Megabus returns to CA! Will Amtrak California suffer?

[roomette]

WOW .. That IS creepy!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Had my first Megabus sighting today. I had to do a double-take as I drove into Old Town Sacramento to take care of a bit of business at the railroad museum, there behind the museum next to the employee parking lot was a double-decker Megabus. It was backed in against the fence, and was loading up passengers!

DId I miss something about where Megabus is supposed to be having their Sacramento stop located? It just seemed kind of sleezy to be doing it beneath the I-5, on the backside of the railroad museum and beside UP's tracks, and in the shadow of Amtrak's depot.

Also, am I the only one seriously creeped out by Megabus' sunburnt obese driver logo? :wacko:

Megabus just wants to save costs. They are like the super-cheap lowest-quality mode of transport that transport anybody who wants to save money and get somewhere fast. Lack of stops actually just saves more money and Wi-Fi dosen't add much costs even though it's not that useful in a cramped TD925.

 

[roadman3313]

In this day and age it's about saving money. That location in Sacramento is where charter buses usually layover after they drop off passengers in Old Sac or the downtown area. When I used to drive charters in my free time we always stopped there. Also drove a charter in an Alexander Dennis Double Deck and parked it there so I know the buses fit. Megabus probably figured it was easy for them stop there and get back on the freeway. Not pretty though. But has transit options available. In San Francisco the stop is at the Caltrain Station. Oakland is at West Oakland BART. And San Jose is at SJC Caltrain/Amtrak. If there was public street space by the Amtrak in SAC to stop they probably would instead of behind it under the freeway.

And to Swadian Hardcore... if only you knew how many bus companies don't majorly factor in passenger comfort. Though I will admit I was a bit more concerned with how comfortable driving them was myself until I became a passenger... ^_^

 

[Texan Eagle]

Two of the four daily SF-Sacramento Megabus services are actually just brief stops on their SF-Sparks (Reno) service. For those buses, it makes good sense to just get off the freeway, drop off and pick up passengers, and get going towards final destination. Saves time. Megabus does this at many places for midway stops and a certain Greyhound lover here might disagree but I have personally seen passengers don't really mind this. When I was at Virginia Tech, the Washington-Knoxville Megabus used to make a stop at Christiansburg, VA for Tech students and the "stop" was merely a Park-n-Ride lot just off I-81. No shelter, no attendants. Did people use the bus? Hell, yeah. So much that Blacksburg Transit eventually decided to extend one of their bus routes to the Park-n-Ride lot to take passengers from the highway to the campus.

 

[user 3575]

Megabus's "station stop" in San Jose is a curb, in a traffic lane, next to the (very few) free 30-minute parking spaces in front of the Diridon Transit Center -- cars and VTA buses are forced to go around the Megabuses in the opposite lane of traffic. Their customers use the Caltrain lots but don't pay ("Oh, it's $4? Well, we'll only be here a few minutes..."), "borrow" space in the disabled parking spaces, or try to get passes for the Amtrak lot ("Hi, I need an overnight parking pass, change for a $20 and a bag checked. I'm going to LA. On Megabus.")* Their passengers have free use of the restrooms, benches and amenities at the station (it's a public facility, after all) and because there's no Megabus physical presence at Diridon, ask a lot of questions of the Amtrak staff and Station Hosts. Megabus, of course, pays nothing to pull to the curb, block traffic and load/unload their behemoth coaches. And they're not alone: the LA-SF Shuttle does the same thing at almost the same times of day, making for interesting congestion issues inside and outside -- and all without any sort of official approval that I know of (anyone actually *know* if they're OK to do these drive-bys?) and without contributing to the upkeep and operations of the station, as Amtrak, VTA, MST and Amtrak Thruway do. I guess that's the free market at work, though...

*These are observed behaviors and conversations, not speculation.

 

[roadman3313]

That's how they help to keep prices low among other things. The stops are published so unless anyone else says anything or anyone at the property takes any action it is probably fair game. "Free"rent probably still outweighs any tickets they would receive and most companies place the responsibility of paying a ticket on the driver as well, not the company. On board 11(28) at OKJ now. Just passed by CC 724. They just announced the train will be over filled. Not showing sold out but they are assigning people to sit in the lounge as they are out of seats. At SJC they expect a larger group as well. Waiting for a private car to be attached.

So the train is certainly full. The Amtrak California buses are sold out as well both north and south today across multiple trips. Megabus has many sell outs as well. I think Megabus just allows for more options. If anything it just allows another option instead of flying. Because ground transport is selling out this holiday season!

 

[MikefromCrete]

MegaBus was using Union Station in Chicago as its "terminal" with its passengers taking up space in the station entryway, using washroom facilities and generally mucking up the loading of taxi cabs, transit buses and legitimate Amtrak connecting buses. The city eventually "exiled" MegaBus to a location two block south where its passengers wait in the open air. Hey, if you want to travel cheap, then put up with the inconveniences. I'd like to know how Boston and Washington, DC, pushed MegaBus into proper bus terminals.

 

[SubwayNut]

I know in Boston the city past an ordanance forbading intercity buses from the streets. MegaBus, BlotBus and the two Chinatown bus lines all stop in bays right next to each other in the really nice MBTA run bus station at South Station.

In New York they keep being pushed around. They used to use a vacant lot on 9th Avenue, a block from penn Station. Then they were outside the PBTA until the paying tenants forced them out. Now they've been relighted 4 long blocks from Penn Station at 12th Avenue near nothing. NYC is trying to regulate.

 

[Nathanael]

Boston, NY, and Chicago all have regulations (city ordinances, laws) regarding where scheduled buses can stop, and they've been able to enforce them. I suppose San Jose has never tried.

Megabus is basically a rogue operator -- it'll get away with whatever it can until it gets caught. Personally, that makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable, but what actually keeps me away from Megabus is this:

http://www.wktv.com/news/local/Four-killed-in-Megabus-crash-near-Syracuse-102689059.html

 

[calwatch]

In the State of California, I believe that CPUC state laws can preempt local regulations. For instance, charter bus operators don't have to obtain business licenses in every town that they stop in. This same issue pops up in the Bay Area a lot because private employer buspools stop at existing SFMTA bus stops in San Francisco, or casino buses blocking streets elsewhere. There really isn't much difference.

In Los Angeles, the LACMTA has welcomed Megabus with open arms, including promoting their service through press conferences and articles on the corporate blog. They own Union Station and so can do that, although security still shoos people without train tickets away from the throne seating on the west side of the station. If San Jose enforced bus parking restrictions there they could just as easily pull a block away with no real impact to ridership. The DC Megabus stop is not very near mass transit, for instance.

 

[roadman3313]

As unfortunate as it is, accidents will occur. This happens on a lot of casino buses and even Greyhound. Lack or training, fatigue, and poor maintenance are often contributing factors. Even public transit has its fair share of accidents as do trains. It all comes down to money for a lot of the operators. Take the gamble until it catches up to them. But in the mean time prices are cheap and business is good.

 

[Nathanael]

"Lack of training" is definitely at fault when slamming headlong into a bridge.

"In the State of California, I believe that CPUC state laws can preempt local regulations. For instance, charter bus operators don't have to obtain business licenses in every town that they stop in. This same issue pops up in the Bay Area a lot because private employer buspools stop at existing SFMTA bus stops in San Francisco, or casino buses blocking streets elsewhere. There really isn't much difference."

Aha. Thanks for the information, Calwatch. So it would be a state government issue in California, I guess.

 

[roadman3313]

That is interesting. I know at OKJ there sometimes are a lot of Amtrak California Thruway buses around the holiday as they run extra service. They sometimes use the public transit stop across the street from the station. Being A frequent user of the service I don't mind working with the Amtrak and Silverado Stages (the contract operator) on staging the buses in the stop.

On the other hand if you just park the bus in the middle and leave I issue a citation to the bus. Yes it is a Bus stop but it is for public transit as marked, not all buses. They are issued the same ticket as a private vehicle would receive. This happened when a Santa Barbara Air bus tried to sit there overnight.

California can be a bit loopy with the laws but agencies do have a little leverage, albeit not a whole lot about public transit stop usage.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

And to Swadian Hardcore... if only you knew how many bus companies don't majorly factor in passenger comfort. Though I will admit I was a bit more concerned with how comfortable driving them was myself until I became a passenger... ^_^

But the main bus uses by Megabus, the Van Hool TD925, is less comfortable then even the average intercity bus and feels more like a suburban bus or glorified transit bus.

Boston, NY, and Chicago all have regulations (city ordinances, laws) regarding where scheduled buses can stop, and they've been able to enforce them. I suppose San Jose has never tried.

Megabus is basically a rogue operator -- it'll get away with whatever it can until it gets caught. Personally, that makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable, but what actually keeps me away from Megabus is this:

http://www.wktv.com/...-102689059.html

Another disadvantage of the TD925 is the height which was the cause of this accident. Van Hool buses are known for weak roofs and take more damage in accidents then MCI buses. Greyhound also has better drivers and has far less recent accidents.

 

[roadman3313]

Where I work the majority of transit buses are Van Hools! Trust me... I understand! Our MCI's used for our commuter runs are much nicer to drive and ride. Those could compete with rail travel at the right price and be comfortable

 

[Guest]

And to Swadian Hardcore... if only you knew how many bus companies don't majorly factor in passenger comfort. Though I will admit I was a bit more concerned with how comfortable driving them was myself until I became a passenger... ^_^

But the main bus uses by Megabus, the Van Hool TD925, is less comfortable then even the average intercity bus and feels more like a suburban bus or glorified transit bus.

Boston, NY, and Chicago all have regulations (city ordinances, laws) regarding where scheduled buses can stop, and they've been able to enforce them. I suppose San Jose has never tried.

Megabus is basically a rogue operator -- it'll get away with whatever it can until it gets caught. Personally, that makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable, but what actually keeps me away from Megabus is this:

http://www.wktv.com/...-102689059.html

Another disadvantage of the TD925 is the height which was the cause of this accident. Van Hool buses are known for weak roofs and take more damage in accidents then MCI buses. Greyhound also has better drivers and has far less recent accidents.

They're actually not that much higher, 13'2" for a TD925 vs 11'6" for a C2045.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

And to Swadian Hardcore... if only you knew how many bus companies don't majorly factor in passenger comfort. Though I will admit I was a bit more concerned with how comfortable driving them was myself until I became a passenger... ^_^

But the main bus uses by Megabus, the Van Hool TD925, is less comfortable then even the average intercity bus and feels more like a suburban bus or glorified transit bus.

Boston, NY, and Chicago all have regulations (city ordinances, laws) regarding where scheduled buses can stop, and they've been able to enforce them. I suppose San Jose has never tried.

Megabus is basically a rogue operator -- it'll get away with whatever it can until it gets caught. Personally, that makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable, but what actually keeps me away from Megabus is this:

http://www.wktv.com/...-102689059.html

Another disadvantage of the TD925 is the height which was the cause of this accident. Van Hool buses are known for weak roofs and take more damage in accidents then MCI buses. Greyhound also has better drivers and has far less recent accidents.

They're actually not that much higher, 13'2" for a TD925 vs 11'6" for a C2045.

Well, they were tall enough to get smashed by the bridge, which is a train bridge BTW, and a C2045 probably has a weak roof, too.

 

[BCL]

Where I work the majority of transit buses are Van Hools! Trust me... I understand! Our MCI's used for our commuter runs are much nicer to drive and ride. Those could compete with rail travel at the right price and be comfortable

I don't expect you're going to respond, but I remember reading about a certain transit agency's junkets to Belgium before a decision to purchase Van Hools was made. That happened when Gillig was headquartered and manufacturered in the transit district's service area.

 

[BCL]

And to Swadian Hardcore... if only you knew how many bus companies don't majorly factor in passenger comfort. Though I will admit I was a bit more concerned with how comfortable driving them was myself until I became a passenger... ^_^

But the main bus uses by Megabus, the Van Hool TD925, is less comfortable then even the average intercity bus and feels more like a suburban bus or glorified transit bus.

Boston, NY, and Chicago all have regulations (city ordinances, laws) regarding where scheduled buses can stop, and they've been able to enforce them. I suppose San Jose has never tried.Megabus is basically a rogue operator -- it'll get away with whatever it can until it gets caught. Personally, that makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable, but what actually keeps me away from Megabus is this:http://www.wktv.com/...-102689059.html

Another disadvantage of the TD925 is the height which was the cause of this accident. Van Hool buses are known for weak roofs and take more damage in accidents then MCI buses. Greyhound also has better drivers and has far less recent accidents.

They're actually not that much higher, 13'2" for a TD925 vs 11'6" for a C2045.

I finally took Megabus. $5 plus 50 cents from San Francisco to Sacramento. Pick up was right across from the 4th and King Caltrain station. Drop off is now in front of the train depot in Old Sacramento operated by the California State Railroad Museum. Seats were a little bit tight but not really uncomfortable. WiFi signal was strong but the speed wasn't great. The power outlets were fine. I did notice that we had maybe a foot of clearance under several overpasses on I-80.

I did have a few issues. I reserved for a Sunday and BART doesn't run early enough for the early morning bus and my goal was to return to Emeryville on Capitol Corridor. Instead I took AC Transit and walked along the waterfront.

I don't know what's the legality of their use of the area across from Caltrain. I did see someone dropping off a Megabus passenger at the curb and the Megabus attendant started yelling at them when that car blocked a bus. At Sacramento the bus made it all the way in. There's Sacramento Police and California State Parks rangers there and nobody told them they couldn't be there.

Honestly I'd probably take them again in the right circumstances.

 

[roadman3313]

Where I work the majority of transit buses are Van Hools! Trust me... I understand! Our MCI's used for our commuter runs are much nicer to drive and ride. Those could compete with rail travel at the right price and be comfortable

I don't expect you're going to respond, but I remember reading about a certain transit agency's junkets to Belgium before a decision to purchase Van Hools was made. That happened when Gillig was headquartered and manufacturered in the transit district's service area.

If you happen to recall that agency take a moment to look at their webpage and the hype put into Gillig with new buses coming in. LIke you, people do not easily forget what happened and the negative P/R it created...

 

[roadman3313]

And to Swadian Hardcore... if only you knew how many bus companies don't majorly factor in passenger comfort. Though I will admit I was a bit more concerned with how comfortable driving them was myself until I became a passenger... ^_^

But the main bus uses by Megabus, the Van Hool TD925, is less comfortable then even the average intercity bus and feels more like a suburban bus or glorified transit bus.

Boston, NY, and Chicago all have regulations (city ordinances, laws) regarding where scheduled buses can stop, and they've been able to enforce them. I suppose San Jose has never tried.Megabus is basically a rogue operator -- it'll get away with whatever it can until it gets caught. Personally, that makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable, but what actually keeps me away from Megabus is this:http://www.wktv.com/...-102689059.html

Another disadvantage of the TD925 is the height which was the cause of this accident. Van Hool buses are known for weak roofs and take more damage in accidents then MCI buses. Greyhound also has better drivers and has far less recent accidents.

They're actually not that much higher, 13'2" for a TD925 vs 11'6" for a C2045.

I finally took Megabus. $5 plus 50 cents from San Francisco to Sacramento. Pick up was right across from the 4th and King Caltrain station. Drop off is now in front of the train depot in Old Sacramento operated by the California State Railroad Museum. Seats were a little bit tight but not really uncomfortable. WiFi signal was strong but the speed wasn't great. The power outlets were fine. I did notice that we had maybe a foot of clearance under several overpasses on I-80.

I did have a few issues. I reserved for a Sunday and BART doesn't run early enough for the early morning bus and my goal was to return to Emeryville on Capitol Corridor. Instead I took AC Transit and walked along the waterfront.

I don't know what's the legality of their use of the area across from Caltrain. I did see someone dropping off a Megabus passenger at the curb and the Megabus attendant started yelling at them when that car blocked a bus. At Sacramento the bus made it all the way in. There's Sacramento Police and California State Parks rangers there and nobody told them they couldn't be there.

Honestly I'd probably take them again in the right circumstances.

I have through about using them but the times haven't lined up and I work about 2-3 minutes drive away from the Emeryville station. The price generally is much lower than the Capitol Corridor, but the Capitol Corridor allows for more flexability as well if I have to go in earlier/later than originally planned (the unpredictability of working in the transit industry...) I have seen the Megabuses though on the highway and they are often quite full, especially around the weekend. I thought about LA as well but my destination is around Oxnard so I would still have to take the Surfliner back north so the Amtrak Train/Bus is more practical timing wise.

One of these days I think I'll take it just for the heck of it to see what it is about. But as for now I'll stick to the Capitol Corridor for my regular commuting purposes

 

[BCL]

I finally took Megabus. $5 plus 50 cents from San Francisco to Sacramento. Pick up was right across from the 4th and King Caltrain station. Drop off is now in front of the train depot in Old Sacramento operated by the California State Railroad Museum. Seats were a little bit tight but not really uncomfortable. WiFi signal was strong but the speed wasn't great. The power outlets were fine. I did notice that we had maybe a foot of clearance under several overpasses on I-80.

I did have a few issues. I reserved for a Sunday and BART doesn't run early enough for the early morning bus and my goal was to return to Emeryville on Capitol Corridor. Instead I took AC Transit and walked along the waterfront.

I don't know what's the legality of their use of the area across from Caltrain. I did see someone dropping off a Megabus passenger at the curb and the Megabus attendant started yelling at them when that car blocked a bus. At Sacramento the bus made it all the way in. There's Sacramento Police and California State Parks rangers there and nobody told them they couldn't be there.

Honestly I'd probably take them again in the right circumstances.

I have through about using them but the times haven't lined up and I work about 2-3 minutes drive away from the Emeryville station. The price generally is much lower than the Capitol Corridor, but the Capitol Corridor allows for more flexability as well if I have to go in earlier/later than originally planned (the unpredictability of working in the transit industry...) I have seen the Megabuses though on the highway and they are often quite full, especially around the weekend. I thought about LA as well but my destination is around Oxnard so I would still have to take the Surfliner back north so the Amtrak Train/Bus is more practical timing wise.

One of these days I think I'll take it just for the heck of it to see what it is about. But as for now I'll stick to the Capitol Corridor for my regular commuting purposes

I don't think Megabus is terribly good for a commute, but I guess some people are doing that on the East Coast. I was thinking about using them for our vacation last week on the East Coast, where we mostly found $17 fares between NYC and Philadephia. It didn't work out though. They run a lot of buses on the main East Coast runs. Maybe 20 a day for the route we were taking.

However, using their service comes with a lot of caveats. You have to show up. Once the fares are purchased, there are no refunds or exchanges. No standby, no change fees like with airlines. If I managed to get the $1 fares I wouldn't worry about losing the money. However, if you miss a bus you'll have to purchase a new fare and possibly at a higher price. They also only sell online, but that may not be as big a deal if you've got a smart phone.

On the way back I had flexibility taking Capitol Corridor. I made a last minute decision to take in a baseball game in Sacramento and took the later train. I had dinner in Davis and figured that I could take an earlier train to get home than I reserved. None of the conductors were surprised by my choosing a different time, although one of the conductors looked at my reservation and thought it was convoluted. I booked SAC-DAV-EMY-FMT-GAC over two days. I figured I could get more AGR points (especially with a two trip limit for Double Days per day), use the second half for my normal commute, and the marginal cost was $6 more than if I just booked SAC-EMY. My only regret is that if I had booked a day earlier I could have gotten the AAA discount.

I saw a ton of people lined up for the 8:15 AM bus from San Francisco to Los Angeles. I tried pricing that, and it looks like once the low priced fares are gone it can go up to about $27. I think the max price for San Francisco to Sacramento is probably less than that. The only thing I'd wish is that maybe they started operating out of Oakland.

 

[BCL]

That is interesting. I know at OKJ there sometimes are a lot of Amtrak California Thruway buses around the holiday as they run extra service. They sometimes use the public transit stop across the street from the station. Being A frequent user of the service I don't mind working with the Amtrak and Silverado Stages (the contract operator) on staging the buses in the stop.
On the other hand if you just park the bus in the middle and leave I issue a citation to the bus. Yes it is a Bus stop but it is for public transit as marked, not all buses. They are issued the same ticket as a private vehicle would receive. This happened when a Santa Barbara Air bus tried to sit there overnight.

California can be a bit loopy with the laws but agencies do have a little leverage, albeit not a whole lot about public transit stop usage.

I looked up articles on Megabus. They seem to get quite a few complaints from passengers that their stops are inconvenient and from neighbors since people waiting for a bus often stop by without buying anything. Many of the complaints are from local businesses where passengers might use the bathroom but won't otherwise buy anything. At 4th and King across from Caltrain, I'm guessing that a lot of passengers will use the bathrooms at the station. I was also going to add to my Clipper Card, but the Caltrain add value machines can only add only in $20 increments.

Other complaints are that they often use outlaw stops where they may not have a specific permit. They have arranged to use private parking lots, but then passengers complain that they might only have a portable toilet and no shelter (especially in Minneapolis) if it's cold or there's bad weather. One of the complaints when they do use parking lots is that typically they have to back up, and the automatic backup siren wakes people up when they operate in early morning or late evening hours. Sounds a lot like the garbage trucks in my neighborhood. They seem to have a lot of issues with having to move around their stops.

I've read that the stop they use in Old Sacramento is legally for coach buses. Supposedly our buses and charters drop and pick off people there, so they probably have a legal right to use that area as long as they have a valid motor carrier permit.