New Lines

[Gerard]

I want to share some ideas for future Amtrak lines I've been thinking about. The first one is the revived Tennesseean, starting off on the Crescent's route from Washington to Lynchburg, then heading through Roanoke to Knoxville, Chattanooga and Memphis. The line could be extended from Memphis to Little Rock to meet the Texas Eagle. I would change it to go through Nashville, but there is a gap between Cookeville and Crossville which prevents that for now. If the line were re-routed through Nashville, the line between Chattanooga and Memphis could be used for a new line from Atlanta to Kansas City via Memphis and St Louis. Speaking of St Louis, I think it's odd that the City of New Orleans doesn't go through there.

The second idea based on an old line is the Floridian, from Chicago to Miami. However, instead of going through Birmingham after Nashville, I would reroute it through Atlanta to Savannah, then following the existing lines into Florida.

The third line would cross the Floridian making an X with the center in Nashville. It would run from New Orleans to Mobile, then through Montgomery and Birmingham to Nashville. It would continue into Kentucky, passing close to Mammoth Cave on the way to Louisville, where it would turn east and cross the Ohio River into Cincinatti. It would then connect the major cities in Ohio: Cincinatti, Dayton, Columbus, Akron and Cleveland.

The fourth line is an extension of the Heartland Flyer, from Oklahoma City through Tulsa and Springfield, MO to St Louis. From St Louis it would continue east to Indianapolis where it would turn north to Fort Wayne, Toledo and Detroit. It could even continue past Detroit to Flint and Saginaw.

The fifth line is another branch of the Heartland Flyer, continuing north through Wichita, then merging with the Southwest Chief to Kansas City, then north through Des Moines to the Twin Cities and maybe even Duluth.

The sixth line starts would branch off of the Sunset Limited in El Paso, heading north through Albuquerque and Denver to Cheyenne. This could be called the Mountaineer. It would utilize the Southwest Chief tracks between Albuquerque and Trinidad.

Other lines I would bring back are the Desert Wind and Pioneer, possibly merged into one line. I also have ideas for regional lines within states, such as connecting the Pacific Surfliner to the Capitol Corridor and creating a new Texas regional rail with frequent service in the triangle between Houston, Dallas and San Antonio.

 

[TVRM610]

C'mon C'mon Where are you? You are in the clouds and we are in a basement!

 

[wayman]

C'mon C'mon Where are you? You are in the clouds and we are in a basement!

Climbing one stair at a time only accomplishes something in increments of floors, not stairs. Setting your ultimate goal as the top floor, but having solid results to show off at each floor is critical; being able to climb a few flights without stopping for a breather builds everyone's confidence in you, especially if you plan ahead and know which two or more flights you could combine in a single run.

Yeah, this end result is the top floor, but--I haven't looked at it on a map to consider the actual practicalities, nor the details of what infrastructure has to be recreated from scratch or heavily improved--but it does seem to be implementable in stages, each of which doesn't sound impossible (to me) when considered by themselves.

If Amtrak gets six years of funding guaranteed by the House, I hope they can at least start on some of these (or similar projects) with a solid goal in mind for how multiple projects will mesh and network and create matrix traffic with their existing system, instead of only creating new routes for state corridors that don't necessarily contribute to the system as a whole, just to a local region. Those corridors are helpful as (I think?) revenue sources as well as PR and consciousness raising, but in my opinion they should be approached as stairs on a larger stairwell, not as lily pads on a pond to be jumped to whenever one looks particularly attractive.

Note: I am not an economist (though I play one in Railroad Tycoon )

 

[jphjaxfl]

To develop new Amtrak routes, the states through which those routes run are going to likely have to come up with some funding. In most cases infrastructure would have to upgraded and expanded. Even with additional funding, the new or expanded routes of the future are likely to be corridor routes like what has happened in Illinois or The Downeaster route. When routes have 3 or more frequencies per day, they will likely be more attractive to new customers.

 

[George Harris]

Speaking of St Louis, I think it's odd that the City of New Orleans doesn't go through there.

It never did. There was always a stub train between St. Louis and Carbondale. Same for the other ICRR trains.

For your other items, some have been proposed by others already. Some not.

 

[TVRM610]

By the way my above post about being in the clouds was meant mainly as a joke, it's from a movie, hopefully someone will get it

I should say that I would be happy to see any of those trains added to service, especially the Floridian, I would be a top customer on that train!

An additional route that I think is very feasable is Atlanta-Chattanooga-Knoxville-Cincinatti. This is all NS track, and it is mostly double track, in addition to serving several new cities, it would also link the Cardinal and the Crescent, thereby making a Chicago-Atlanta trip much less time consuming.

 

[MrFSS]

By the way my above post about being in the clouds was meant mainly as a joke, it's from a movie, hopefully someone will get it
I should say that I would be happy to see any of those trains added to service, especially the Floridian, I would be a top customer on that train!

An additional route that I think is very feasible is Atlanta-Chattanooga-Knoxville-Cincinnati. This is all NS track, and it is mostly double track, in addition to serving several new cities, it would also link the Cardinal and the Crescent, thereby making a Chicago-Atlanta trip much less time consuming.

I'd vote for that one, too. It would go past where I live and put me near an Amtrak train to connect to the rest of the country! It isn't double track in Central Kentucky but it is very good and well maintained track. Freights roar through at 50-60 MPH.

 

[haolerider]

By the way my above post about being in the clouds was meant mainly as a joke, it's from a movie, hopefully someone will get it
I should say that I would be happy to see any of those trains added to service, especially the Floridian, I would be a top customer on that train!

An additional route that I think is very feasible is Atlanta-Chattanooga-Knoxville-Cincinnati. This is all NS track, and it is mostly double track, in addition to serving several new cities, it would also link the Cardinal and the Crescent, thereby making a Chicago-Atlanta trip much less time consuming.

I'd vote for that one, too. It would go past where I live and put me near an Amtrak train to connect to the rest of the country! It isn't double track in Central Kentucky but it is very good and well maintained track. Freights roar through at 50-60 MPH.

Everyone seems to want a train that they can ride - close to their house - and for their use. Amtrak needs to get the operation in order for the trains that they operate now and then find funding for additional routes that make sense and that have some chance of getting approval from the track owners to run new trains. I seriously doubt if any of the freight roads are going to welcome Amtrak with open arms when the requests for additional runs come to them. Let's focus on the now and get that right and then focus on the future.

 

[George Harris]

An additional route that I think is very feasable is Atlanta-Chattanooga-Knoxville-Cincinatti. This is all NS track, and it is mostly double track, in addition to serving several new cities, it would also link the Cardinal and the Crescent, thereby making a Chicago-Atlanta trip much less time consuming.

"All NS track" Well, yes, but not the direct line.

Atlanta to Chattanooga: We have more or less parallel NS and CSX lines. About 4 hours on either one if you can stay out of sidings. Unlikely as both are very busy lines.

Chattanooga to Knoxville: NS, yes. Back when it had passenger trains the fastest practical schedule appeared to be about 2h45m, for 110 miles. With reductions in superelevation, say probably about 3 hours.

Knoxville to Cincinatti: two ways to do it:

NS, Knoxville -Harriman - Somorset - Cincinatti. Schedule about 9 hours when the Carolina Special was running. Knoxville to Harriman was 2 hours of that and unlikely to be doable in much less. Harriman north on the CNO&TP, maybe 6 hours, so 8 hours probably about as good as you can do.

CSX, Knoxville - Corbin - Lexington? - Cincinatti. Scheduled for slightly less than 8 hours near the end of passenger service.

Would there be any market for a Atlanta to Cincinatti train that would take at least 15 hours, given that you can drive it in uder 8?

 

[TVRM610]

Would there be any market for a Atlanta to Cincinatti train that would take at least 15 hours, given that you can drive it in uder 8?

Haha not really. I thought it was more direct than that... scratch that one off the list!

 

[AlanB]

If Amtrak gets six years of funding guaranteed by the House, I hope they can at least start on some of these (or similar projects) with a solid goal in mind for how multiple projects will mesh and network and create matrix traffic with their existing system, instead of only creating new routes for state corridors that don't necessarily contribute to the system as a whole, just to a local region. Those corridors are helpful as (I think?) revenue sources as well as PR and consciousness raising, but in my opinion they should be approached as stairs on a larger stairwell, not as lily pads on a pond to be jumped to whenever one looks particularly attractive.

As PRR60 noted in a post in another topic, the bill just passed by the Senate and now headed to the House for consideration is an authorization bill and not an appropriation bill. And that is a very important difference.

This is a plan, a way of saying we plan to spend X on these things during this time. But the money is not guaranteed. During each fiscal year of the plan, Congress must still vote to actually appropriate or give Amtrak the money.

There have been authorization bills for Amtrak in the past, and in many of the cases, Congress ended up giving Amtrak less than what was authorized.

So again, this is a very positive sign from Congress, one we haven't seen in years. And it does make it a bit easier for Amtrak to try and plan things. Additionally it carries with it a few things that are useful, like trying to give Amtrak a bigger hammer when the freight RR's dump Amtrak in the hole.

But it guarantees nothing! And that assumes that the House does agree, and that either Bush doesn't veto it or that Congress can override a veto.

 

[rtabern]

I'm wondering what are the chances of a presidential veto on this. UGGHH!!

Speaking of new lines -- how about a morning depature out of Chicago going to MSP... maybe with Horizon equipment and a cafe car? Given the amount of people who use the Empire Builder just to go between CHI-MSP, this actually might be a resonable idea!

 

[Penn Central]

How many bills has Bush vetoed in his entire six years? Three, I believe. Anything that he vetoes or seriously threatens to veto becomes extremely significant, just look at SCHIP. Bush doesn't hate Amtrak, per say, he just thinks it beneath his notice. My bet is that if this becomes an actual appropriation bill, if will just sit on Bush's desk for ten days and become law automatically. He's not going to sign it, we know that, at least, for certain.