml]

I've always thought that 1st class meals, even on American carriers, were just as good, if not better than traditional dining

Only on the longest and most lucrative routes. It's hit or miss and depends on a lot of factors, including time of day. Some long routes will feature nothing, others will pleasantly surprise and the rest are somewhere in-between.

 

[zephyr17]

The only first class Amtrak offers is on the Acela. I've heard it's pretty good.

It's okay. I rode it once (NYP-BOS) as part of going NOL-BOS. I paid the extra just to see what it was like, and I don't get that many opportunities to ride the NEC. It is about like domestic First Class air. The dinner they served was okay, it was not nearly as good as the food served on the Crescent, which still had full traditional dining then. I count myself lucky to have experienced traditional dining in a Viewliner II diner, which are beautiful cars.

I wouldn't pay for it again. Once was enough, it's not worth it to me. When in the Northeast, it's back to NE Regionals for me.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

There are also a lot fewer meals being served by the airlines in first class than there used to be.

I was always provided a meal in 1st class domestic except for extremely short hops that only got drinks and snack service. (Obviously before covid, ymmv).

You know, I wonder why Amtrak doesn't have a nicer lounge in DC. I've heard that it's not that great.

The DC lounge is fine. Not as modern as Chicago and now New York but it provides direct access to the tracks without going back into the main station so that’s a huge win in my book.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I'm surprised to hear that. As even before flex dining the meals weren't consistent and some weren't that good. I've always thought that 1st class meals, even on American carriers, were just as good, if not better than traditional dining

It depends. For 1, there is never as much variety as a traditional dining car menu. Usually there are 2 meal options and a Charcuterie plate option. A full service Amtrak dining car has a decent amount of options (steak, fish, chicken, vegetarian entree, entree salad, and burgers = 6 options, a dinner special would make it 7.)

The quality on the airlines is good though, certainly better than flex meals.

 

[TheCrescent]

To be fair, AA doesn’t offer any first class lounges to domestic first class passengers. The fact that Amtrak offers a legit lounge to business class tickets at Chicago is pretty impressive.

Up until flex dining, Amtrak food service was better than 1st class on AA and Delta imho although the free drinks, warm towels, etc. are nice.

AA offers first class lounges to international business/first passengers. AA also offers free Admirals Club access to higher-tier elites.

AA lounges are nicer (better and more food and drinks) than Amtrak ones. I went to the Philadelphia Amtrak lounge recently and the staff is great, and the room is certainly nice, but there was no bar or wide range of food.

I found Amtrak dining pre-flexible dining to be fine, but AA first class dinners were better (steak on a DFW-LGA flight was great) in my view, and more elegant.

I've had hot towels recently on the Acela in first class. I find Acela first class to be very nice, and about the same as AA first class (but for the food).

Long-distance first class on Amtrak is just a banged-up room and a microwaved meal plus lounge access (which I don't need, as I arrive at the station right before boarding starts). I'd revolt over conditions on the Crescent but I'm not interested in flying during the pandemic.

 

[Exvalley]

I was always provided a meal in 1st class domestic except for extremely short hops that only got drinks and snack service. (Obviously before covid, ymmv).

Those days are gone, and we’re gone pre-COVID. They really cut back on the flights that offered a full meal.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Those days are gone, and we’re gone pre-COVID. They really cut back on the flights that offered a full meal.

That was not my experience pre-covid but as always YMMV.

 

[MisterUptempo]

I will predict that this Bill or something very much like it will be included in a very large infrastructure Bill that will pass the House. Then, it gets to the Senate where it is likely to get "stuck" unless an acceptable way to pay--fully or partially--for the cost of this infrastructure Bill has bipartisan agreement.

After 4 years of not caring about the deficit, the Party of the former President has suddenly gotten concerned about being fiscally responsible. Again.

I believe Biden is lucky enough to have a second reconciliation in his back pocket this year, and will likely use it on a massive infrastructure bill. I think we might even be able to get Manchin and Sinema on board this time for the 50 + 1 votes needed to get the bill passed in the Senate.

 

[Cal]

Only on the longest and most lucrative routes. It's hit or miss and depends on a lot of factors, including time of day. Some long routes will feature nothing, others will pleasantly surprise and the rest are somewhere in-between.

Okay, thanks

 

[jiml]

AA offers first class lounges to international business/first passengers. AA also offers free Admirals Club access to higher-tier elites.

As an AA LTP I'm going to have to take issue with that statement. You're not entirely wrong, but some clarification is needed. AA has two levels of lounge. Their first class Flagship lounges are only available to top tier flyers of theirs and their partner airlines when flying on an international itinerary. The Admirals Club business-level lounges are available to lower-tier flyers such as myself on international itineraries, but no AA lounge access is provided to any member in EXP or below when flying domestic. (Canada counts as domestic btw.) We can purchase Admirals Club membership at significantly discounted rates, but it ain't free.

Other airlines are far more permissive. I can buy a business ticket on Air Canada and get UA lounge access and Alaska includes access with any FC ticket, whether you even belong to their program.

AA lounges are nicer (better and more food and drinks) than Amtrak ones. I went to the Philadelphia Amtrak lounge recently and the staff is great, and the room is certainly nice, but there was no bar or wide range of food.

I always thought the Chicago Amtrak lounge was the equal of AA's lounges at O'Hare, where the offerings are actually pretty meagre. If you want a nice lounge in Chicago, I recommend UA's.

I found Amtrak dining pre-flexible dining to be fine, but AA first class dinners were better (steak on a DFW-LGA flight was great) in my view, and more elegant.

Again, a steak on AA between DFW and LGA is rare - no pun intended. If you are outside the dinner hour there is seldom more than a sandwich and a "baked-onboard" cookie on that route and the afternoon flight (which I've taken several times) nets you a drink and warm nuts. Even my last AA flight pre-Covid (CLT-SFO), which could be described as trans-continental, featured only one hot entree (pasta), a cold chicken salad or the charcuterie platter. As I said in an earlier post, it really is hit or miss. DFW-LGA and DFW-ORD are key business routes for AA and will feature better options during the dinner hour, but the rest of the time - meh. As was pointed out in the recent Jeb Brooks comparison video that someone posted elsewhere here, he got nothing in FC on AA and a decent meal on Amtrak between the same two endpoints. As always, your mileage may vary.

Edited to add link to already-posted video I referred to:

Jeb Brooks just released an Acela vs Air between NYC and DC. He said the Salmon was good.

On another note, the video was great, but I'm sorry to say the plane won by an hour.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

AA lounges are nicer (better and more food and drinks) than Amtrak ones. I went to the Philadelphia Amtrak lounge recently and the staff is great, and the room is certainly nice, but there was no bar or wide range of food.

Due to COVID-19. The lounge is Chicago also does not have food or drinks due to the pandemic. So, yeah, you can't compare them during the pandemic.

 

[TheCrescent]

Due to COVID-19. The lounge is Chicago also does not have food or drinks due to the pandemic. So, yeah, you can't compare them during the pandemic.

Where is the bar in the Philadelphia Metropolitan Lounge? I didn’t even see a closed bar there.

I visited the ClubAcelas a few times pre-COVID. Soft drinks, wrapped pastries and bags of snack food were all that I ever saw.

No bar, no counters with a range of hot and cold foods, nobody making avocado toast to order, etc. Not comparable.

Brightline’s lounges had unlimited wine. Now that was nice!

 

[TheCrescent]

JimL, AA has offered a free Admirals Club membership before for high-level elites.

And on my 19-minute flight on AA in first class (between a hub and a smaller city), drinks both before departure and in the air plus a snack basket in the air are standard.

So your post needs clarification.

And let’s talk about NOW (and ever since Flexible Dining started, pre-COVID):

On a 14-hour trip overnight on the Crescent in first class, all I get is Flexible Dining breakfast: a few items of prepackaged food and drinks. I could get them all at a convenience store. The train arrives after 1pm in NYC, but I don’t get lunch.

Oh, I forgot: I get unlimited bottles of water and maybe one alcoholic drink, which helps dull the hunger pangs.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

JimL, AA has offered a free Admirals Club membership before for high-level elites.

And on my 19-minute flight on AA in first class (between a hub and a smaller city), drinks both before departure and in the air plus a snack basket in the air are standard.

So your post needs clarification.

And let’s talk about NOW (and ever since Flexible Dining started, pre-COVID):

On a 14-hour trip overnight on the Crescent in first class, all I get is Flexible Dining breakfast: a few items of prepackaged food and drinks. I could get them all at a convenience store. The train arrives after 1pm in NYC, but I don’t get lunch.

Oh, I forgot: I get unlimited bottles of water and maybe one alcoholic drink, which helps dull the hunger pangs.

The Crescent does not have First Class. It has coaches and sleepers. Amtrak does not call sleeper passengers First Class.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The Crescent does not have First Class. It has coaches and sleepers. Amtrak does not call sleeper passengers First Class.

They have in the past.

 

[jiml]

Redacted, in the interest of getting back on-topic.