New NYP restrooms open, kind of nice

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Ryan

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When we took to Boy to NY for his birthday a few months ago, I noted that the Men's room was closed for refurbishment. While it was a pain then, the newly renovated ones are quite nice. Pictures here:

http://gothamist.com/2018/05/23/penn_station_amtrak_mens_restroom.php

"That's a home run right there, bro," Dudenhoffer said, pointing to the new restroom. "Even the sinks! They're the really nice ones with the water and the soap and the air dryer all in one. Bro, I'm so impressed with what they've done."
 

cpotisch

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Those bathrooms look nice now, but give 'em a few months of use and it'll be just as bad as it ever was. Whenever they refurbish ANYTHING at Penn Station, in a couple months it's just as dirty and smelly as before. Fingers crossed, though!
 

greatcats

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Aw gee, I was in Penn Station on May 10 and visited the temporary facilities. Now I am back in Arizona and will have to make a return trip to New York!
 

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What NYP needs is a routine toilet cleaning service like you see at NRT or KIX.
 
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It's not often that you can take photos of bathrooms, it must have been before they opened to the public. When I clicked on the post I was half expecting to see some inappropriate pictures, followed by a post about being arrested!
 

Lonestar648

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Photos were taken during a press tour, must have been a slow news day.
 

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What NYP needs is a routine toilet cleaning service like you see at NRT or KIX.
On second thought maybe a series of Supermax isolation cubes would be more appropriate.
 
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willem

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What NYP needs is a routine toilet cleaning service like you see at NRT or KIX.
I'm picking on this poster because DA often seems concerned with providing information clearly, and in this case (at least for me) has failed. Maybe I'm just slow today, but NRT and KIX mean nothing to me. I don't even know if they are airports, train stations, or something else. With other posters, I would assume that the poster is trying to show off his or her detailed knowledge, as if there were bonus points for speaking only to those clever enough to know the abbreviations or look them up.

Although this rant is posted as a reply to DA's comment, it is more directed at at people who ask for information or advice and use station codes for locations that I expect most people will not recognize. Perhaps those posters figure that only someone who knows the out-of-the-way station codes will have anything useful to contribute to his or her query. In a community setting such as Amtrak Unlimited, where sharing of knowledge seems to be a goal, it seems odd to make the gleaning of the knowledge more difficult.

In short, what does one hope to gain by using obscure station codes rather than naming the location?
 
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Ryan

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We have this same argument every few months here.

I think that it’s understood that there is a basic level of literacy amongst frequent posters here, and referring to stations by their abbreviations is perfectly reasonable. It’s much easier to write NYP than it is Pennsylvania Station in New York.

Narita (NRT) is one of the worlds most popular airports, and while I didn’t know KIX, based on DA’s point about frequent restroom cleanings, it was a safe assumption that it was another airport in Asia somewhere that takes more pride in cleanliness than we seem to here in the states.

Less than 10 seconds with google searching “KIX Airport” confirmed that it was in fact Kansai International Airport, also in Japan.
 

cpotisch

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We have this same argument every few months here.

I think that it’s understood that there is a basic level of literacy amongst frequent posters here, and referring to stations by their abbreviations is perfectly reasonable. It’s much easier to write NYP than it is Pennsylvania Station in New York.

Narita (NRT) is one of the worlds most popular airports, and while I didn’t know KIX, based on DA’s point about frequent restroom cleanings, it was a safe assumption that it was another airport in Asia somewhere that takes more pride in cleanliness than we seem to here in the states.

Less than 10 seconds with google searching “KIX Airport” confirmed that it was in fact Kansai International Airport, also in Japan.
Thank you! People use airport and station codes all the time on AU and even if you're not sure, it's so easy to look up! Especially since Narita is a very large airport, and shows up on the first page of results if you just search for "NRT". And whether you search for 'KIX station' or 'KIX airport', Kansai International Airport always comes up first.
 
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MikefromCrete

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If information is presented clearly and completely, there's no need for a reader to look elsewhere to understand the writer's intent. DA could have easily wrote the names of the airports or said airports in Japan. NYP is one thing. Codes for Japanese airports are something else.
 

Thirdrail7

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What NYP needs is a routine toilet cleaning service like you see at NRT or KIX.
I'm picking on this poster because DA often seems concerned with providing information clearly, and in this case (at least for me) has failed. Maybe I'm just slow today, but NRT and KIX mean nothing to me. I don't even know if they are airports, train stations, or something else. With other posters, I would assume that the poster is trying to show off his or her detailed knowledge, as if there were bonus points for speaking only to those clever enough to know the abbreviations or look them up.

Although this rant is posted as a reply to DA's comment, it is more directed at at people who ask for information or advice and use station codes for locations that I expect most people will not recognize. Perhaps those posters figure that only someone who knows the out-of-the-way station codes will have anything useful to contribute to his or her query. In a community setting such as Amtrak Unlimited, where sharing of knowledge seems to be a goal, it seems odd to make the gleaning of the knowledge more difficult.

In short, what does one hope to gain by using obscure station codes rather than naming the location?
If information is presented clearly and completely, there's no need for a reader to look elsewhere to understand the writer's intent. DA could have easily wrote the names of the airports or said airports in Japan. NYP is one thing. Codes for Japanese airports are something else.
Sorry, but I'm probably one of the biggest offenders of jargon and abbreviations. It is not designed to "show off" or prove we are members of a cabal that likes to post so infrequent members can't follow along.

Most times, it is done for the sake of brevity. You can always ask or google if there is confusion but if you want someone to type terms such as Qualified Maintenance Person (QMP) or Hialeah (instead of HIA,,,which still doesn't define the role of the facility) every single time they are mentioned, the posts will come infrequently.

I didn't know the codes DA used either. I could either look them up or just try to understand the context in which they were being used. I chose the latter. I don't really need to know the specific location to understand his point....the restrooms need FAR more attention than they receive.

It isn't much different than most of the other shorthand that is used these days.
 

AmtrakBlue

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What NYP needs is a routine toilet cleaning service like you see at NRT or KIX.
I'm picking on this poster because DA often seems concerned with providing information clearly, and in this case (at least for me) has failed. Maybe I'm just slow today, but NRT and KIX mean nothing to me. I don't even know if they are airports, train stations, or something else. With other posters, I would assume that the poster is trying to show off his or her detailed knowledge, as if there were bonus points for speaking only to those clever enough to know the abbreviations or look them up.

Although this rant is posted as a reply to DA's comment, it is more directed at at people who ask for information or advice and use station codes for locations that I expect most people will not recognize. Perhaps those posters figure that only someone who knows the out-of-the-way station codes will have anything useful to contribute to his or her query. In a community setting such as Amtrak Unlimited, where sharing of knowledge seems to be a goal, it seems odd to make the gleaning of the knowledge more difficult.

In short, what does one hope to gain by using obscure station codes rather than naming the location?
If information is presented clearly and completely, there's no need for a reader to look elsewhere to understand the writer's intent. DA could have easily wrote the names of the airports or said airports in Japan. NYP is one thing. Codes for Japanese airports are something else.
Sorry, but I'm probably one of the biggest offenders of jargon and abbreviations. It is not designed to "show off" or prove we are members of a cabal that likes to post so infrequent members can't follow along.

Most times, it is done for the sake of brevity. You can always ask or google if there is confusion but if you want someone to type terms such as Qualified Maintenance Person (QMP) or Hialeah (instead of HIA,,,which still doesn't define the role of the facility) every single time they are mentioned, the posts will come infrequently.

I didn't know the codes DA used either. I could either look them up or just try to understand the context in which they were being used. I chose the latter. I don't really need to know the specific location to understand his point....the restrooms need FAR more attention than they receive.

It isn't much different than most of the other shorthand that is used these days.
TY TR7.
 
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Seaboard92

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It must be a sad state of affairs in American railroading when we are excited for revamped restrooms in a train station.
 

jis

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It must be a sad state of affairs in American railroading when we are excited for revamped restrooms in a train station.
Well, we can't really talk about the food on the train, the new equipment or the on time performance at this point.
That’s what too many boxed cold dinners will do to your brain [emoji849][emoji848][emoji51]
 

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What NYP needs is a routine toilet cleaning service like you see at NRT or KIX.
I'm picking on this poster because DA often seems concerned with providing information clearly, and in this case (at least for me) has failed. Maybe I'm just slow today, but NRT and KIX mean nothing to me. I don't even know if they are airports, train stations, or something else. With other posters, I would assume that the poster is trying to show off his or her detailed knowledge, as if there were bonus points for speaking only to those clever enough to know the abbreviations or look them up.
I don't recall any particular motive or purpose at the time of posting. In addition to Amtrak I follow airline related news and I personally gravitate toward acronyms and abbreviations, so in my own mind when I visualize Kansai International Airport it actually starts out as "KIX" first and then has to be expanded into the full name afterward. If I type and post quickly without stopping it may not even register that I didn't use the actual name.

If information is presented clearly and completely, there's no need for a reader to look elsewhere to understand the writer's intent. DA could have easily wrote the names of the airports or said airports in Japan. NYP is one thing. Codes for Japanese airports are something else.
Point taken.
 

Steve4031

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What NYP needs is a routine toilet cleaning service like you see at NRT or KIX.
I'm picking on this poster because DA often seems concerned with providing information clearly, and in this case (at least for me) has failed. Maybe I'm just slow today, but NRT and KIX mean nothing to me. I don't even know if they are airports, train stations, or something else. With other posters, I would assume that the poster is trying to show off his or her detailed knowledge, as if there were bonus points for speaking only to those clever enough to know the abbreviations or look them up.

Although this rant is posted as a reply to DA's comment, it is more directed at at people who ask for information or advice and use station codes for locations that I expect most people will not recognize. Perhaps those posters figure that only someone who knows the out-of-the-way station codes will have anything useful to contribute to his or her query. In a community setting such as Amtrak Unlimited, where sharing of knowledge seems to be a goal, it seems odd to make the gleaning of the knowledge more difficult.

In short, what does one hope to gain by using obscure station codes rather than naming the location?
If information is presented clearly and completely, there's no need for a reader to look elsewhere to understand the writer's intent. DA could have easily wrote the names of the airports or said airports in Japan. NYP is one thing. Codes for Japanese airports are something else.
Sorry, but I'm probably one of the biggest offenders of jargon and abbreviations. It is not designed to "show off" or prove we are members of a cabal that likes to post so infrequent members can't follow along.

Most times, it is done for the sake of brevity. You can always ask or google if there is confusion but if you want someone to type terms such as Qualified Maintenance Person (QMP) or Hialeah (instead of HIA,,,which still doesn't define the role of the facility) every single time they are mentioned, the posts will come infrequently.

I didn't know the codes DA used either. I could either look them up or just try to understand the context in which they were being used. I chose the latter. I don't really need to know the specific location to understand his point....the restrooms need FAR more attention than they receive.

It isn't much different than most of the other shorthand that is used these days.
 

willem

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Less than 10 seconds with google searching “KIX Airport” confirmed that it was in fact Kansai International Airport, also in Japan.
Less than 15 seconds of typing would eliminate the need for each person who didn't know the airport but wanted to know to use a search engine. And, as I noted in my original post, I didn't know if it was an airport.

Sorry, but I'm probably one of the biggest offenders of jargon and abbreviations. It is not designed to "show off" or prove we are members of a cabal that likes to post so infrequent members can't follow along.

Most times, it is done for the sake of brevity. You can always ask or google if there is confusion but if you want someone to type terms such as Qualified Maintenance Person (QMP) or Hialeah (instead of HIA,,,which still doesn't define the role of the facility) every single time they are mentioned, the posts will come infrequently.

I didn't know the codes DA used either. I could either look them up or just try to understand the context in which they were being used. I chose the latter. I don't really need to know the specific location to understand his point....the restrooms need FAR more attention than they receive.

It isn't much different than most of the other shorthand that is used these days.
It might not be designed so that infrequent members (or even some frequent members) can't follow along, but that can be the effect. I'm just pointing that out. And suggesting that someone who is requesting information should not make it difficult for someone else to understand what information is being requested. (Example is below.)

Brevity at the expense of communication seems like a false economy, unless one doesn't care about the effect. And I certainly wasn't suggesting that TLAs need to be spelled out every single time they are mentioned.

Like you, I chose the latter, but I also posted my thoughts in response to DA's comment because I thought it was less likely to be taken as an attack than if I posted the same thought in direct response to someone asking a question about ALY or WSF with no further hint. Also, I'm confident that DA has thick skin.

And being not much different from most of anything doesn't make it right.

In addition to Amtrak I follow airline related news and I personally gravitate toward acronyms and abbreviations, so in my own mind when I visualize Kansai International Airport it actually starts out as "KIX" first and then has to be expanded into the full name afterward. If I type and post quickly without stopping it may not even register that I didn't use the actual name.
There is no requirement that information be clear. If a poster wants the information to be clear, then I hope I've sparked a thought. Of course, if the poster does not care if the information is clear, then we're back to showing off or proving membership in a cabal that likes to post so infrequent members can't follow along.
 

cpotisch

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The snark in that article is worthy of a Pulitzer.
Amen!

"You no longer need to twist your Auntie Anne's pretzel into a crucifix before entering the infamous men's restroom of Penn Station. New renovations have made the lavatory cleaner, nicer, and more functional than the rest of Penn Station itself. Located next to TGI Friday's on the main Amtrak concourse level, the restroom is now immaculately equipped to bear the quiet sighs and unspeakable horrors of the hundreds of thousands of human beings who squeeze through Penn Station's bowels every day."

"...claiming that they impede their own efforts to rehab the grey, time capsule of woe. But if Amtrak and the MTA must have a pissing contest, they should have it at one of the new 21 pristine Toto urinals."

"Dudenhoffer described the conditions in the previous bathroom as "a **** den.""
 

Seaboard92

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The snark in that article is worthy of a Pulitzer.
Amen!
"You no longer need to twist your Auntie Anne's pretzel into a crucifix before entering the infamous men's restroom of Penn Station. New renovations have made the lavatory cleaner, nicer, and more functional than the rest of Penn Station itself. Located next to TGI Friday's on the main Amtrak concourse level, the restroom is now immaculately equipped to bear the quiet sighs and unspeakable horrors of the hundreds of thousands of human beings who squeeze through Penn Station's bowels every day."

"...claiming that they impede their own efforts to rehab the grey, time capsule of woe. But if Amtrak and the MTA must have a pissing contest, they should have it at one of the new 21 pristine Toto urinals."

"Dudenhoffer described the conditions in the previous bathroom as "a **** den.""
That's fantastic. I'm sending this to some friends for a laugh.
 

Thirdrail7

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Sorry, but I'm probably one of the biggest offenders of jargon and abbreviations. It is not designed to "show off" or prove we are members of a cabal that likes to post so infrequent members can't follow along.

Most times, it is done for the sake of brevity. You can always ask or google if there is confusion but if you want someone to type terms such as Qualified Maintenance Person (QMP) or Hialeah (instead of HIA,,,which still doesn't define the role of the facility) every single time they are mentioned, the posts will come infrequently.

I didn't know the codes DA used either. I could either look them up or just try to understand the context in which they were being used. I chose the latter. I don't really need to know the specific location to understand his point....the restrooms need FAR more attention than they receive.

It isn't much different than most of the other shorthand that is used these days.
It might not be designed so that infrequent members (or even some frequent members) can't follow along, but that can be the effect. I'm just pointing that out. And suggesting that someone who is requesting information should not make it difficult for someone else to understand what information is being requested. (Example is below.)

Brevity at the expense of communication seems like a false economy, unless one doesn't care about the effect. And I certainly wasn't suggesting that TLAs need to be spelled out every single time they are mentioned.

Like you, I chose the latter, but I also posted my thoughts in response to DA's comment because I thought it was less likely to be taken as an attack than if I posted the same thought in direct response to someone asking a question about ALY or WSF with no further hint. Also, I'm confident that DA has thick skin.

And being not much different from most of anything doesn't make it right.
Your entire point is highly subjective. If the point is to communicate and the VAST majority of people understand the intent of the post, then we have been successful. If brevity allows for more communication, there is no false economy in that.

This board is about reaching the masses. If you need specific information, there is a PM feature and a list of frequently used terms and abbreviations. Even in the case above, not knowing the abbreviation zero had impact on the intent or application of the information DA was trying to convey.

After all, I've never been to that airport and as such, wouldn't know what the rest rooms look like. I also wouldn't know how often or how they're cleaned. Should I now ask DA for pictures of the rest room, a schedule of the rest room cleanings and footage so I can understand what he is referring to so I have a frame of reference?

Not everything that is posted on this board is going to be immediately understood by everyone but like most things, if you actually utilize the tool that is the board, it becomes easier to use....whether you expend effort to learn how to use the tool or not.
 
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Ryan

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There is also something of a difference between a thread where someone unfamiliar is seeking information, and a thread like this one where the exact places DA was talking about were unimportant to understanding his overall meaning.
 
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