New system timetable now out

[AmtrakCrescent20]

I usually try not to "cross post" from other forums, but because we've been discussing this so much lately, I decided to post. In this TO thread, a poster claims to have found a system timetable and that it contains major changes to the dining service, most notably the conversion of the LSL, Texas Eagle, and City of New Orleans to diner lite. (Moderators feel free to delete this if it violates the forum policies)

 

[saxman]

I usually try not to "cross post" from other forums, but because we've been discussing this so much lately, I decided to post. In this TO thread, a poster claims to have found a system timetable and that it contains major changes to the dining service, most notably the conversion of the LSL, Texas Eagle, and City of New Orleans to diner lite. (Moderators feel free to delete this if it violates the forum policies)

I saw it was only to be put on the City of NO. The new timetables are set to come out at the end of the month. They posted pictures of the diner-lounge on the NARP website.

 

[yarrow]

also notable to me in the t.o. thread is confirmation of return of the coast starlight as a premier train and enhanced dining(whatever that means) on the eb. can't wait for my own copy of the new timetable

 

[AlanB]

I usually try not to "cross post" from other forums, but because we've been discussing this so much lately, I decided to post. In this TO thread, a poster claims to have found a system timetable and that it contains major changes to the dining service, most notably the conversion of the LSL, Texas Eagle, and City of New Orleans to diner lite. (Moderators feel free to delete this if it violates the forum policies)

I saw it was only to be put on the City of NO. The new timetables are set to come out at the end of the month. They posted pictures of the diner-lounge on the NARP website.

Well I can't speak to the news about the Eagle, although it wouldn't surprise me if that train went Diner-Lite at least during off peak times. The City is a forgone conclusion, and I can definately understand it's going Diner-Lite during off peak times. It might still warrant a full diner during peak time though.

And the LSL has already gone over to Diner-Lite, with a Horizon Dinette serving as the cafe car. While I can understand the problems surrounding keeping the old Heritage diner's running, Diner-Lite IMHO is a big mistake for this line. Especially with the sleeper occupancy levels that I saw on my trip home from Chicago. Where Amtrak finds dining cars to run is another question, but somehow they must find them.

 

[Steve4031]

I think I will just stay off of the Lakeshore when going to the east coast. I can always do the Capitol.

How did it work on your trip back to New York?

 

[AlanB]

How did it work on your trip back to New York?

I assume that you mean how did the car and the service work? To that end, let me start by saying that I thought the crew was fantastic, quite probably one of the best if not the best diner crews I've ever seen on the LSL. Both SA's were very friendly, worked as hard and as fast as they possibly could, and went out of their way whenever they could do so to do the best for their customers. Frankly the weakest link was probably the LSA, and even she wasn't bad, I just didn't have much interaction with her and at least initially she seemed a bit standoffish. Although I did speak with her briefly at lunch and told her that he crew was great and she did thank me for that and told me that they are all still trying to adjust to the Diner-Lite concept.

The wine and cheese party out of Chicago was very nice. I had several glasses of wine and both SA's were walking back and forth with wine, as well as cider for those who didn't want wine or couldn't have wine. I started out sitting with a couple from England, who were in the roomette next to mine, but they left early and I ended up with several other new tablemates. We basically closed the car, leaving just past 10:15 or so and after we had already gotten underway.

Breakfast the next morning went well as again service was prompt and friendly. The French Toast was a bit tough, as is sometimes the case with the new SDS style of French Toast. My coffee was refilled twice, once without my even asking for more. He did somehow screw up bringing me my orange juice initially, not sure if I just didn't say it loudly enough, or if he just forgot it. But when I asked again, it was delivered promptly.

Lunch was probably the worst of the meals, but in all fairness it was also the busiest meal with the car being filled to capacity and everyone arriving within 15 minutes of one another. They probably need to consider doing reservations for lunch in all honesty. Some confusion did arrive during lunch, due in part to the fact that the salad choice was unavailable. I didn't quite catch why, but apparently the salads froze. Not sure if the fridge was just working overtime, or if someone had put them in the freezer by accident.

That led to one person at my table instead wanting to have two appetizers for lunch, whereupon he was informed that appetizers aren't included for sleeping car passengers. Even if they are substituting for an unavailable lunch choice. The gentleman wasn't exactly happy, but he did pay up front for his two appetizers, which he seemed to enjoy.

My lunch however was just fine, as I had the Angus burger. They did run out of vanilla ice cream before I could get any, so I had to settle for chocolate.

I was impressed that we had a fully staffed Diner-Lite, with one cook, to SA's, and one LSA. It wouldn't have surprised me to find only one SA and one LSA, but it would be a mistake for Amtrak to ever cut staffing to that level on this route as the crew was overwhelmed during lunch. That was the slowest service that I had during the trip, but it was understandably slow because of the passenger load in the car. And it wasn't horribly slow, just not as prompt as breakfast had been.

Interestingly, they don’t use the standard two part guest checks; they use a single sheet of paper for the orders. And they aren’t number controlled, like the normal dining car checks. I’m a bit surprised that they aren’t number controlled, but perhaps that is coming.

All of that said; I still don't believe that Diner-Lite is the correct answer, especially for trains that seem to typically run at least 50% to 60% full year round, and perhaps even higher. I do understand that Amtrak doesn't have viable single level dining cars to put on the road, but new dining cars should be at the top of the new equipment shopping list for Amtrak.

 

[daveyb99]

My concern in the 50% reduction of space for meal service and the more-than-50% reduction of space in the Lounge.

I have not experienced the new car design yet, but am hoping is works.

I also hope AMTRAK mothballs the Lounge cars for when-and-if they decide the extra capacity is needed. If they add Lounges back, it should go between the Sleeper and "Diner" for the exclusive use of Sleeper passengers.

Maybe they can put one on the Heartland Flyer

 

[wayman]

I was impressed that we had a fully staffed Diner-Lite, with one cook, to SA's, and one LSA. It wouldn't have surprised me to find only one SA and one LSA, but it would be a mistake for Amtrak to ever cut staffing to that level on this route as the crew was overwhelmed during lunch. That was the slowest service that I had during the trip, but it was understandably slow because of the passenger load in the car. And it wasn't horribly slow, just not as prompt as breakfast had been.

Alan,

I get the impression from your description of the Diner-Lite on the LSL that this car has a different configuration than Diner-Lite I encountered on the Cardinal last month. The Cardinal's D-L basically had a staff of one--Joannie--who did everything relating to the dining-car side of things from cooking to serving to cleaning to accounting. She ran the entire dining half of the car solo. There was another crewmember staffing the cafe, selling drinks and sandwiches and sundries for the cafe half of the car. And that was it.

What you're describing sounds much more like a full dining car, crew-wise. Was the entire car used for seating dining passengers for full meals (as opposed to half the car being cafe)? Was there even a staffed cafe counter, or was that whole center area turned into the cook's territory, or what? Please, please, please say there was an effective seating capacity for more than twenty diners at a time!

Thanks, Will

 

[AlanB]

I was impressed that we had a fully staffed Diner-Lite, with one cook, to SA's, and one LSA. It wouldn't have surprised me to find only one SA and one LSA, but it would be a mistake for Amtrak to ever cut staffing to that level on this route as the crew was overwhelmed during lunch. That was the slowest service that I had during the trip, but it was understandably slow because of the passenger load in the car. And it wasn't horribly slow, just not as prompt as breakfast had been.

Alan,

I get the impression from your description of the Diner-Lite on the LSL that this car has a different configuration than Diner-Lite I encountered on the Cardinal last month. The Cardinal's D-L basically had a staff of one--Joannie--who did everything relating to the dining-car side of things from cooking to serving to cleaning to accounting. She ran the entire dining half of the car solo. There was another crewmember staffing the cafe, selling drinks and sandwiches and sundries for the cafe half of the car. And that was it.

What you're describing sounds much more like a full dining car, crew-wise. Was the entire car used for seating dining passengers for full meals (as opposed to half the car being cafe)? Was there even a staffed cafe counter, or was that whole center area turned into the cook's territory, or what? Please, please, please say there was an effective seating capacity for more than twenty diners at a time!

Thanks, Will

Will, as I noted above in a much earlier post we had the luxury of having a seperate cafe car in the consist. A Horizon car, but still a seperate cafe car nonetheless. So that did indeed allow for the entire diner lite car to be used as a dining car, something desperately needed on a train with three Viewliner sleepers that were filled almost to capacity.

The Amfleet II Diner-Lite car didn't look any different than the pictures that I've seen of the one on the Cardinal, but it definately was staffed differently. With two SA's, one LSA, and one cook (or at least I assume that was his title, since he was basically dressed like a cook). Of course his cooking consisted of dropping ready made meals into convection ovens.

 

[Bosworth Johnson]

Cars 37002, 37003, 37004 arrived in New Orleans over the weekend, crew training was supposed to begin today.

Oddly, 37001 was supposedly being shipped back to Beech Grove for unknown reasons. It had been here a while, but went out on train 58 Saturday (passing the other three cars in the swamps on the way).

I am told that there will be three train sets committed just to the City until such time as there are enough extra DL's to rotate the City's equipment with the Eagle, as has been the case now for a while.

According to reports, train 59 will pre-board at 6:30 in Chicago, with meal service available at boarding. I think this may be what the Lakeshore also does. It is a good thing, since with an 8 PM departure, train 59's dinner service has always been kinda late for most people. They experimented with a fruit buffet for a while, then went back to the sit down meals, so it has been recognized as an issue. That's a good thing.

DL will not close down at Kankakee northbound and at Hammond southbound, as has been the case prior. Supposedly bumping post to bumping post. There will be no food service after either 10 or 11 PM, depending on who you listen to, that's a bad thing.

Question Unanswered: Will the two LSA employees rotate their breaks, or will there be periodic shutdowns en-route??

 

[Bosworth Johnson]

The Amfleet II Diner-Lite car didn't look any different than the pictures that I've seen of the one on the Cardinal, but it definately was staffed differently. With two SA's, one LSA, and one cook (or at least I assume that was his title, since he was basically dressed like a cook). Of course his cooking consisted of dropping ready made meals into convection ovens.

Maybe the dude dressed like a cook was Casey Ryback (from "Under Seige: Dark Territory")

 

[AlanB]

Cars 37002, 37003, 37004 arrived in New Orleans over the weekend, crew training was supposed to begin today.

Makes sense since all three cars were just released from Beech Grove on the 19th.

Oddly, 37001 was supposedly being shipped back to Beech Grove for unknown reasons. It had been here a while, but went out on train 58 Saturday (passing the other three cars in the swamps on the way).

Guess they want to make some additional changes to it based upon testing.

According to reports, train 59 will pre-board at 6:30 in Chicago, with meal service available at boarding. I think this may be what the Lakeshore also does. It is a good thing, since with an 8 PM departure, train 59's dinner service has always been kinda late for most people. They experimented with a fruit buffet for a while, then went back to the sit down meals, so it has been recognized as an issue. That's a good thing.

Well that would see passengers boarding a half an hour earlier than the do right now, as boarding for the CONO typically takes place between 7:00 and 7:15 PM out of the lounge.

The Lake Shore however doesn't do this at all now. They board the train around 8:00 to 8:15 PM out of the Metro Lounge for sleeping car pax only, but no meal is served. They only host a wine and cheese tasting in the Diner-Lite car for sleeping car pax from boarding till 10:00 PM or so.

DL will not close down at Kankakee northbound and at Hammond southbound, as has been the case prior. Supposedly bumping post to bumping post. There will be no food service after either 10 or 11 PM, depending on who you listen to, that's a bad thing.

This is good to hear and it's been one of the things that Emmett Fremuax has been working on system wide, the idea that dining cars and cafe cars can't be open upon departure from the originating station and that far too many close an hour or more before arrival at the ending bumper block. My general observations indicate that he has by and large suceeded in this goal on the NEC, so I guess that he's now focusing his attention on other trains.

As for closing by 10:00 PM, I would say that might be too early. I could understand 11:00 PM though. And even with two LSA's, I would think that 11:00 is late enough. If they have to open for breakfast by 6:00 or 6:30 AM, then I think that 11 makes the day plenty long enough for them already. While I do expect crews to do their jobs, I also don't expect them to kill themselves either. They do need some sleep and time for themselves.

 

[TVRM610]

Can anyone else confirm the new timetable info? I am mostly curious about the Coast Starlight upgrade, is this really happening?

It sounds to me that the Diner Lite is being run just like the SDS diners on the Lake Shore. I rode the Lake Shore this summer and they had an LSA, two servers, and a "chef." The only real difference between that and what they are doing now is the different car layout, and the Diner Lite menu.

I do think that you should be able to substitute an apatizer for an entree if you want too.. typical amtrak policy. (Wouldnt an Amtrak Apatizer dish cost less or at least equal to an entree?).

 

[Steven B]

I just got the new timetable. Here's what it says about the Coast Starlight:

"Coming in Spring of 2008 - Step aboard the Coast Starlight as we celebrate the re-launching of our premiere West Coast train. Returning it to its days of glory, the Coast Starlight will emerge with new services, amenities and feature newly refurbished Pacific Parlor Cars. Sleeping passengers will be treated to additional amenities, regional wine tasting, entertainment venues and exciting new dining options. Coach passengers will enjoy expanded entertainment in the lounge, plus new food and beverage options such as 'at seat' meal service."

There's also a new press release on Amtrak.com about the dining service on the City of New Orleans. You've gotta hand it to the Amtrak marketing people -- they actually make the dining changes sound quite appealing:

"A new food service car -- called the "Cross Country Café" -- offers a menu that includes Red Beans & Rice, Jambalaya, Bread Pudding Pie, pre-departure dining an hour before the train leaves Chicago each night, lounge service for casual food and beverages until the late evening and continuous food service the next day."

 

[had8ley]

There's also a new press release on Amtrak.com about the dining service on the City of New Orleans. You've gotta hand it to the Amtrak marketing people -- they actually make the dining changes sound quite appealing:"A new food service car -- called the "Cross Country Café" -- offers a menu that includes Red Beans & Rice, Jambalaya, Bread Pudding Pie, pre-departure dining an hour before the train leaves Chicago each night, lounge service for casual food and beverages until the late evening and continuous food service the next day."

Well at least they are trying. From what I saw two weeks ago there was a distinct need to freshen up this train. If it's red beans and rice so be it. It sure beats "we don't have that anymore" or half frozen entrees they served when SDS first came out. Remember that they are catering to the food that people who ride this train like and are used to. Tourists usually enjoy trying the food of a regional area especially when it comes to New Orleans food. My only concern is how is the commissary in Chicago going to find a good red beans and rice chef?

 

[wayman]

My only concern is how is the commissary in Chicago going to find a good red beans and rice chef?

Not quite red beans and rice (more jambalaya and johnny cakes and fried green tomatoes), but they should try to hire someone from Dixie Kitchen and Bait Shop. 52nd & Harper (Metra University Park to 53rd St), very well worth a visit next time you're in Chicago. Best real southern cooking I've had north of Alabama.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight]

My only concern is how is the commissary in Chicago going to find a good red beans and rice chef?

Well for information purposes, the chef on that train would be a NOL crewbase employee. Unless things have changed without my knowledge, that train is handled entirely by NOL's OBS crewbase. Now whether he/she can be a "good red beans and rice" chef, that is a different story.... LOL. The "Crescent" on the other hand still is has its diner staffed out of NYC's crewbase with the lounge and train attendants still staffed out of NOL's crewbase.

I was told the other day over here on the FL trains that #92 (Silver Star) is going to operate later out of MIA after January, and not at the schedule change as planned (though I didn't see anything published on this). Seems as if CSX doesn't want the schedules changed yet as they will be doing some major track projects down in the TPA-LAK area. OBS gone freight...

 

[TVRM610]

Thanks, good to know the Coast Starlight is really happening! I can't wait to ride it & the Empire Builder this Summer!

As for finding a good Red Beans and Rice Chef, I don't think Diner Lite is going to have any actual "chefs" most of the meals are going to prepared just like they have been. Now perhaps something like red beans and rice could be cooked up in a big pot before dinner, but I kinda doubt that Amtrak is going to do that. I have heard that made to order steaks are possible in Diner Lite though so who knows.

Either way, I'm all for regional foods brought back to amtrak! Even if I'm not really for Diner Lite.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

#92 (Silver Star) is going to operate later out of MIA after January,

For purely selfish reasons I hope you're right - if it's a couple hours later out of MIA, it'll mean we can do day trips from the Orlando area to Tampa and back again. When they had the original schedule change that added the dog-leg to TPA on to 91/92, it gave us most of the day in TPA and we could go over, get lunch at the Columbia restaurant in Ybor City, or visit the Aquarium, or the WW-II Victory Ship, and then catch 92 to come home. We were even scheming how to get over to Clearwater Beach for a couple of hours and still get back in time for 92, using the Tampa/St.Pete-Clearwater bus systems, making a transfer at Tampa Int'l airport. But then they changed the 01/92 schedules to where you're lucky if you can just get all the way to TPA and still be able to catch 92 back. So we'll be looking to that proposed schedule change with much anticipation! That might be reason enough to get the Florida Rsident Railpasses again next year. When they canceled Sunset E. of NOL we stopped getting the Railpass because that cut a big chunk of available track mileage from the Pass but they didn't lower the price accordingly.

 

[had8ley]

My only concern is how is the commissary in Chicago going to find a good red beans and rice chef?

Well for information purposes, the chef on that train would be a NOL crewbase employee. Unless things have changed without my knowledge, that train is handled entirely by NOL's OBS crewbase. Now whether he/she can be a "good red beans and rice" chef, that is a different story.... LOL. The "Crescent" on the other hand still is has its diner staffed out of NYC's crewbase with the lounge and train attendants still staffed out of NOL's crewbase.

I was told the other day over here on the FL trains that #92 (Silver Star) is going to operate later out of MIA after January, and not at the schedule change as planned (though I didn't see anything published on this). Seems as if CSX doesn't want the schedules changed yet as they will be doing some major track projects down in the TPA-LAK area. OBS gone freight...

Yes, you are absolutely correct about the crew bases. The only point I am trying to make is; with SDS everything (almost) is pre-made and only needs to be heated up. I was in the galley 0f #58 a couple of weeks ago and the French Toast comes in a cardboard box with a plastic bag that holds a hundred or more pieces. Only thing I can see here is the New Orleans chef groning when he has to heat up Chicago's version of red beans and rice. Kinda like a New Orleans chef trying to duplicate Giordano's pizza~ it ain't gonna happen...

 

[battalion51]

OK, speaking as someone who has some experience in quantity food production, it's very challenging to create foods in mass, and then store them cooked, and pull them out and reheat them and have them be fresh like it's straight of the grill. There will never be a true substitute for fresh cooked items. But sometime economics places you in interesting situations.

 

[TVRM610]

OK, speaking as someone who has some experience in quantity food production, it's very challenging to create foods in mass, and then store them cooked, and pull them out and reheat them and have them be fresh like it's straight of the grill. There will never be a true substitute for fresh cooked items. But sometime economics places you in interesting situations.

Yes, but Amtrak has proven to me that it CAN be done. I have had many SDS meals that are very good, and some that were terrible. Alot still depends on who is preparing the food, and how fast the servers get it to you. Some entre's are better than others as well. While I agree fresh cooked food would be the best, this has not been the case on amtrak for years even before SDS went into effect. (other than a few select items i.e. steak).

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee gone freight]

My only concern is how is the commissary in Chicago going to find a good red beans and rice chef?

Well for information purposes, the chef on that train would be a NOL crewbase employee. Unless things have changed without my knowledge, that train is handled entirely by NOL's OBS crewbase. Now whether he/she can be a "good red beans and rice" chef, that is a different story.... LOL. The "Crescent" on the other hand still is has its diner staffed out of NYC's crewbase with the lounge and train attendants still staffed out of NOL's crewbase.

I was told the other day over here on the FL trains that #92 (Silver Star) is going to operate later out of MIA after January, and not at the schedule change as planned (though I didn't see anything published on this). Seems as if CSX doesn't want the schedules changed yet as they will be doing some major track projects down in the TPA-LAK area. OBS gone freight...

Yes, you are absolutely correct about the crew bases. The only point I am trying to make is; with SDS everything (almost) is pre-made and only needs to be heated up. I was in the galley 0f #58 a couple of weeks ago and the French Toast comes in a cardboard box with a plastic bag that holds a hundred or more pieces. Only thing I can see here is the New Orleans chef groning when he has to heat up Chicago's version of red beans and rice. Kinda like a New Orleans chef trying to duplicate Giordano's pizza~ it ain't gonna happen...

Ahhh... Ok point well taken... so true! :huh: :lol: OBS gone freight....

 

[Jon C]

'My only concern is how is the commissary in Chicago going to find a good red beans and rice chef?'

Well I guess your not too confident about the vast and diverse and excellent food palate of Chicago. Actually Chicago has quite a few establishments that could give any NOLA restaurant a good run for their money, by miles. I'm sure a decent 'red beans and rice' recipe can be found in Chicago and find its way to Amtrak. Actually a former NOLA landmark, Shanahan's Canjun Creole Caterer's, is now located in Chicago, Forest Park to be exact. I'm more than sure they would help Amtrak fine-tune a menu that would be suitable to its riders, like me. While I'm sure an Amtrak train would not be the 1st place I would expect to find the world's best red bean and rice, I would not under-estimate the culinary contribution that Chicago can make.

Jon C

 

[had8ley]

'My only concern is how is the commissary in Chicago going to find a good red beans and rice chef?'

Well I guess your not too confident about the vast and diverse and excellent food palate of Chicago. Actually Chicago has quite a few establishments that could give any NOLA restaurant a good run for their money, by miles. I'm sure a decent 'red beans and rice' recipe can be found in Chicago and find its way to Amtrak. Actually a former NOLA landmark, Shanahan's Canjun Creole Caterer's, is now located in Chicago, Forest Park to be exact. I'm more than sure they would help Amtrak fine-tune a menu that would be suitable to its riders, like me. While I'm sure an Amtrak train would not be the 1st place I would expect to find the world's best red bean and rice, I would not under-estimate the culinary contribution that Chicago can make.

Jon C

I think I predicated my statement by saying "At least they're trying." I had a five star lamb shank on #59 with outstanding service BUT this does not cover up the multi-million dollar material handling car fiasco nor the complete meltdown of the original SDS program. So what the heck; let's see what they come up with as far as the red beans go. People might come to ride just to eat the red beans and rice. Stranger things have happened; especially on Amtrak. I have no problems with Chicago chefs; au contraire, we have enjoyed many excellent meals in the Windy City.