Main CZ #5 & 6 Discussion Thread

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Peter Richards

Guest
Date: Thursday, 25 August 2011, 2 pm, MDT

I am registered on this board, but cannot get password crap to work.... frustrating... !!

I am one of the group of Denver and Grand Junction 'Trails and Rails' volunteer guides on board the CZ between Denver and Grand Junction. We do this program four days per week in the summer, in both directions.

The CZ westbound has been terribly late all summer, as most of you know.

Today's train #5, is 11 hours and 45 minutes late arriving in DEN. It left CHI 8 minutes late yesterday.

Yesterday's train got to DEN 12 hours and 45 minutes late. It left CHI 1 hour and 20 minutes late yesterday.

In the last 4 weeks, the westbound CZ, # 5, has been an 'average' of 445 minutes late arriving in DEN.

445 minutes is 7.4 hours...

The eastbound CZ #6, has been an 'average' of 122 minutes late arriving in DEN. 122 minutes is 2 hours.

Source: http://www.amtrakdelays.onlineschedulingsoftware.com/cgi-bin/train.cgi

Question...

1. When are we going to get back to the good old days of the CZ # 5 being 2 - 3 hours late in DEN. ?

A related problem for new passengers originating in DEN, is they do not know to check if the train is on time,

they get to the DEN station assuming the train is on time. Our Trails and Rails people have had numerous reports of

this problem from passengers.... this summer.

Amtrak has to do a better job of communicating to check if your train is on time... especially to first time passengers.

Peter Richards

Boulder, CO.
 
Peter,

If you send me an email to Alanb @ the board's address minus the "discuss" part, I can help you sort through the password issues.
 
In answer to question #1, major delays should end when the flood-damaged BNSF St. Joseph Sub reopens, currently projected to be mid-September.
 
Hi Peter,

I'm in Boulder myself this summer, and have used the CZ often for many years. I completely understand your frustration: the mess this summer is by far the worst I've ever seen. On the few days when things go well, the Omaha detour results in a delay of only about 3 hours for the #5. However, most days, things do not go well, and there are a couple of other 3-hour delays along the route, for reasons that I'm not entirely clear about (freight congestion, equipment failures, speed restrictions, delays in departure from point of origin due to insufficient time to clean/service/repair the train between runs have all been mentioned, though). I was hoping that the situation would improve as the summer progressed and the Omaha situation stabilized, but instead, things have gotten worse, to the point where it's normal for the #5 to roll into Denver 12 hours late and cross the Rockies after dark.

I sympathize with first-time travelers who get up early in the morning and arrive in time for the advertised 8:05 am departure, only to find their train is 12 hours late. Coupled with Denver's new (and hard to find) temporary Amtrak station, I can understand that it can very confusing and frustrating.

Does anyone here have any further insights as to what's going on with CZ?
 
While we're on this topic, here are some other frustrating things and evidence that Amtrak is handling this poorly:

1) There is no "service alert" on the Amtrak website about the Omaha detour. If you try to book Chicago to Denver, for example, there's no warning whatsoever that your train is *guaranteed* to be at least 3 hours late.

2) If you check train status through Amtrak, the Omaha detour is never factored into estimated arrival times. For example, if you check train status for tommorow's #5 into Denver right now, it cheerfully says: "Estimated Arrival Time: on time." The #5 hasn't arrived on time into Denver for well over 2 months now! I would wager any amount of money that it won't arrive on time tomorrow either.
 
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darien-l said:
While we're on this topic, here are some other frustrating things and evidence that Amtrak is handling this poorly:

1) There is no "service alert" on the Amtrak website about the Omaha detour. If you try to book Chicago to Denver, for example, there's no warning whatsoever that your train is *guaranteed* to be at least 3 hours late.

2) If you check train status through Amtrak, the Omaha detour is never factored into estimated arrival times. For example, if you check train status for tommorow's #5 into Denver right now, it cheerfully says: "Estimated Arrival Time: on time." The #5 hasn't arrived on time into Denver for well over 2 months now! I would wager any amount of money that it won't arrive on time tomorrow either.
Click to expand...
#1: There is such an alert actually, but it is unfortunately hard to find: http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Alert_C&pagename=am/AM_Alert_C/Alerts_Popup&p=1237608345018&cid=1248544305307

#2: The Omaha detour is actually a shortcut, so there is nothing about the detour per se that is making trains late. As evidence, check out this status file from June, just after the detour began but before the flooding really got bad: http://72.148.42.113:8080/scripts/archivefinder.pl?seltrain=5&selyear=2011&selmonth=06&selday=18

As I have mentioned in several threads, the extreme lateness is due to a lack a fluidity on the BNSF line across Iowa/eastern Nebraska caused by detouring freight trains (mostly coal). While Amtrak "knows" that the train will be delayed, they have no way of estimating exactly how much time a given train will lose so it's hard to factor it in. Things should get better around mid-September when the BNSF line from Lincoln to Kansas City reopens.

Mark
 
Hello, I am a guest and this is directed to Peter Richards, the Trails & Rails volunteer. Does the program extend thru Color Sunday? I am taking a "first timer" WB on the CZ Mon. 9/12 and EB on Fri. 9/16. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you, Michele Swanson

(returning home to GJ CO)
 
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michele swanson said:
Hello, I am a guest and this is directed to Peter Richards, the Trails & Rails volunteer. Does the program extend thru Color Sunday? I am taking a "first timer" WB on the CZ Mon. 9/12 and EB on Fri. 9/16. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you, Michele Swanson

(returning home to GJ CO)
Click to expand...

Michele...

The Denver - Grand Junction program ends on Labor Day weekend.

The last trips in each direction will be on the Sat - Sunday weekend, 3 - 4 Sept, if the train is not too late.

If the train is more than 6 hours late, in either direction, we do not go.

It is tough to point out scenery outside when it is dark...

Cheers, Peter Richards
 
Thank you Peter for your response. While I thought Labor Day might be the end of your program, I had hopes of it going thru Color Sunday.

After yesterday's delay - 8/25 and today's accident in NE - 8/26....I was also hoping for the "normal" 3-6 hour delays.

Thanks again. I appreciate your volunteer even if I can't experience it firsthand.

Michele Swanson
 
According to a post on trainorders.com Amtrak is calling people with reservations on the CZ#5 and #6 and telling them that Service is Disrupted until Sept. 10th due to the Derailment on this Line!!! :eek: This really makes no sense I think, what's Really going on with the Zephyrs???? :help:
 
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I looked at amtrak.com, and the first time you can book a ticket Chicago-Denver is September 10. It does look bad for the Zephyr.
 
jimhudson said:
According to a post on trainorders.com Amtrak is calling people with reservations on the CZ#5 and #6 and telling them that Service is Disrupted until Sept. 10th due to the Derailment on this Line!!! :eek: This really makes no sense I think, what's going really going on with the Zephyrs???? :help:
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it would sure be nice if amtrak would let its customers and subsidizers know what is going on. what is wrong with the managment of amtrak?
 
Temporary loss of at least three locos, permanent loss of several Superliner cars, residual delays from trackwork and repair from floods, constant need to bus passengers and crew, turning the train short of the terminus, horrible OTP that also delays connecting trains such as the CS, and the deaths of passengers and an employee in June.....it makes sense that Amtrak would suspend service until they can improve most of these factors.

Beech Grove does not have the work force and other resources to quickly restore all of the damaged equipment that has been piling up this year. They may not have full trainsets for the CZ at the moment. God knows they are running short of motive power as well.
 
Amtrak has lost immediate use of a lot of hardware here in 2011. In addition they may be suffering prolonged downtime of otherwise usable or reparable hardware while transit investigators and insurance adjusters inspect it. In addition to that they now have a huge mess in the North East to resolve. Frankly, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if they've simply reached their limit of how many emergencies they can address at once and how many routes they can supply with enough hardware to run a full schedule at this moment. It's not like they had a huge reserve before this latest string of accidents and incidents and it's only gotten worse week after week, month after month.
 
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I haven't got a call yet and we are scheduled on the CZ on the 4th west and the 8th back east. Would be nice to know whats up.
 
Amtrak Customer Relations says the Zephyr WILL run starting on Sept. 2, but they have blocked the inventory thru the 9th to try to accomodate those who were affected by the cancellations. I just got off the phone with them.
 
Also, the BNSF website indicates that the St. Joseph's subdivision will be back in service on Sept. 3. That should relieve most of the congestion that the Zephyr has been encountering in Iowa & Nebraska.
 
If Queen Elizabeth were reading this thread, she'd probably say that for the Zephyr this year has been an annus horribilis.
 
What ChrisJ said....I called also and was told our reservation was still on for the 4th, I ask about getting back on the 8th and the gal I talked with laughed and said with all the problems the CZ has had....don't push it.. :lol:
 
ChrisJ said:
Amtrak Customer Relations says the Zephyr WILL run starting on Sept. 2, but they have blocked the inventory thru the 9th to try to accomodate those who were affected by the cancellations. I just got off the phone with them.
Click to expand...
This makes sense. When I was on the #6 CZ last month right after a 2 day shutdown, our train was every chair and room full trying to clear the backlog. In fact a big rail tour company had to charter 2 privates in SLC to get 3 days of group travel back to Chicago.
 
A report on Train orders. net reports that

"Further update: Trains 5 and 6 are cancelled through September 2 origin dates; operate EMY-DEN only for origin dates

September 3-9 (train 6 departs Emeryville these dates; train 5 departs Denver one day later than these dates); at this

time through service is projected to resume with trains 5 and 6 origin dates September 10 and after. "
 
I just got my phone call. No #6 on Saturday. Agent confirms Joeker's post. Doesn't sound like there's any truth to ChrisJ info about accommodating bumped passengers first. It'd annoy me quite a bit if they did that. It's a craps game and if you roll bad, well that's it. At least you get full refund.

I think it's pretty obvious they lack equipment and probably people as well. Plus the Missouri R is still above flood stage in Omaha and won't drop below it for at least another week, judging by the gauge chart. Which means it's unlikely that the temporary levee built across the tracks will be removed anytime soon, which means they still have to bypass Omaha, which means continued bussing, which means continued unbudgeted expense. With the NE flooding added in, they just can't do it.

Too bad, I was really looking forward to the trip. Now I get to eat lunch in the Houston airport. Blah!
 
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