Maple Leaf border procedure

[railiner]

Years ago, I recall seeing a small office in Grand Central Terminal, New York, at the entrance to track 34 that said "U.S. Customs. Does anyone recall that, and what use it had?

 

[AlanB]

I can't say with any certainty, but years ago trains like the Adirondack would have run to GCT, since they could not get to Penn back then. So perhaps they kept a small office at GCT because of that.

 

[NS VIA Fan]

Years ago, I recall seeing a small office in Grand Central Terminal, New York, at the entrance to track 34 that said "U.S. Customs. Does anyone recall that, and what use it had?

When the trains handled checked baggage, customs and immigration interviewed you at the border but you had to go to this office to claim your checked baggage upon arrival. There were similar offices in Montreal Central and Winsor Stations so I imagine it was the same at GCT and Penn Station.

 

[railiner]

Years ago, I recall seeing a small office in Grand Central Terminal, New York, at the entrance to track 34 that said "U.S. Customs. Does anyone recall that, and what use it had?

When the trains handled checked baggage, customs and immigration interviewed you at the border but you had to go to this office to claim your checked baggage upon arrival. There were similar offices in Montreal Central and Winsor Stations so I imagine it was the same at GCT and Penn Station.

Okay, that makes sense.

I suppose you could have paid any excess duties right on the spot...

 

[railiner]

I can't say with any certainty, but years ago trains like the Adirondack would have run to GCT, since they could not get to Penn back then. So perhaps they kept a small office at GCT because of that.

This was back before Amtrak, in the New York Central days. The Laurentian, the Montreal Limited, as well as Toronto, and several trains that came from Detroit thru Canada used GCT.

 

[Eric S]

If, however, the St. Lambert stop were eliminated and space found at Montreal (in Central Station or if service were switched to the Windsor Station replacement), perhaps the Adirondack could operate across the border like the Cascades.

BTW, there is no Windsor Station anymore. What remains is a block or two to the west and is called Lucien L'Allier.

Thanks. I couldn't remember what its replacement was called. Also, I'm not so good with the French anyway.

 

[GPSTraveler]

Hello all,

I just got off the Maple Leaf last month. I took the LSL from Cleveland to Rochester, then switched to the Maple Leaf onto Niagara Falls, Ontario.

The Maple Leaf was over 2 hours late on the way north to Toronto. I beleive that Customs will not wait more than 2 hours to board the train. Therefore, instead of customs boarding the train, the train stopped at the Niagara Falls Ontario station and stopped. We still had the normal 1 hour stop AFTER Niagara Falls, NY. After waiting 1 hour on the New York side, and then an additional half hour on the Ontario side. I thought we had been forgotten so I poked my head out of the door and saw a Canadian customs agent, who told me they were taking us off the train (because we were 2 hours late). A couple of agents came aboard and directed everyone to exit the train near the front, luggage and all. We then entered the customs facility on the side of the niagara falls, ON station. Everyone waited in a line (with all their luggage in tow), got passports stamped and then Niagara passengers were escorted to the exit of the staiton, onward Toronto passengers were shown right back on the train, luggage and all.

On the return trip, the Maple Leaf was right on time. Therefore, we backed into the Niagara Falls New York station and waited on the tracks for about 45 minutes. The agents were crowded at a couple of tables in the rear lounge/ business class car, while the passengers remained seated (in silence - a very silent time, only lights remain on). Then 3 agents entered our car from the front and not the back, most agents were behind in the cafe car.

Everyone was quickly and politely questioned and had passports stamped. MUCH quicker than in an airport by the way. My mother in law was absolutely delighted with the Amtrak/Via rail procedure VS an international airport. She understood that 90% of the time, when train is UNDER 2 hours late, we would have had the same quick procedure coming North, meaning..... Train backs into NF Ontario, then 45min later, agents come aboard and ask questions, stamp passports. Keep in mind, even though the wait is 1 hour, you are not standing in a line at the airport.

Only 1 couple were escorted off the train with luggage. If the agents are happy with your answers (95% of time) you will not have to show any luggage at all.

I hope this information is helpful. I had to assume the agents only take you off the train if it is 2 hours late, because I asked 2 different customs agents to make sure, this was NOT a normal procedure. It all has to do with how long they are willing to wait to board the train, thats it.

 

[jis]

Hello all,

I just got off the Maple Leaf last month. I took the LSL from Cleveland to Rochester, then switched to the Maple Leaf onto Niagara Falls, Ontario.

The Maple Leaf was over 2 hours late on the way north to Toronto. I beleive that Customs will not wait more than 2 hours to board the train. Therefore, instead of customs boarding the train, the train stopped at the Niagara Falls Ontario station and stopped. We still had the normal 1 hour stop AFTER Niagara Falls, NY. After waiting 1 hour on the New York side, and then an additional half hour on the Ontario side. I thought we had been forgotten so I poked my head out of the door and saw a Canadian customs agent, who told me they were taking us off the train (because we were 2 hours late). A couple of agents came aboard and directed everyone to exit the train near the front, luggage and all. We then entered the customs facility on the side of the niagara falls, ON station. Everyone waited in a line (with all their luggage in tow), got passports stamped and then Niagara passengers were escorted to the exit of the staiton, onward Toronto passengers were shown right back on the train, luggage and all.

On the return trip, the Maple Leaf was right on time. Therefore, we backed into the Niagara Falls New York station and waited on the tracks for about 45 minutes. The agents were crowded at a couple of tables in the rear lounge/ business class car, while the passengers remained seated (in silence - a very silent time, only lights remain on). Then 3 agents entered our car from the front and not the back, most agents were behind in the cafe car.

Everyone was quickly and politely questioned and had passports stamped. MUCH quicker than in an airport by the way. My mother in law was absolutely delighted with the Amtrak/Via rail procedure VS an international airport. She understood that 90% of the time, when train is UNDER 2 hours late, we would have had the same quick procedure coming North, meaning..... Train backs into NF Ontario, then 45min later, agents come aboard and ask questions, stamp passports. Keep in mind, even though the wait is 1 hour, you are not standing in a line at the airport.

Only 1 couple were escorted off the train with luggage. If the agents are happy with your answers (95% of time) you will not have to show any luggage at all.

I hope this information is helpful. I had to assume the agents only take you off the train if it is 2 hours late, because I asked 2 different customs agents to make sure, this was NOT a normal procedure. It all has to do with how long they are willing to wait to board the train, thats it.

You do realize of course that you are talking about two completely different jurisdictions with completely different set of rules. Just because Canadians (CBC)think they should pull everyone off the train under certain circumstances does not mean that US CBP will follow the same rules. While entering Canada going North you primarily dealt with Canadian CBC in Niagara Falls ON, and while entering US going South you dealt with US CBP in Niagara Falls NY. Also BTW there is no backing up at Niagara Falls ON. There is only one usable track at the station I believe. At Niagara Falls NY they built this special customs station with a platform that the train needs to back into. Again different jurisdictions and different procedures.

Also, at least for those that are on the US GOES trusted traveler program, nothing on the land borders could be easier than at the airports equipped with GOES machines where you don't need to talk to a human agent at all. Just authenticate yourself with Passport and finger print and make a digital customs declaration and off you go.

 

[OBS]

Does anyone know the current procedure with Canadian customs at NFL? Are passengers required to detrain with their luggage?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Does anyone know the current procedure with Canadian customs at NFL? Are passengers required to detrain with their luggage?

Yep, you'll take it into the VIA Station for processing while the Amtrak Crew is replaced with a VIA Crew for the run to Toronto.

Upon return, the Crew Change is reversed @ the VIA Station, the train crosses the Border to the Amtrak Station on the US Side, and you take your luggage info the Station for processing by American HLS.

 

[jis]

American HLS? What be they? CBP perhaps?

 

[neroden]

Also, at least for those that are on the US GOES trusted traveler program, nothing on the land borders could be easier than at the airports equipped with GOES machines where you don't need to talk to a human agent at all. Just authenticate yourself with Passport and finger print and make a digital customs declaration and off you go.

Wow, so we have no serious border controls at all. "Foreign terrorists welcome!"

It's really straightforward to forge everything electronic in a passport *and* to forge fingerprints for fingerprint readers. I've read about this and seen documentaries.

Why are we wasting money on all this "security" stuff which doesn't even work? So the contractors can feed at the trough, I suppose? Oink oink! Taxpayer dollars are tasty, especially when nothing useful is done with them!

 

[OBS]

Thanks for the update!

 

[jis]

Also, at least for those that are on the US GOES trusted traveler program, nothing on the land borders could be easier than at the airports equipped with GOES machines where you don't need to talk to a human agent at all. Just authenticate yourself with Passport and finger print and make a digital customs declaration and off you go.

Wow, so we have no serious border controls at all. "Foreign terrorists welcome!"

It's really straightforward to forge everything electronic in a passport *and* to forge fingerprints for fingerprint readers. I've read about this and seen documentaries.

Why are we wasting money on all this "security" stuff which doesn't even work? So the contractors can feed at the trough, I suppose? Oink oink! Taxpayer dollars are tasty, especially when nothing useful is done with them!

You should join DHS and help them understand such simple matters. maybe they'll fix it

 

[priller]

Also, at least for those that are on the US GOES trusted traveler program, nothing on the land borders could be easier than at the airports equipped with GOES machines where you don't need to talk to a human agent at all. Just authenticate yourself with Passport and finger print and make a digital customs declaration and off you go.

Also add the facial recognition technology, at the kiosk, to the fingerprints and passport scan. Of course there is the background check and in-person interview with CBP, before you are accepted into the program.

Which actually makes it better security than "Joe Traveller" walking up to CBP agent at the desk.

 

[neroden]

Also, at least for those that are on the US GOES trusted traveler program, nothing on the land borders could be easier than at the airports equipped with GOES machines where you don't need to talk to a human agent at all. Just authenticate yourself with Passport and finger print and make a digital customs declaration and off you go.

Also add the facial recognition technology, at the kiosk, to the fingerprints and passport scan.

You should know that this tech can actually be fooled by *photographs*. You need a human babysitting the machine in order to have any real security, and the human has to have enough to do that they don't start covertly reading a novel. The impression JIS gave is that they don't have one.

 

[neroden]

You should join DHS and help them understand such simple matters. maybe they'll fix it

I see no evidence that DHS has ever been *intended* to provide any actual security. All the people who actually knew something about security and tried to do something about it found themselves pressured to resign. I think DHS knows exactly what they're doing: collecting money and trying to look impressive/intimidating. It's an old game.

 

[Everydaymatters]

In reading the above about the Maple Leaf Niagara Falls border crossing, it seems they change their procedure occasionally. When I crossed last Friday the train backed into the station, the rear door was opened, US Border agents boarded and went to the front of the train. Everyone got off the train, starting with the passengers in the front. We did not take our luggage.

At the platform the agent asked us how many were in our party and he wrote that number on our Declaration sheet. We then went into the building and gave our sheet to one of the 3 agents. After answering questions, that agent stamped our Declaration sheet, which we gave to the agent on the platform as we again boarded the train.

One man was escorted off the train with his luggage.