MPI MP36 and Amtrak

[AlanB]

It's painfully obvious to me they're talking about electrics. The speeds they're talking about, and the quantity point right to electrics. Amtrak doesn't need new diesels right now, not as long as there are P-40s sitting serviceable in Delaware.

While I would agree that the quantity would seem to make it obvious that they are talking about the electrics, this next quote takes things right back out of the obvious category.

But GE says it is also ready to build locomotives that run at 124 mph that would replace older, slower locomotives and help Amtrak take a step toward a high-speed system.

First problem in that statement is that 124 MPH would not be replacing any older, slower electric locos. All of Amtrak's current electric fleet is capable of 125 MPH.

Second, this would in no way help Amtrak take a step toward a high-speed system. The NEC is already a high-speed system.

So I have to conclude, at least based upon what was reported and that could be wrong, that they are talking diesels based upon that.

 

[AlanB]

It's painfully obvious to me they're talking about electrics. The speeds they're talking about, and the quantity point right to electrics. Amtrak doesn't need new diesels right now, not as long as there are P-40s sitting serviceable in Delaware.

P40s are in BG for rebuild AO now.

Only 15 are in BG, several more still sit in Bear and not in servicable condition. In fact, Ivy City had to do some work on the 15 engines that went to BG before they could even be tacked onto the Cardinal for transport to BG.

 

[Ryan]

Only 10 are in BG, the last 5 are still hanging around in Ivy City, and the first 5 went as a special move, not tacked on to the Cardinal.

(sorry, it isn't often that anyone gets to correct the master! )

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Only 15 are in BG, several more still sit in Bear and not in servicable condition. In fact, Ivy City had to do some work on the 15 engines that went to BG before they could even be tacked onto the Cardinal for transport to BG.

Only work that needed done was to have air brake valves COTSed and same with running gear.

You need to get locomotive within federal standards or it can't be moved, it has nothing to do with condition of locomotive.

If you store a brand new locomotive for 3 years or more it can not be moved unless air valves are all rebuilt.

 

[Ryan]

Only 15 are in BG, several more still sit in Bear and not in servicable condition. In fact, Ivy City had to do some work on the 15 engines that went to BG before they could even be tacked onto the Cardinal for transport to BG.

Only work that needed done was to have air brake valves COTSed and same with running gear.

You need to get locomotive within federal standards or it can't be moved, it has nothing to do with condition of locomotive.

If you store a brand new locomotive for 3 years or more it can not be moved unless air valves are all rebuilt.

Incorrect, if that were the case how were they moved from Bear down to Ivy City without getting that done?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Only 15 are in BG, several more still sit in Bear and not in servicable condition. In fact, Ivy City had to do some work on the 15 engines that went to BG before they could even be tacked onto the Cardinal for transport to BG.

Only work that needed done was to have air brake valves COTSed and same with running gear.

You need to get locomotive within federal standards or it can't be moved, it has nothing to do with condition of locomotive.

If you store a brand new locomotive for 3 years or more it can not be moved unless air valves are all rebuilt.

Incorrect, if that were the case how were they moved from Bear down to Ivy City without getting that done?

FRA rules allow Hospital moves to nearest certified repair facility at restricted or other safe speed as per operating rules.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2008/octqtr/49cfr229.9.htm

 

[battalion51]

Wouldn't Wilmington be the closest certified repair facility, since that's where they're being stored?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Incorrect, if that were the case how were they moved from Bear down to Ivy City without getting that done?

Dutch does this for a living. I would no sooner argue with Dutch about rail equipment regulations then with George Harris about track rules and conditions.

 

[Ryan]

Incorrect, if that were the case how were they moved from Bear down to Ivy City without getting that done?

Dutch does this for a living. I would no sooner argue with Dutch about rail equipment regulations then with George Harris about track rules and conditions.

That doesn't make him infallible, despite what he may think.

 

[jis]

Only 15 are in BG, several more still sit in Bear and not in servicable condition. In fact, Ivy City had to do some work on the 15 engines that went to BG before they could even be tacked onto the Cardinal for transport to BG.

Only work that needed done was to have air brake valves COTSed and same with running gear.

You need to get locomotive within federal standards or it can't be moved, it has nothing to do with condition of locomotive.

If you store a brand new locomotive for 3 years or more it can not be moved unless air valves are all rebuilt.

Incorrect, if that were the case how were they moved from Bear down to Ivy City without getting that done?

Which part are we disputing here? Are we saying that no brake valve and COTS work needs to be done before moving?

AFAIR, there was some discussion in one of the boards about some additional work that needed to be done at Ivy City before CSX would allow those puppies on their territory. Is that inaccurate? I guess I am confused about what is being disputed here.

Is it within the realm of possibilities that the COTS, brake valve and running gear work was done before moving to Ivy City and then some additional work had to be done at Ivy City to make them acceptable for move over CSX?

 

[amtrakwolverine]

im thinking that were disputing the fact that the FRA requires the valves to be rebuilt before being moved cause if that was the case then how did amtrak get away with moving the locos down to the first repair shop without rebuilding the valves.

 

[Ryan]

Is it within the realm of possibilities that the COTS, brake valve and running gear work was done before moving to Ivy City and then some additional work had to be done at Ivy City to make them acceptable for move over CSX?

That's exactly what I was thinking, sorry I wasn't more clear.

 

[AlanB]

Is it within the realm of possibilities that the COTS, brake valve and running gear work was done before moving to Ivy City and then some additional work had to be done at Ivy City to make them acceptable for move over CSX?

That's exactly what I was thinking, sorry I wasn't more clear.

According to an informed post in this topic, post #186 to be precise, it would appear that the COTS work and other items were done before the P40's were moved to Ivy City. And while I was wrong in saying work needed to be done, it appears that Ivy City didn't trust the trucks on the engines and wanted a thorough inspection of them before allowing the Cardinal to transport them, which is what delayed their departure.

 

[jis]

OK, my vague recollection is that Amtrak did the necessary work to meet FRA requirements before moving them to Ivy City. Then at Ivy City the inspector found certain additional issues that needed addressing before they could move them over CSX to Beech Grove. Hence the holdup at Ivy City.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

OK, my vague recollection is that Amtrak did the necessary work to meet FRA requirements before moving them to Ivy City. Then at Ivy City the inspector found certain additional issues that needed addressing before they could move them over CSX to Beech Grove. Hence the holdup at Ivy City.

BEAR is not a certified Amtrak locomotive air shop, under FRA rules as long as brakes do work a locomotive can be moved at reasonable speed to nearest locomotive shop, in this case Wilmington.

At Wilmington the locomotives were prepared for service, including tractuonmotor lubrication, brakes etc etc.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Wouldn't Wilmington be the closest certified repair facility, since that's where they're being stored?

The P40's were stored at Bear, not at Wilmington.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Incorrect, if that were the case how were they moved from Bear down to Ivy City without getting that done?

Dutch does this for a living. I would no sooner argue with Dutch about rail equipment regulations then with George Harris about track rules and conditions.

That doesn't make him infallible, despite what he may think.

heres one for you: http://www.youtube.com/user/davidmagill1#p/u/55/mDuSWDTU8Dg don't get any woodies now ;-)

 

[Ryan]

Wouldn't Wilmington be the closest certified repair facility, since that's where they're being stored?

The P40's were stored at Bear, not at Wilmington.

He's not saying that they were stored at Wilmington, he's saying that Wilmington is closer to Bear than Ivy City is. I see that now you're saying they were taken to Wilmington before going to Ivy City, thanks for conceding that you were wrong earlier.

Incorrect, if that were the case how were they moved from Bear down to Ivy City without getting that done?

Dutch does this for a living. I would no sooner argue with Dutch about rail equipment regulations then with George Harris about track rules and conditions.

That doesn't make him infallible, despite what he may think.

heres one for you: http://www.youtube.com/user/davidmagill1#p/u/55/mDuSWDTU8Dg don't get any woodies now ;-)

What the devil is that for?

 

[jis]

heres one for you: http://www.youtube.com/user/davidmagill1#p/u/55/mDuSWDTU8Dg don't get any woodies now ;-)

Ah! The Turbo!

 

[jis]

Wouldn't Wilmington be the closest certified repair facility, since that's where they're being stored?

The P40's were stored at Bear, not at Wilmington.

He's not saying that they were stored at Wilmington, he's saying that Wilmington is closer to Bear than Ivy City is. I see that now you're saying they were taken to Wilmington before going to Ivy City, thanks for conceding that you were wrong earlier.

Interesting Hokie. How do you read the sentence "Wouldn't Wilmington be the closest certified repair facility, since that's where they're being stored?" and come to the conclusion that battalion is not saying that they were stored in Wilmington?

Are you and Dutch by the way going through a contentious separation proceedings or something? Some of your reaction to Dutch's postings seems to suggest such.

 

[Ryan]

That's what I get for posting before coffee.

No, it isn't much of a secret that I can't stand Dutch (and my mistake doesn't change the fact that he was still wrong earlier).

 

[battalion51]

Wouldn't Wilmington be the closest certified repair facility, since that's where they're being stored?

The P40's were stored at Bear, not at Wilmington.

I will continue to argue this. As evidenced by:

I'm not saying they were there permanently, but they were stored there for at least a little while.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Wouldn't Wilmington be the closest certified repair facility, since that's where they're being stored?

The P40's were stored at Bear, not at Wilmington.

I will continue to argue this.

I'm not saying they were there permanently, but they were stored there for at least a little while.

These shots are from when the P40's were in Service, not when they were stored, when is last time you saw E-60 in Wilmington ???

long before the P40's went into storage.

for info: E60MA 600 Scrapped late 2003, Wilmington DE

and from http://members.trainorders.com/geoff_s/amt.../index.html#P40

All those stored are allocated to Wilmington for maintenance, and normally stored at Bear. They do move occasionally between Wilmington and Bear for maintenance.

 

[Ryan]

Is that the corner of a MARC AEM-7 I spy on the left hand side of the 3rd picture? Definitely looks like an orange stripe under the blue to me.

 

[battalion51]

Wouldn't Wilmington be the closest certified repair facility, since that's where they're being stored?

The P40's were stored at Bear, not at Wilmington.

I will continue to argue this.

I'm not saying they were there permanently, but they were stored there for at least a little while.

These shots are from when the P40's were in Service, not when they were stored, when is last time you saw E-60 in Wilmington ???

long before the P40's went into storage.

for info: E60MA 600 Scrapped late 2003, Wilmington DE

and from http://members.trainorders.com/geoff_s/amt.../index.html#P40

All those stored are allocated to Wilmington for maintenance, and normally stored at Bear. They do move occasionally between Wilmington and Bear for maintenance.

Dutch, I hate to say it. You are wrong. I was there. Those motors were NOT in service, they were among the first to be stored in July of 03.

Hokie, yes, there was a MARC AEM-7 in the yard that day. IIRC, this is around the time they tried to start to re-furb the motors but had major mechanical issues that are just now beginning to be worked out.