New Talgos moving westward for testing

[jmx53]

Some other videos of the new trainset on the move:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxwYnumSJA4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe3ca8B6Yrk

 

[VentureForth]

Wow. Someone else has heard of Stan Freeburg! I have that song on my Android and will listen to it now.

It's funny - My first concern had nothing to do with functionality, but purely aesthetics. Others are concerned about functionalily. The thing is, when you board the train, you don't care what it looks like on the outside.

But again, I speak in the company of railfans. Many of the travelling public DO care about the external aesthetics of a train. What they see on the outside will set their perception of what is on the inside and determine their choice on whether or not they want to pay to find out. Most won't do a google image search of the inside of a talgo set prior to buying a ticket. If they see a hodgepodge of mixmatched equipment pulling into the station with varying equipment and perhaps an "incomplete" train with the cabbage missing, they may think twice.

The concept of "Uniform" is very important in business. A uniform delivers the promise of consistency. Whether the clothing that the employees wear are uniform, or whether the look of a product is uniform, the idea reflects consistency. Professionalism. Care to details. PRIDE IN THEIR PRODUCT.

I'm sure the comfort of the Talgos are very good. I hope that these new trainsets that we are paying lots of money for will convey that uniformity to the public. It IS our money, after all. Let's demand Amtrak does its BEST to get the most return for it.

 

[cirdan]

That is but one of many factors to be taken into consideration, and not the most important one apparently, given that most serious passenger operators in the world, specially of the higher speed kind and the suburban kind have evolved to use fixed consist sets. Apparently the costs and benefits work out in favor of fixed consists for whatever reason. Incidentally even where fixed consists are used, they can be modified and individual units within them replaced, but it is a somewhat more involved process.

It depends what you call a fixed consist.

Suburban operators across the world may have so-called "fixed-consist" sets, but in many cases they can combine these into longer trains. So in that respect they're not really fixed consist but it's just the ideal building block for a train that appears to be bigger than a single car.

The same with high-speed trains. Both ICE and TGV can are are run as coupled sets.

Spain even runs Talgos that way. Sometimes you see two or even three Talgos coupled and gangways/diaphragms providing connections between the sets. Sometimes these will be attached for only part of the journey. For example the Mare Nostrum Talgo from Montpellier to Cartagena will be a single Talgo set on a normal day but on holidays and other days with peak travel a second set will be attached at Barcelona and detached again at Alicante. The Talgo III type even had mini modules, which were baby sets consisting of as little as four Talgo cars, available to strengthen other trains as required.

 

[PerRock]

Wow. Someone else has heard of Stan Freeburg! I have that song on my Android and will listen to it now.

It's funny - My first concern had nothing to do with functionality, but purely aesthetics. Others are concerned about functionalily. The thing is, when you board the train, you don't care what it looks like on the outside.

But again, I speak in the company of railfans. Many of the travelling public DO care about the external aesthetics of a train. What they see on the outside will set their perception of what is on the inside and determine their choice on whether or not they want to pay to find out. Most won't do a google image search of the inside of a talgo set prior to buying a ticket. If they see a hodgepodge of mixmatched equipment pulling into the station with varying equipment and perhaps an "incomplete" train with the cabbage missing, they may think twice.

The concept of "Uniform" is very important in business. A uniform delivers the promise of consistency. Whether the clothing that the employees wear are uniform, or whether the look of a product is uniform, the idea reflects consistency. Professionalism. Care to details. PRIDE IN THEIR PRODUCT.

I'm sure the comfort of the Talgos are very good. I hope that these new trainsets that we are paying lots of money for will convey that uniformity to the public. It IS our money, after all. Let's demand Amtrak does its BEST to get the most return for it.

If anything, I would think that the Talgos are the lease hodge-podge mixed up consists on Amtrak's system. Them and the Acela. Normally speaking the Talgos run with a Cascades-painted F59PHI, followed by a fixed consists (in cascades colors), then an Cascades painted F40 NPCU. Amtrak even went to the trouble to designing and attaching fins to the end cars to make the transition between the tall engines and the short cars more pleasing to the eye.

If you want to go off about mixed up consists you should see the long distance trains out east, those are not consistant.

peter

 

[cirdan]

Here we even see two different generations coupled in one train.

Talgo III set coupled to Talgo Pendular set

 

[VentureForth]

Wow. Someone else has heard of Stan Freeburg! I have that song on my Android and will listen to it now.

It's funny - My first concern had nothing to do with functionality, but purely aesthetics. Others are concerned about functionalily. The thing is, when you board the train, you don't care what it looks like on the outside.

But again, I speak in the company of railfans. Many of the travelling public DO care about the external aesthetics of a train. What they see on the outside will set their perception of what is on the inside and determine their choice on whether or not they want to pay to find out. Most won't do a google image search of the inside of a talgo set prior to buying a ticket. If they see a hodgepodge of mixmatched equipment pulling into the station with varying equipment and perhaps an "incomplete" train with the cabbage missing, they may think twice.

The concept of "Uniform" is very important in business. A uniform delivers the promise of consistency. Whether the clothing that the employees wear are uniform, or whether the look of a product is uniform, the idea reflects consistency. Professionalism. Care to details. PRIDE IN THEIR PRODUCT.

I'm sure the comfort of the Talgos are very good. I hope that these new trainsets that we are paying lots of money for will convey that uniformity to the public. It IS our money, after all. Let's demand Amtrak does its BEST to get the most return for it.

If anything, I would think that the Talgos are the lease hodge-podge mixed up consists on Amtrak's system. Them and the Acela. Normally speaking the Talgos run with a Cascades-painted F59PHI, followed by a fixed consists (in cascades colors), then an Cascades painted F40 NPCU. Amtrak even went to the trouble to designing and attaching fins to the end cars to make the transition between the tall engines and the short cars more pleasing to the eye.

If you want to go off about mixed up consists you should see the long distance trains out east, those are not consistant.

peter

I have long shared my disdain for the aesthetic properties of ALL Amtrak trains - the only one that is decent is the non-reconfigurable, non-changable, non-lengthenable, Acela. The Autotrain looks the best, but honestly if they had the power and reliability, I'd rather see F59PHIs drive that train as they are a wee bit taller to match the Superliners. Once the Viewliner baggage and dining cars replace the heritage, then those trains will look better with the P42s, but still with that darn Cafe car in the middle with no end in sight for it. But it breaks up the Viewliners from the Amcans. Speaking of which, the Metroliner sets are (were?) really the 2nd most consistent looking set, followed by Pacific Surfliner (They got that thing RIGHT), AT, Superliners, corridor heritage trains. Talgo sets would be in 3rd if they could keep the same colors and the right locos together. But still, mixing F40 and a P42 is just, well, ick. I feel that way about the Hearland Flyer, too. Sorry.

 

[MattW]

Huh? The Cafe car in the east is just an Amfleet like the coaches. Other than the gap in the windows in the middle (why don't they let the Cafe attendant see out anyways?) it's identical to the coaches.The Heritage diners will go away around the same time as the Heritage baggage cars. So on your typical Crescent, you'd have 2 locos, 4 Viewliners, 5 Amfleets. That's fairly uniform except for the height difference in the P42 and Viewliners, and the Viewliners and Amfleet. Then hopefully the Viewliner order will be extended to make a coach/cafe order leaving the only mismatch to the front. Hrm, maybe they can extend the order even further and make a Viewliner locomotive!

 

[VentureForth]

DOH - You're right. For some reason, I was thinking they were like the heritage diners. My humblest apologies.

Hrm, maybe they can extend the order even further and make a Viewliner locomotive!

I thought that the P42's were close to Viewliner height and that the F59PHIs were close to Superliner height...

Like this PacSurf:

Can't find any pictures of a P42 next to a Viewliner because they don't normally do that. But for the record, the P42 is 14'4" and the Viewliner is 14'0. Both about two feet shorter than the 16' Superliner & F59PHI...

 

[afigg]

Huh? The Cafe car in the east is just an Amfleet like the coaches. Other than the gap in the windows in the middle (why don't they let the Cafe attendant see out anyways?) it's identical to the coaches.The Heritage diners will go away around the same time as the Heritage baggage cars. So on your typical Crescent, you'd have 2 locos, 4 Viewliners, 5 Amfleets. That's fairly uniform except for the height difference in the P42 and Viewliners, and the Viewliners and Amfleet. Then hopefully the Viewliner order will be extended to make a coach/cafe order leaving the only mismatch to the front. Hrm, maybe they can extend the order even further and make a Viewliner locomotive!

The Crescent would be a good candidate to get 3 Viewliner sleepers once most or all of the 25 new sleepers are delivered. So it would have a balance of 5 Viewliners and 5 Amfleet IIs. Maybe save a smidgen of fuel with less air drag from the more uniform set of Viewliners compared to a mixed Heritage baggage, Viewliners, Heritage diner set.

And yes, with any luck, in a few years the Am Iis will be replaced by Viewliner LD coach cars. Then posters will complain about how boring the uniform P-42 and all Viewliner consists are because you can't make everyone happy.

 

[Blackwolf]

The Crescent would be a good candidate to get 3 Viewliner sleepers once most or all of the 25 new sleepers are delivered. So it would have a balance of 5 Viewliners and 5 Amfleet IIs. Maybe save a smidgen of fuel with less air drag from the more uniform set of Viewliners compared to a mixed Heritage baggage, Viewliners, Heritage diner set.

And yes, with any luck, in a few years the Am Iis will be replaced by Viewliner LD coach cars. Then posters will complain about how boring the uniform P-42 and all Viewliner consists are because you can't make everyone happy.

Now only if they'd come up with a Viewliner bullet lounge for the tail car.... We'd have a modern Streamliner again! :giggle:

 

[jmx53]

HighIronofWisconsin·posted this video on Youtube:

The Talgo Milwaukee Story and Train Tour

In this 21-minute video, we get the story of Spanish high-speed train manufacturer Talgo's arrival in and imminent departure from Milwaukee, as well as a guided tour of one of the state-of-the-art Series 8 train sets they constructed for the Amtrak Cascades service in Oregon. Featuring interviews with Talgo CEO Antonio Perez and Milwaukee shop manager Gary Young, who also guides our tour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QfzqSc4L5Q0

Unfortunately no peek at the interior of the cab car.

So sad about the closing of this plant which appears to have put out a fine product. Hopefully Talgo will be able to open another plant in another state and get some more orders so they can rehire some of the workers!

 

[Swabian]

Huh? The Cafe car in the east is just an Amfleet like the coaches. Other than the gap in the windows in the middle (why don't they let the Cafe attendant see out anyways?) it's identical to the coaches.The Heritage diners will go away around the same time as the Heritage baggage cars. So on your typical Crescent, you'd have 2 locos, 4 Viewliners, 5 Amfleets. That's fairly uniform except for the height difference in the P42 and Viewliners, and the Viewliners and Amfleet. Then hopefully the Viewliner order will be extended to make a coach/cafe order leaving the only mismatch to the front. Hrm, maybe they can extend the order even further and make a Viewliner locomotive!

The attendant doesn't have a window because they need the wall space for merchandise and equipment. Money before aesthetics, at least for crew...

 

[Ryan]

On the side of the car with the attendant station, that's true. No reason that there can't be windows on the "hallway" side of the car. That, along with the upper level of windows would make a ViewCafe a much better experience than the lifeless cave of the current AmCafe cars.

 

[Trogdor]

Did dude just refer to tuning into a "record" at 9:50 in that video? Nothing says modern & state-of-the-art like listening to records!

 

[amtrakwolverine]

That cab is nothing more then a Truck cab on rails. The crew is at eye level with a gravel hauler that stuck on the tracks and the snout will go right under the trailer causing all the gravel to dump into the cab crushing the crew. That's protecting the crews lives how. They were safer being higher up in a real locomotive or cabbage f40.

 

[jmx53]

That cab is nothing more then a Truck cab on rails. The crew is at eye level with a gravel hauler that stuck on the tracks and the snout will go right under the trailer causing all the gravel to dump into the cab crushing the crew. That's protecting the crews lives how. They were safer being higher up in a real locomotive or cabbage f40.

I Emailed the Oregon Dept of Transportation regarding exactly this. See post #38 in this thread for the complete response I got, but the gist of what they said about this specific issue is that Amtrak is considering the continued use of the F40 NPCU for safety, and to avoid having to take the entire trainset out of service for repairs in the event of a grade collision,

 

[Eric S]

Did dude just refer to tuning into a "record" at 9:50 in that video? Nothing says modern & state-of-the-art like listening to records!

Clearly part of the upgrade from 1996 technology to 2012 technology referred to at the beginning of the video. :giggle:

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I know it's off-topic, but when are the first Viewliner IIs going to be delivered and enter service?

 

[Nathanael]

Now only if they'd come up with a Viewliner bullet lounge for the tail car.... We'd have a modern Streamliner again! :giggle:

I want! I think that's very unlikely, though; the 'bullet' shape apparently doesn't really help the train's aerodynamics much, and it's very inconvenient not to be able to hook extra cars behind it. I do think a future Viewliner lounge should have curved roof windows like the Superliner Sightseer Lounges, however.

I know it's off-topic, but when are the first Viewliner IIs going to be delivered and enter service?

Nobody outside CAF and Amtrak knows for sure. "2013" is still the prediction, which is pretty vague. I'm sure they'll make a big announcement.

 

[jis]

I figure if a test car headed for Pueblo does not materialize in the first 4 months of 2013, then there would be significant doubt that anything significant will actually get deployed in 2013.

 

[jmx53]

It doesn't have the date it was posted, but on the Oregon Dept. of Transportation website it now says:

"They passed the tests!
Oregon's new Talgo trainsets passed the rigorous testing they've been going through the past few months at TTCI in Pueblo, Colo. The trains will soon travel to Seattle for the next stop: corridor testing and employee familiarization"

http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/COMM/pages/talgohome.aspx

Also on this page, there is a link on the right for a .PDF of the Jan 2013 Trains Magazine article about the Talgos and the plant in Milwaukee.

 

[CHamilton]

All Aboard Washington on Facebook:

Info that we have is that the new Oregon owned Talgos will be on the move to the NW. ODOT1 is supposed to leave the AAR testing center near Pueblo, CO on April 8 (tomorrow!) and arrive in Seattle about April 11. ODOT2 is supposed to leave Milwaukee about April 15. Testing will then be done in the NW corridor and the equipment will go into service this summer. ODOT2 is planned to be on display at National Train Day festivities in Portland on May 11.

 

[jmx53]

All Aboard Washington on Facebook:



Info that we have is that the new Oregon owned Talgos will be on the move to the NW. ODOT1 is supposed to leave the AAR testing center near Pueblo, CO on April 8 (tomorrow!) and arrive in Seattle about April 11. ODOT2 is supposed to leave Milwaukee about April 15. Testing will then be done in the NW corridor and the equipment will go into service this summer. ODOT2 is planned to be on display at National Train Day festivities in Portland on May 11.

Thanks for the heads up...hopefully someone will get some pics when they are enroute.

ODOT will be having a contest to name the trainsets...click on the link in my post#96 of this thread for more info. My suggestions will be Mt. Jefferson and Mt. Mazama (Better known as Crater Lake)

 

[CHamilton]

From All Aboard Washington on Facebook:

One of the Oregon Talgo Sets on the move to the Pacific Northwest. This picture is in Colorado via the California Zephyr route, then via the Coast Starlight. Train number is 984(14) SAC-SEA. Follows 14(14) from SAC.

 

[tomfuller]

Has anyone seen this Talgo trainset in Oregon (or Washington)?

I did vote for my favored "Mounts" in Oregon. I did not vote for Mt. Bachelor since the only rail line you can see it from is the BNSF line near Bend.

I voted for Mt. Jefferson and Mt. Thielsen. I wished that I had the chance to vote for Mt. Ray which I have climbed to the top of (7002 ft.) Mt. Washington should have been included (7794 ft.)