New Rail Tunnel Into Manhattan

[MrFSS]

Don't know if this has been repoorted or not, but I saw this SITE today about a new tunnel from New Jersey into mid-town Manhattan that will help the commute.

 

[battalion51]

THE Tunnel has been a project many in the New York area have wanted for a long time. With improved clearances for bi-level cars, third rail, and additional capacity it will allow a lot more flexibility for both NJT and Amtrak once completed.

 

[printman2000]

THE Tunnel has been a project many in the New York area have wanted for a long time. With improved clearances for bi-level cars, third rail, and additional capacity it will allow a lot more flexibility for both NJT and Amtrak once completed.

Are you saying that Amtrak would be able take superliners into NY?

 

[AlanB]

Are you saying that Amtrak would be able take superliners into NY?

Not with any regularity, if ever. The new tunnel might be high enough to clear a Superliner, but I'm not sure that all of the wires, signals, and other miscellanous equipment within Penn would be high enough to clear a Superliner.

Even if all of the above can clear a Superliner, it still wouldn't be practical to operate any into Penn since they won't fit through the East River tunnels. That means no access to Sunnyside yard and the service/cleaning facilities over there.

 

[battalion51]

When I said bi-level I was refering to the bi-level commuter cars that NJT plans to run which are similar to those purchased by LIRR.

 

[George Harris]

Superliners are set up for low platform loading and unloading only. If you got one into Penn station, when the door opened you would be looking at the platform edge somewhere between mid-thigh and waist high.

The way many countries do it with bi-levels is that the doors are at the ends over the trucks so that they are set up for high platform loading and unloading. However, this means that cars are effectively three level, with a ramp or steps both down and up to a depressed center section which has the raised second level above it. The capacity of these cars is less than a superliner, and you do not have the convenience of everything being on one level when you go between cars.

Talking about extra tunnels into New York. It appears that there will be a Long Island station built underneath Grand Central in the next few years. This is going beyond planning into a design phase.

george

 

[AlanB]

Talking about extra tunnels into New York. It appears that there will be a Long Island station built underneath Grand Central in the next few years. This is going beyond planning into a design phase.

This East Side Access project is already way beyond the design phase. The tunnel under the East River has been in place for years already, tracks from the old MU Yard at Sunnyside have been ripped up in preperation, Metro North's Highbridge shops and rail yard as well as the LIRR's Long Island City shops and rail yard have been built and are in service, and finally work at the mouth of the East River tunnel on the Queens side is already underway.

Of course most of those are rather small projects when compared to the overall scope of the entire project, but nonetheless the project is moving forward.

 

[George Harris]

The tunnel under the East River has been in place for years already,

That is one of the understatements of the age. I think this tunnel has been in place about 30 years.

 

[AlanB]

The tunnel under the East River has been in place for years already,

That is one of the understatements of the age. I think this tunnel has been in place about 30 years.

That sounds about right, George. I believe that it was the 70's when they sank that tunnel.

The subway has certainly been using it for at least the last 10 years or so now.

 

[Guest]

Are you saying that Amtrak would be able take superliners into NY?

Not with any regularity, if ever. The new tunnel might be high enough to clear a Superliner, but I'm not sure that all of the wires, signals, and other miscellanous equipment within Penn would be high enough to clear a Superliner.

Even if all of the above can clear a Superliner, it still wouldn't be practical to operate any into Penn since they won't fit through the East River tunnels. That means no access to Sunnyside yard and the service/cleaning facilities over there.

just out of curiousity, what's the closest that Amtrak can theoretically run Superliner trains to NYC without any height clearance and/or platform unloading-loading problems? i'd imagine that they could run them possibly inbetween Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, if they wanted to, though i'm unsure about the NEC's platform and height clearance(as i thought the NEC mainly had high platforms). it's too bad that the plan for this new tunnel still wouldn't allow for Superliners to be used for NYC, due to Penn Statn.'s clearance and platform height.

 

[Trogdor]

just out of curiousity, what's the closest that Amtrak can theoretically run Superliner trains to NYC without any height clearance and/or platform unloading-loading problems? i'd imagine that they could run them possibly inbetween Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, if they wanted to, though i'm unsure about the NEC's platform and height clearance(as i thought the NEC mainly had high platforms). it's too bad that the plan for this new tunnel still wouldn't allow for Superliners to be used for NYC, due to Penn Statn.'s clearance and platform height.

I think this was already discussed recently. However, Philadelphia would cause problems due to catenary height and, I believe, platform height. A decade or so ago, there was a special train that operated to PHL with Superliners, but Amtrak had a transition car and a single-level coach to allow entry and egress, and I think they also had to deenergize the catenary above the track on which the train was stored.

 

[Sam Damon]

just out of curiousity, what's the closest that Amtrak can theoretically run Superliner trains to NYC without any height clearance and/or platform unloading-loading problems? i'd imagine that they could run them possibly inbetween Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, if they wanted to, though i'm unsure about the NEC's platform and height clearance(as i thought the NEC mainly had high platforms). it's too bad that the plan for this new tunnel still wouldn't allow for Superliners to be used for NYC, due to Penn Statn.'s clearance and platform height.

Realistically, Harrisburg is about as close as Amtrak could go.

Where they would turn them, I'm not sure. But the Harrisburg station does have low-level platforms available.

 

[Guest]

WAS is the closest they do run SUperliners, I don't think they could do it elsewere along the NEC without problems. Veiwliners and the Acela are nicer (in my opinion) anyway. As for the new tunnel, I know that the bilevel NJT cars can fit into the old tunnels, but with this new one, possbly there would be room for greater headroom.